Jeremy408 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 18 minutes ago, NYRaider said: In 2018 before acquiring Cooper the Cowboys were 3-4, after acquiring him they finished 10-6. Dak before Cooper (7 games): 128/206 (62% comp), 1,417 yards (202 ypg), 8 TD, 4 INT Dak after Cooper (9 games) 228/320 (71% comp), 2,468 yards (274 ypg), 14 TD, 4 INT In 39 career games without Cooper: 747/1,155 (64% comp), 8,408 yards (215 ypg), 53 TD, 21 INT [Offense: 23.5 ppg] In 30 career games with Cooper: 767/1,038 (73% comp), 9,226 yards (307 ypg), 53 TD, 19 INT [Offense: 26.5 ppg] See the issue with the stats is that they require context. Here's what I mean: 2018 Dak before Cooper (7 games) CAR 18th in passing yards allowed NYG 23rd in passing yards allowed SEA 22nd in passing yards allowed DET 8th in passing yards allowed HOU 28th in passing yards allowed JAX 2nd in passing yards allowed WAS 15th in passing yards allowed Dak after Cooper (9 games) TEN 6th in passing yards allowed PHI 30th in passing yards allowed ATL 27th in passing yards allowed WAS 15th(important to note that is the third string quarterback started this game) NO 29th in passing yards allowed(The Cowboys as a scored 10 points in this game) PHI 30th in passing yards allowed IND 21st in passing yards allowed(the Cowboys didn't score 1 point in this game) TB 26th in passing yards allowed NYG 23rd in passing yards allowed So when you look at 2018 you actually see that after they got Amari Cooper they played one team that had a top 10 passing defense and one team that had a top 15 passing defense(playing a third string quarterback) every other team they played we're bottom 7 in passing defense(except for the Colts who were 21st in passing the fence and shut them out). That's Cooper Cooper in a nutshell. He does well against garbage defenses but when he hast to play good defenses or an average defense that may have a shut down corner he's JAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 21 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Jerry Jones has been known to make splash/sexy picks throughout his time with the Cowboys. Again, no one expected Lamb to be on the board when the Cowboys were picking and I'm sure he was their highest rated player available. How well did that pick work out for them this season? I don't understand your question here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 Just now, Jeremy408 said: See the issue with the stats is that they require context. Here's what I mean: How do you explain that over a 30 game vs 39 game sample size Dak's yards per game increased by almost 100 ypg, his TD's per game increased by almost 0.5, and his completion % increased by almost 10%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said: I don't understand your question here Did the Cowboys investing their 1st round pick into another WR work out well from this season? Or did they allow like 500 points and finish with a losing record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 20 minutes ago, NYRaider said: How do you explain that over a 30 game vs 39 game sample size Dak's yards per game increased by almost 100 ypg, his TD's per game increased by almost 0.5, and his completion % increased by almost 10%? Let's look at the teams they played So we've already done 2018 lets look at 2019 NYG 28th in Passing yards(went on to pick fourth overall)(through for 400 yards and four touchdowns in this game) WSH 18th in passing yards(Went on to pick second overall) MIA 26th in Passing yards(went on to pick fifth overall) NO 20th in Passing yards(had zero touchdowns in one interception) GB 14th in Passing yards(they didn't really start scoring until a garbage time situation when the game was out of reach and ended up throwing 463 yards two touchdowns and three interceptions) NYJ 17th in Passing yards(threw 0 touchdowns and less than 300 yards on 40 attempts) PHI 19th in Passing yards NYG 28th in Passing yards(went on to pick fifth overall) MIN 15th in Passing yards( They cut Xavier Rhodes after this season which should tell you enough) DET 32nd(Last) in Passing yards(went on to pick third overall) NE 2nd in Passing yards(offense is a whole put up nine points Cooper put up zero catches) BUF 4th in Passing yards(another game where Prescott puts up numbers after the game was basically over) CHI 9th in passing yards(this was another garbage time game we are numbers were put up after the game was already over) LAR 12th in passing yards PHI 19th in Passing yards(threw 0 touchdowns on 44 attempts) WSH 18th in passing yards(by this time the Head coach was fired and they went on to pick second overall in the draft) (threw 3 TDs in this game) So we can see that they played four of the five teams picking in the top five(2 of those teams twice) On the flipside when he asked to play good defenses he doesn't do very well only putting up numbers in garbage time situations when the game is practically over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said: Let's look at the teams they played Dak's numbers legitimately improved leaps and bounds after they added Cooper he went from more of a game manager to one of the most productive passers in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: In 2018 before acquiring Cooper the Cowboys were 3-4, after acquiring him they finished 10-6. Dak before Cooper (7 games): 128/206 (62% comp), 1,417 yards (202 ypg), 8 TD, 4 INT Dak after Cooper (9 games) 228/320 (71% comp), 2,468 yards (274 ypg), 14 TD, 4 INT In 39 career games without Cooper: 747/1,155 (64% comp), 8,408 yards (215 ypg), 53 TD, 21 INT [Offense: 23.5 ppg] In 30 career games with Cooper: 767/1,038 (73% comp), 9,226 yards (307 ypg), 53 TD, 19 INT [Offense: 26.5 ppg] There's one thing being overlooked though. Prior to Cooper, who were the 3 WRs he was throwing to most? Beasley, Gallup, and....? Allen Hurns? Nobody is making the argument that Cooper is a fringe roster player. Naturally, adding a decent WR opens up room for other legit WRs like Beasley and Gallup. That was even further the case when the big 3 were Cooper, Gallup, and Lamb. Of course Dak's stats improved. When Carr was throwing to Seth Roberts, we sucked. When our primary WR target was Nelson Agholor, Carr looked way better. Does that make Agholor a WR1 by default? Nope. He's probably a high end WR2 at best. We can't just overlook that the Cowboys top 3 WRs would be defacto starters on most teams in the NFL, and when you have that kind of situation, it would take a pitiful QB to not show statistical improvement. If people were saying Cooper was a WR3/4 and always fighting for a spot, sure, that would be ridiculous. But what people are saying is he's a pretty solid WR2 who benefits greatly from the talent around him. Look at it this way: Steve Breaston vs. Juju Smith-Schuster. When Arizona was rolling out Fitzgerald, Boldin, and Breaston, all 3 looked very solid. Obviously Fitz and Boldin were both honest to God WR1's. Breaston looked like a legit WR2, but once outside of that set, he didn't do much of anything. When Pittsburgh trotted out Bryant, Brown, and Smith-Schuster, they all looked pretty solid. Ditto, really, for Smith-Schuster, Claypool, and Johnson. Bryant and Johnson? Meh. But Smith-Schuster is a fairly highly regarded WR2. Amari Cooper isn't fool's gold like Breaston. IMO, he's more like Smith-Schuster. When playing alongside Brown (true WR1 talent) and Bryant (showed signs of being a legit WR2), he was able to look like a WR1 guy. When playing alongside Claypool and Johnson, he was still very good, but no longer viewed as a true WR1. He's still an asset to virtually any team in the league, still puts up good numbers, but is anyone taking him over the Browns and Claypools of the world, all things being equal? Nah. That's Cooper, to me. Good enough to look good when there's talent around him. But he's not the best of the bunch, even if he statistically outpaces them. He benefits/benefited a great amount from Gallup and Lamb and Beasley and the Cowboys run game. But is he a guy that will singlehandedly change a team's outlook like Adams or Brown or Hill or Thomas? Nope. Edited May 31, 2021 by ronjon1990 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 32 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: There's one thing being overlooked though. Prior to Cooper, who were the 3 WRs he was throwing to most? Beasley, Gallup, and....? Allen Hurns? Nobody is making the argument that Cooper is a fringe roster player. Naturally, adding a decent WR opens up room for other legit WRs like Beasley and Gallup. That was even further the case when the big 3 were Cooper, Gallup, and Lamb. Of course Dak's stats improved. When Carr was throwing to Seth Roberts, we sucked. When our primary WR target was Nelson Agholor, Carr looked way better. Does that make Agholor a WR1 by default? Nope. He's probably a high end WR2 at best. We can't just overlook that the Cowboys top 3 WRs would be defacto starters on most teams in the NFL, and when you have that kind of situation, it would take a pitiful QB to not show statistical improvement. If people were saying Cooper was a WR3/4 and always fighting for a spot, sure, that would be ridiculous. But what people are saying is he's a pretty solid WR2 who benefits greatly from the talent around him. Look at it this way: Steve Breaston vs. Juju Smith-Schuster. When Arizona was rolling out Fitzgerald, Boldin, and Breaston, all 3 looked very solid. Obviously Fitz and Boldin were both honest to God WR1's. Breaston looked like a legit WR2, but once outside of that set, he didn't do much of anything. When Pittsburgh trotted out Bryant, Brown, and Smith-Schuster, they all looked pretty solid. Ditto, really, for Smith-Schuster, Claypool, and Johnson. Bryant and Johnson? Meh. But Smith-Schuster is a fairly highly regarded WR2. Amari Cooper isn't fool's gold like Breaston. IMO, he's more like Smith-Schuster. When playing alongside Brown (true WR1 talent) and Bryant (showed signs of being a legit WR2), he was able to look like a WR1 guy. When playing alongside Claypool and Johnson, he was still very good, but no longer viewed as a true WR1. He's still an asset to virtually any team in the league, still puts up good numbers, but is anyone taking him over the Browns and Claypools of the world, all things being equal? Nah. That's Cooper, to me. Good enough to look good when there's talent around him. But he's not the best of the bunch, even if he statistically outpaces them. He benefits/benefited a great amount from Gallup and Lamb and Beasley and the Cowboys run game. But is he a guy that will singlehandedly change a team's outlook like Adams or Brown or Hill or Thomas? Nope. That’s all I’m saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 29 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: That's Cooper, to me. Good enough to look good when there's talent around him. But he's not the best of the bunch, even if he statistically outpaces them. He benefits/benefited a great amount from Gallup and Lamb and Beasley and the Cowboys run game. But is he a guy that will singlehandedly change a team's outlook like Adams or Brown or Hill or Thomas? Nope. Is Cooper a dominant 100+ catch WR? No. But he's still a consistent 1,000+ yard guy. Is that worth $20M APY, no of course not but the Cowboys weren't going to let him walk after they had just traded a 1st round pick for him with Dak in a contract year. But they were also smart in the way they structured his deal so they can move on from him whenever they want with very little dead cap over the next few off-seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 52 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Dak's numbers legitimately improved leaps and bounds after they added Cooper he went from more of a game manager to one of the most productive passers in the league. His schedule also got easier Which I showed was a key contribution to those numbers legitimately improving leaps and bounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 Just now, Jeremy408 said: His schedule also got easier Which I showed was a key contribution to those numbers legitimately improving leaps and bounds His schedule was much easier over 30 games than 39? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, NYRaider said: His schedule was much easier over 30 games than 39? Not sure what you’re asking here but I already showed you the teams he played and where they were in terms of passing Defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 Just now, Jeremy408 said: Not sure what you’re asking here but I already showed you the teams he played and where they were in terms of passing Defense. Was Dak Prescott a $40M APY QB before they acquired Cooper when he averaged 202 ypg with a 62% comp. Or did he become that after they acquired Cooper and he averaged over 300 ypg with a 73% comp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Was Dak Prescott a $40M APY QB before they acquired Cooper when he averaged 202 ypg with a 62% comp. Or did he become that after they acquired Cooper and he averaged over 300 ypg with a 73% comp? I don’t think he’s a 40 million are year quarterback now LOL. I don’t know where you got the 73% completion percentage he’s never even had 70% in a season. Ironically the highest completion percentage he ever had was his rookie year(67%). Already explained His yards per game spike When I showed the teams he played against after Cooper was acquired. on a sidenote I will never understand why our fan base want to trade Derek Carr who’s making less than 25 million a year or who’s had 70% completion percentage with lesser talent meanwhile people say the Dak who has never had 70% of his passes completed with better talent is a 40 mil a year QB lol crazy world we live in... Edited May 31, 2021 by Jeremy408 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 Just now, Jeremy408 said: I don’t think he’s a 40 million are year quarterback now LOL. I don’t know where you got the 73% completion percentage he’s never even had 70% in a season. Ironically the highest completion percentage he ever had was his rookie year(67%). Already explained His yards per game spike When I showed the teams he played against after Cooper was acquired. Dak is a good QB and his numbers increased once they acquired a real 1,000 yard WR in Cooper. He legit transformed his game from game manager to one of the most productive passers in the league. Either way the Cooper hate on here is hilarious. People say he's not a game changer like Davante Adams. Adams (7 seasons): 546 catches, 6,568 yards (12.0 YPC), 62 TD Cooper (6 seasons): 449 catches, 6,221 yards (13.8 ypc), 38 TD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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