2021 Baker thread

[NudeTayne]

1 hour ago, NateDawg said:

Yeah that’s not an endorsement but he’s also not throwing a guy under the bus or causing public drama. You don’t want him to lie but also not cause drama. Well played by Myles.

It was well played as far as Myles's public perception perhaps, but it felt a lot like a hedge. That's not good.

I would say if I had to black-white it that Myles is throwing Baker under the bus a bit. Even if the team traded Baker or he was gone after this year, what harm would it have done to just say he believes in Baker? Bad look for Myles IMO and came off disingenuous. I ABSOLUTELY expect my team's best player to tow the company line and back up the QB I don't like it.

3 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Eh... They asked if he believed in Baker and he said he believes in the Browns. Not a ringing endorsement.

Yeah, that wasn't good.

3 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

He is a DE though so his endorsement doesn't really mean anything anyway.

It doesn't, but he's Myles so it does.

3 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

It's more important what the coaches and front office thinks.

I'm sure the defense was frustrated with the offense late in the year (much like I'm sure the offense was frustrated with the defense early in the year and for the past several years).

This.

2 hours ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

he also said baker stuck by them so he sticks by baker, him saying he believes in the browns seems more to me that he says he believes the whole team is good enough to get to the playoffs

Yeah, I got this part out of it as well but don't like the obvious politicking.

 

[mtmmike]

8 hours ago, NudeTayne said:

It was well played as far as Myles's public perception perhaps, but it felt a lot like a hedge. That's not good.

I would say if I had to black-white it that Myles is throwing Baker under the bus a bit. Even if the team traded Baker or he was gone after this year, what harm would it have done to just say he believes in Baker? Bad look for Myles IMO and came off disingenuous. I ABSOLUTELY expect my team's best player to tow the company line and back up the QB I don't like it.

Yeah, that wasn't good.

It doesn't, but he's Myles so it does.

This.

Yeah, I got this part out of it as well but don't like the obvious politicking.

 

Myles better hope he is the answer 

If not and they draft a qb Myles

Will be the first person traded because he would be to old to be a cornerstone if we start over 

To say nothing about  Berry being gone Stefanski gone so on and so forth.

[NateDawg]

13 hours ago, NudeTayne said:

It was well played as far as Myles's public perception perhaps, but it felt a lot like a hedge. That's not good.

I would say if I had to black-white it that Myles is throwing Baker under the bus a bit. Even if the team traded Baker or he was gone after this year, what harm would it have done to just say he believes in Baker? Bad look for Myles IMO and came off disingenuous. I ABSOLUTELY expect my team's best player to tow the company line and back up the QB I don't like it.

Would we rather that Myles hedged his bets a little bit or that he went for the chin and threw Mayfield under the bus though? After this past season, I’m not sure you are going to see people from the locker room that are all-in thinking Mayfield is a franchise quarterback. All indications are that there is some tension in that regard. Whether or not we like it, I don’t think we are going to see stronger endorsements of Mayfield coming from that locker room right now. Also, this Browns team did have a playoff caliber defense that was one of the better defenses in the league by the end of the season. I can certainly understand some frustration from that perspective, so considering that his response was appropriate enough, I am good with it personally. Obviously we know the health circumstances, but when it comes down to it, the reason this wasn’t a contender was the passing game. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by NateDawg

[NudeTayne]

27 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

Would we rather that Myles hedged his bets a little bit or that he went for the chin and threw Mayfield under the bus though? After this past season, I’m not sure you are going to see people from the locker room that are all and thinking Mayfield is a franchise quarterback. All indications are that there is some tension in that regard. Whether or not we like it, I don’t think we are going to see stronger endorsements of Mayfield coming from that locker room right now. Also, this Browns team did have a playoff caliber defense that was one of the better defenses in the league by the end of the season. I can certainly understand some frustration from that perspective, so considering that his response was appropriate enough, I am good with it personally. Obviously we know the health circumstances, but when it comes down to it, the reason this wasn’t a contender was the passing game. 

IMO this is a lot of words to say that there is no discipline on this team when it comes to behavior in the locker room. Putting last year on Baker and not Stef is the weirdest thing. Stef could have benched him. Baker playing that injured should affect his perception around 0%. Putting Baker in over and over to do the same thing 100% falls on Stef. Any other team and we wouldn't be having this conversation about the injured quarterback IMO. 

Something tells me that the players don't want to go there yet--throwing the HC under the bus is generally the beginning of dominos falling toward a cleaning of house--but that this stuff is actually aimed at Stef. I'm very unimpressed with Mr. PC. Even if Baker ends up traded or not, I don't have much faith left in Stef. There is an underachieving, spoiled kid energy in our locker room. This coming season is gonna be interesting.

Also, I am about 25% sold that out defense is actually a contender for a top unit. The eyeball test says we get no pass rush when it matters and get bailed out by coverage. That's good and all but doesn't look like a menace of a unit at all. If Myles or Denzel go down for a while it looks like we wouldn't be very good. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll see.  

Edited February 27, 2022 by NudeTayne

[NateDawg]

1 hour ago, NudeTayne said:

IMO this is a lot of words to say that there is no discipline on this team when it comes to behavior in the locker room. Putting last year on Baker and not Stef is the weirdest thing. Stef could have benched him. Baker playing that injured should affect his perception around 0%. Putting Baker in over and over to do the same thing 100% falls on Stef. Any other team and we wouldn't be having this conversation about the injured quarterback IMO. 

Something tells me that the players don't want to go there yet--throwing the HC under the bus is generally the beginning of dominos falling toward a cleaning of house--but that this stuff is actually aimed at Stef. I'm very unimpressed with Mr. PC. Even if Baker ends up traded or not, I don't have much faith left in Stef. There is an underachieving, spoiled kid energy in our locker room. This coming season is gonna be interesting.

Also, I am about 25% sold that out defense is actually a contender for a top unit. The eyeball test says we get no pass rush when it matters and get bailed out by coverage. That's good and all but doesn't look like a menace of a unit at all. If Myles or Denzel go down for a while it looks like we wouldn't be very good. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll see.  

I hear you, but at the professional level where you are dealing with multi multi millionaires, I don’t think that locker room dynamic you are referring to is unique. I think this mindset would probably be going on with 32 different locker rooms at the professional level. 

As far as Stefanski, it was a really down year as far as playcalling. Really poorly done overall. I liked what I saw the first year though and he is a likable guy, so I’m not where you are with him. As far as benching Mayfield, I think there are a couple dynamics there. For starters, Mayfield wanted to play. Secondly, he was still the best we had, even while injured. You don’t want to punt on the season until it’s done. Thirdly, a decision to shelve your starting quarterback likely involves input from higher up than just the head coach also. Is a complex issue. Winning heals all wounds though. If Mayfield is healthy and plays well this season, people will move on. If he doesn’t, there is a clean break from both sides at that point I would imagine. At least publicly, I don’t think anything has been said that can’t be repaired and that’s important. What’s going on behind the scenes, I cannot say.

[NudeTayne]

1 hour ago, NateDawg said:

I hear you, but at the professional level where you are dealing with multi multi millionaires, I don’t think that locker room dynamic you are referring to is unique. I think this mindset would probably be going on with 32 different locker rooms at the professional level. 

So where is this mindset on the other 31 teams then? There are plenty of problems on other teams. The difference is that it isn't being aired out seemingly every week. The only place I saw it was with Urban Meyer. Players on Washington stood by Heineke. The Jets stood by their rookie disaster. I don't see the comparison.

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As far as Stefanski, it was a really down year as far as playcalling. Really poorly done overall. I liked what I saw the first year though and he is a likable guy, so I’m not where you are with him.

I honestly think there might be some "hot chick syndrome"--read: Brady Quinn montage--going on with Stefanski. He seems charismatic. He seems well put together. He's eloquent. That's all fine and dandy. His coaching hasn't impressed. I don't see it, but we'll see.

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As far as benching Mayfield, I think there are a couple dynamics there. For starters, Mayfield wanted to play. Secondly, he was still the best we had, even while injured. You don’t want to punt on the season until it’s done. Thirdly, a decision to shelve your starting quarterback likely involves input from higher up than just the head coach also. Is a complex issue.

You just made a lot of good points supporting why this is not about Baker but Stef. He made all these choices. He should be living with the fallout, which he is absolutely not. As far as Baker wanting to play, it's time to retire that one. It's just a terrible take IMO that keeps getting used as "evidence". 100% of players are gonna wanna play. It's on the coach to coach, which includes making the hard calls.

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Winning heals all wounds though. If Mayfield is healthy and plays well this season, people will move on. If he doesn’t, there is a clean break from both sides at that point I would imagine.

I personally don't think they will. I think even if he plays great this year, if he starts to struggle next year then it'll start back up again. It's Cleveland/confirmation bias stuff IMO.

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At least publicly, I don’t think anything has been said that can’t be repaired and that’s important. What’s going on behind the scenes, I cannot say.

This is an important point. It's been some PC vibes--read: disingenuous but at least positive--but no OBJ dad stuff from in the locker room, at least.

Edited February 27, 2022 by NudeTayne

[bruceb]

7 hours ago, NudeTayne said:

IMO this is a lot of words to say that there is no discipline on this team when it comes to behavior in the locker room

Not enough on the field, either.

Unforced error penalties often tripped us up this past season.

7 hours ago, NudeTayne said:

Also, I am about 25% sold that out defense is actually a contender for a top unit.

It's fluid, for sure.

If we keep Clowney, add some key pieces in FA or, more likely, the draft we are upper echelon.

7 hours ago, NudeTayne said:

Putting Baker in over and over to do the same thing 100% falls on Stef. Any other team and we wouldn't be having this conversation about the injured quarterback IMO.

This concerns me greatly.

Not exactly great leadership.

[buno67]

On 2/27/2022 at 1:26 PM, NudeTayne said:

Stef could have benched him. Baker playing that injured

he screwed up a lot of player decisions when it came to injuries. 

I think he mishandled the injuries to wils, Garrett, JOK, Baker, Hunt, andJarvis,

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

11 hours ago, buno67 said:

he screwed up a lot of player decisions when it came to injuries. 

I think he mishandled the injuries to wils, Garrett, JOK, Baker, Hunt, andJarvis,

I get your point, and I think it’s valid with Baker specifically, but isn’t that sort of the responsible of the training staff and players? 
 

If you’re hurt, you play.  If you’re injured you don’t.  If an established vet is telling me they’re good to go, and the training staff isn’t pumping the brakes, why tf wouldn’t the HC play them?

I get those guys looked like a shell of themselves, but they were all still better than their backups even hurt.

[JDD]

24 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I get your point, and I think it’s valid with Baker specifically, but isn’t that sort of the responsible of the training staff and players? 
 

If you’re hurt, you play.  If you’re injured you don’t.  If an established vet is telling me they’re good to go, and the training staff isn’t pumping the brakes, why tf wouldn’t the HC play them?

I get those guys looked like a shell of themselves, but they were all still better than their backups even hurt.

I think you are forgetting that logic has not place during silly season 

[big poppa pump]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I get your point, and I think it’s valid with Baker specifically, but isn’t that sort of the responsible of the training staff and players? 
 

If you’re hurt, you play.  If you’re injured you don’t.  If an established vet is telling me they’re good to go, and the training staff isn’t pumping the brakes, why tf wouldn’t the HC play them?

I get those guys looked like a shell of themselves, but they were all still better than their backups even hurt.

How can you accurately gauge whether a "hurt" player will play better than a "healthy" backup?  Isn't the "hurt" player continuing to exacerbate the injury while continuing to play?

 

I get it.  This isn't basketball where you can rest guys, or have load management, but holy hell....you need to be a little more aware of how badly your dudes are hurting.....(or actually injured)

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, big poppa pump said:

How can you accurately gauge whether a "hurt" player will play better than a "healthy" backup?  Isn't the "hurt" player continuing to exacerbate the injury while continuing to play?
 

I’m talking about just what we actually saw.

Hurt Wills was better than Hance or Hudson. Hurt Juice was better than whatever bumbass dude we were playing.  Hunt shouldn’t have played, DJ was fine.

1 minute ago, big poppa pump said:

I get it.  This isn't basketball where you can rest guys, or have load management, but holy hell....you need to be a little more aware of how badly your dudes are hurting.....(or actually injured)

I don’t disagree, but if we’re just using our gut there’s no real point in having a training staff five input I suppose.

At some point you have to trust the people you hire and delegate to.

[MSURacerDT55]

*Random thought*

As cut and dry as I have been about Baker, do I think he has it in him to get it right? My gut says yes, he's a fighter 

Edited March 5, 2022 by MSURacerDT55

[buno67]

On 3/2/2022 at 10:34 AM, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Hurt Wills was better than Hance or Hudson. Hurt Juice was better than whatever bumbass dude we were playing.  Hunt shouldn’t have played, DJ was fine.

It’s not about just that, it’s also about letting the player to heal up so they are healthier the rest of the season. So would you trade a couple weeks of Hance so you had a healthier Wills the rest of the season? 

[buno67]

8 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

*Random thought*

As cut and dry as I have been about Baker, do I think he has it in him to get it right? My gut says yes, he's a fighter 

I agree. It’s not like we have no idea why he was performing so poorly… you can drastically see things changed after he first tore his labrum and the again after he fractured his shoulder after the JJ Watt hit.

I just hope they really are aggressive at improving the TEs and WRs. Keep DPJ, Felton, Schwartz, and Bryant and replace everyone else.