Gutey or Rodgers?

[Isherwood]

4 hours ago, R T said:

We have very differing opinions here. I think if Rodgers would of focused more on being the best QB he could be rather than who the 5th WR should be on the roster, maybe he wouldn't of wasted several years of his career. The fact that from 2017-2019 he coasted along content hovering around a top 10 QB in the league, compared to 2020 when Love is drafted and he found motivation again to be great. Why wasn't putting in the effort in other off seasons? Why did it take drafting Love to motivate him? James Jones after the draft even called the MVP would happen because Rodgers told him how driven he was. Maybe Rodgers should just try and be the best QB Rodgers can be and stop worrying about doing the job of everyone else.   

Correct

[Green19]

4 hours ago, Toddfather said:

Let me take a step back... I am all about the Packers and if it really gets down to it... We part ways with 12. That being said, you don't get to these points and not explore why you are at these points. I think this is a very much bigger picture issue. I also feel a lot of people want to view it under a microscope... I don't think this is Gutey alone. I think this is TT, and even MM. 12 has watched people leave he felt he could still win with. Whether that is true or not doesn't remove your HOF QB a part of the conversation. From the obvious of Jordy to Cobb, I will make this point... I don't think I have heard him speak of a defensive player in the kindest regard other than Woodson. IMO, and its just my opinion at this time I would think he was even pissed Wood wasn't on that 2014 team. This has been building and building for a long time. If you were one of the best as what you did, and your company, management team never checked in... How would you feel? I'm not saying its on purpose, but maybe.. just maybe Green Bay being "old school" doesn't work anymore in todays' NFL. Maybe it's time in some ways to have someone who can communicate like an owner of an NFL franchise. 

The only thing I would agree in communication wise is Gute and Murph needed to call Rodgers before taking Love. I think given the round and everything they needed to understand the public fire storm that would come and how difficult that would be for Rodgers. Other than that any hurt feelings for Rodgers feels just childish.

I guess my issue with situations like this and Favre, is all of us try to relate this back to just a regular employee vs management issue at your typical office. But this is anything but typical. There are only 32 of these positions in the world.

At the end of the day I think it’s moronic what Rodgers is doing, because his goal is to achieve something he can’t in the sport/industry, control and guarantee outcome (my point to how this isn’t like just a normal office job). He doesnt want to be thrown out by GB on GBs timeline, he wants to say when it’s done. But to what end? Does anyone here really think this upcoming season he has a better shot winning a championship somewhere else given the limited pool of teams likely interested... along with the ones he’d be willing to report to?

And to a greater point does it really matter when that ball drops? If the plan is to play until let’s say age 43... does it really matter when within those next 5 years GB wants to move on? Playing football is playing football, at some point it will be in a new city with new teammates. Why does Rodger need to control when that happens? What does he have to gain from that control? A better chance at a championship? So far he is 1/16, betting odds say he isn’t getting another one.

[squire12]

6 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

Damn, I think you summarized the underlying, intrinsic, deeper-level issues driving his behavior quite nicely.  I said a few days ago that Gute needs a QB whisperer on staff.  Someone that not only can read the tea leaves, but can use this knowledge to effectively micro-manage unique situations.  Some players require more pampering than others.  To say, “we will treat every player the same because we don’t believe in special treatment” is short-sided.  The best Teachers in the land don’t teach that way, nor should football GM’s manage their personnel as such.  GB’s structure - for better and worse - doesn’t really have that owner/player bond, and here we are.

The guy is in his mid 30's, not elementary school

[squire12]

5 hours ago, Toddfather said:

Let me take a step back... I am all about the Packers and if it really gets down to it... We part ways with 12. That being said, you don't get to these points and not explore why you are at these points. I think this is a very much bigger picture issue. I also feel a lot of people want to view it under a microscope... I don't think this is Gutey alone. I think this is TT, and even MM. 12 has watched people leave he felt he could still win with. Whether that is true or not doesn't remove your HOF QB a part of the conversation. From the obvious of Jordy to Cobb, I will make this point... I don't think I have heard him speak of a defensive player in the kindest regard other than Woodson. IMO, and its just my opinion at this time I would think he was even pissed Wood wasn't on that 2014 team. This has been building and building for a long time. If you were one of the best as what you did, and your company, management team never checked in... How would you feel? I'm not saying its on purpose, but maybe.. just maybe Green Bay being "old school" doesn't work anymore in todays' NFL. Maybe it's time in some ways to have someone who can communicate like an owner of an NFL franchise. 

You really think Rodgers wants 50 to 100 texts/ phone calls from Gutekunst/ the front office on all roster move decisions?

If he wants a say in a few of his favorite and buddies, then he also needs to give input on everyone.

Send him an hour film clip on 5 UDFA tryout players for him to give his input on.

[Sasquatch]

2 hours ago, squire12 said:

The guy is in his mid 30's, not elementary school

I'm not at all surprised you read "teacher" and your first thought is "elementary school".  

Gute himself has admitted he wishes he had communicated with AR more effectively, but you seem to know better, smh.

[skibrett15]

13 hours ago, squire12 said:

So are the owners paying more for players overall?

If QB are getting more, then some players are getting less, why would those players sign off on that in a CBA?

 

qbs are getting less cash but count as the same or greater cash, all other positions get MORE cash (by the same amount that the qbs get less).  The owners pay exactly the same.

 

It's a redistribution of wealth from qbs to other positions, while making it harder to be competitive cap-wise with an expensive QB.

[squire12]

9 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

I'm not at all surprised you read "teacher" and your first thought is "elementary school".  

Gute himself has admitted he wishes he had communicated with AR more effectively, but you seem to know better, smh.

ohhh a nice shot.  

 

Is Gutekunst a teacher, or is he the principal of the school?

[squire12]

Just now, skibrett15 said:

qbs are getting less cash but count as the same or greater cash, all other positions get MORE cash (by the same amount that the qbs get less).  The owners pay exactly the same.

 

It's a redistribution of wealth from qbs to other positions, while making it harder to be competitive cap-wise with an expensive QB.

why would QB's want less cash?

[Sasquatch]

5 minutes ago, squire12 said:

ohhh a nice shot.  

 

Is Gutekunst a teacher, or is he the principal of the school?

Is Gute wrong for doubting himself?

[skibrett15]

1 minute ago, squire12 said:

why would QB's want less cash?

i mean, it's a though experiment right?

It's not that they want less cash, but if a rule was in place ilke this to suppress QB salaries by making their cap hit count 1.5x or 2x or w/e, then their salaries would be lower right?  It would create actual competition and free agency for the QB position similar to other positions.

From the NFLPA, their player pool makes the same amount - qbs take a pay cut and everyone else gets a small pay raise.

[R T]

10 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

Is Gute wrong for doubting himself?

Is he really doubting himself or just shouldering blame for just doing his job, taking blame for the sake of keeping everything together when guilty of nothing. Incredible selfless act on his part. 

[Kepler]

I just really bristle at the idea of another employee getting special treatment in those kind of ways. Rodgers, and capitalism in general, are already rewarded with better pay for better play (work). That's how it works. 

Also who decides how much input on company decisions is enough/not enough? What if the employee disagrees with that decision? What kind of stats or how many SB wins allows for how much input from said employee?

 

[Sasquatch]

1 minute ago, R T said:

Is he really doubting himself or just shouldering blame for just doing his job, taking blame for the sake of keeping everything together when guilty of nothing. Incredible selfless act on his part. 

I agree it’s a selfless act on Gute’s part, yet some here think it’s a one-shoe fits all mentality when dealing with players.  Nobody is saying you need to include star players on every business decision.  What many are saying - including Gute - is it’s important to know when to insert certain players into a conversation about the direction a team is going.

[squire12]

24 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

Is Gute wrong for doubting himself?

not wrong, but I just have a hard time defining the line on where and what players need to know on other roster moves.  

[Sasquatch]

6 minutes ago, Kepler said:

I just really bristle at the idea of another employee getting special treatment in those kind of ways. Rodgers, and capitalism in general, are already rewarded with better pay for better play (work). That's how it works. 

Also who decides how much input on company decisions is enough/not enough? What if the employee disagrees with that decision? What kind of stats or how many SB wins allows for how much input from said employee?

 

Don’t think of it in terms of special treatment.  Think of it in terms of individual player management.  Gute doesn’t have to ask Rodgers if he likes his decisions, or even give Rodgers a say in the matter.  What Gute admitted to was improved communications.

Gute doesn’t make decisions in a vacuum, but if you’re not considering fallout of management decisions and taking preemptive steps to mitigate damage, then there’s lessons to be learned.