The Pass "Rush" After 7 Games

[CWood21]

You know, as much as I keep hearing about how the Packers should have taken more pass rushers or taken earlier, it's looking eerily similar to the year after Nick Collins went down with injury.  It was a poor safety class that year, and it wasn't a particularly great OLB class last year.  With the exception of TJ Watt, there really wasn't a great EDGE available that the Packers overlooked or passed on.  Looking at the next 5 EDGE (or however many there are before the Packers next pick.

2(33) - Kevin King [CB; Washington]
2(47) - Tyus Bowser [OLB; Baltimore]
2(49) - Ryan Anderson [OLB; Washington]
2(51) - DeMarcus Walker [DE; Denver]
2(59) - Tanoh Kpassagnon [DE; Kansas City]

Tyus Bowser has currently played in 17% of the defensive snaps for the Ravens, and has 2 sacks in his 9 GP.  Ryan Anderson has played in 21% of the defensive snaps for the Redskins and 0 zero sacks in his 8 GP.  DeMarcus Walker has played in 9% of the defensive snaps and has zero sacks in his 6 GP.  Tanoh Kpassagnon has played in just 2% of the defensive snaps for the Chiefs, and has 0 sacks in 9 GP.  That's TERRIBLE production, and the only one whose close is Tyus Bowser and that's by default.  Kevin King has played in 57% of the defensive snaps thus far.  Walker probably wasn't a fit in our defense anyways.

2(61) - Josh Jones [S; NC State]
3(68) - Dewaune Smoot [DE; Jacksonville]
3(73) - Jordan Willis [DE; Cincinnati]
3(77) - Daeshon Hall [DE; Carolina]
3(78) - Tim Williams [OLB; Baltimore]
3(80) - Tarell Basham [OLB; Indianapolis]
3(83) - Derek Rivers [OLB; New England]

Smoot has currently played in 24% of the defensive snaps for the Jaguars and has 0 sacks.  Jordan Willis has played in 35% of the defensive snaps for the Bengals with 1 sack.  Daeshon Hall has played in 2% of the defensive snaps with 0 sacks.  Tim Williams has played in 10% of the defensive snaps and has 0 sacks.  Basham has played in 15% of the defensive snaps and has 1 career sack.  Derek Rivers tore his ACL before the season started.  Of those players, ONLY Jordan Willis has a legitimate argument in this discussion.  Given that Josh Jones has played in 62% of our defensive snaps, and Jordan Willis isn't going to magically solve our pass rush I'd give this a push at best for picking an EDGE here.

3(93) - Montravius Adams [DT; Auburn]
3(103) - Trey Hendrickson [OLB; New Orleans]
4(116) - Carl Lawson [OLB; Cincinnati]

Trey Hendrickson has played in 30% of the defensive snaps and has 2 sacks.  I went ahead and included Carl Lawson even though he was picked after Vince Biegel, although the odds of them picking two pass rushers with injury concerns is slim at best.  Carl Lawson has played in 35% of the defensive snaps and has 4.5 sacks.  Given that Montravius Adams has only played in 4% of the snaps, you could easily take either of the pass rushers over Adams.

So...with the exception of Watt, you're not better off drafting a pass rusher until the 3rd round when the Packers opted for Montravius Adams in the 3rd and Vince Biegel at the top of the 4th.  The Packers took the "wrong" pass rusher with injury concerns.  That happens.  The fact is that there really weren't any good pass rushers available, once the Packers traded down.  And if you go back and read the comments post-draft, most preferred the trade down as opposed to taking Watt at our original pick.
 

[squire12]

4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

You know, as much as I keep hearing about how the Packers should have taken more pass rushers or taken earlier, it's looking eerily similar to the year after Nick Collins went down with injury.  It was a poor safety class that year, and it wasn't a particularly great OLB class last year.  With the exception of TJ Watt, there really wasn't a great EDGE available that the Packers overlooked or passed on.  Looking at the next 5 EDGE (or however many there are before the Packers next pick.

2(33) - Kevin King [CB; Washington]
2(47) - Tyus Bowser [OLB; Baltimore]
2(49) - Ryan Anderson [OLB; Washington]
2(51) - DeMarcus Walker [DE; Denver]
2(59) - Tanoh Kpassagnon [DE; Kansas City]

Tyus Bowser has currently played in 17% of the defensive snaps for the Ravens, and has 2 sacks in his 9 GP.  Ryan Anderson has played in 21% of the defensive snaps for the Redskins and 0 zero sacks in his 8 GP.  DeMarcus Walker has played in 9% of the defensive snaps and has zero sacks in his 6 GP.  Tanoh Kpassagnon has played in just 2% of the defensive snaps for the Chiefs, and has 0 sacks in 9 GP.  That's TERRIBLE production, and the only one whose close is Tyus Bowser and that's by default.  Kevin King has played in 57% of the defensive snaps thus far.  Walker probably wasn't a fit in our defense anyways.

2(61) - Josh Jones [S; NC State]
3(68) - Dewaune Smoot [DE; Jacksonville]
3(73) - Jordan Willis [DE; Cincinnati]
3(77) - Daeshon Hall [DE; Carolina]
3(78) - Tim Williams [OLB; Baltimore]
3(80) - Tarell Basham [OLB; Indianapolis]
3(83) - Derek Rivers [OLB; New England]

Smoot has currently played in 24% of the defensive snaps for the Jaguars and has 0 sacks.  Jordan Willis has played in 35% of the defensive snaps for the Bengals with 1 sack.  Daeshon Hall has played in 2% of the defensive snaps with 0 sacks.  Tim Williams has played in 10% of the defensive snaps and has 0 sacks.  Basham has played in 15% of the defensive snaps and has 1 career sack.  Derek Rivers tore his ACL before the season started.  Of those players, ONLY Jordan Willis has a legitimate argument in this discussion.  Given that Josh Jones has played in 62% of our defensive snaps, and Jordan Willis isn't going to magically solve our pass rush I'd give this a push at best for picking an EDGE here.

3(93) - Montravius Adams [DT; Auburn]
3(103) - Trey Hendrickson [OLB; New Orleans]
4(116) - Carl Lawson [OLB; Cincinnati]

Trey Hendrickson has played in 30% of the defensive snaps and has 2 sacks.  I went ahead and included Carl Lawson even though he was picked after Vince Biegel, although the odds of them picking two pass rushers with injury concerns is slim at best.  Carl Lawson has played in 35% of the defensive snaps and has 4.5 sacks.  Given that Montravius Adams has only played in 4% of the snaps, you could easily take either of the pass rushers over Adams.

So...with the exception of Watt, you're not better off drafting a pass rusher until the 3rd round when the Packers opted for Montravius Adams in the 3rd and Vince Biegel at the top of the 4th.  The Packers took the "wrong" pass rusher with injury concerns.  That happens.  The fact is that there really weren't any good pass rushers available, once the Packers traded down.  And if you go back and read the comments post-draft, most preferred the trade down as opposed to taking Watt at our original pick.
 

I agree with your assessment.  What is the breakdown if GB takes Watt and needs to pick a CB with the Josh Jones pick?

I for one liked Watt and would have been very happy with taking him in the 1st with pick 29.  I felt the CB class was pretty talented and deep, so would have been more confident in landing a CB in the 2nd/3rd.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, squire12 said:

I agree with your assessment.  What is the breakdown if GB takes Watt and needs to pick a CB with the Josh Jones pick?

I for one liked Watt and would have been very happy with taking him in the 1st with pick 29.  I felt the CB class was pretty talented and deep, so would have been more confident in landing a CB in the 2nd/3rd.

Let's take a look.

2(61) - Josh Jones [S; NC State]
3(66) - Akhello Witherspoon [San Francisco]
3(81) - Fabian Moreau [Washington]
3(90) - Shaq Griffin [Seattle]
3(92) - Jourdan Lewis [Dallas]

Witherspoon has played in 32% of the defensive snaps with 11 tackles, 1 INT, and 1 PD.  Fabian Moreau has played in 10% of the defensive snaps with 3 tackles, 0 INT, and 1 PD.    Shaq Griffin has played in 84% of the defensive snaps with 29 tackles, 0 INT, and 8 PD.  Jourdan Lewis didn't fit our physical profile, so I'm not going to look at him.  Josh Jones played in 62% of the defensive snaps with 29 tackles, 0 INT, and 1 PD (along with 2 sacks).  Shaq Griffin is the only one you'd say is clearly more valuable than Josh Jones.  Maybe Witherspoon does down the road.

3(93) - Montravius Adams [DT; Auburn]
3(94) - Cameron Sutton [Pittsburgh]
3(97) - Cordrea Tankersley [Miami]
3(101) - Brendan Langley [Denver]
4(126) - Howard Wilson [Cleveland]

Cameron Sutton is the IR-D for the Steelers and hasn't played yet.  Tankersley has played in 74% of the defensive snaps with 13 tackles, 0 INT, and 5 PD.  Brendan Langley has played in 1% of the defensive snaps and has 0 production outside of ST.  Howard Wilson has been on the IR this year.

Just for comparison, Kevin King has played in 57% of the defensive snaps and has 15 tackles, 0 INT, and 2 PD.

[squire12]

16 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Let's take a look.

2(61) - Josh Jones [S; NC State]
3(66) - Akhello Witherspoon [San Francisco]
3(81) - Fabian Moreau [Washington]
3(90) - Shaq Griffin [Seattle]
3(92) - Jourdan Lewis [Dallas]

Witherspoon has played in 32% of the defensive snaps with 11 tackles, 1 INT, and 1 PD.  Fabian Moreau has played in 10% of the defensive snaps with 3 tackles, 0 INT, and 1 PD.    Shaq Griffin has played in 84% of the defensive snaps with 29 tackles, 0 INT, and 8 PD.  Jourdan Lewis didn't fit our physical profile, so I'm not going to look at him.  Josh Jones played in 62% of the defensive snaps with 29 tackles, 0 INT, and 1 PD (along with 2 sacks).  Shaq Griffin is the only one you'd say is clearly more valuable than Josh Jones.  Maybe Witherspoon does down the road.

3(93) - Montravius Adams [DT; Auburn]
3(94) - Cameron Sutton [Pittsburgh]
3(97) - Cordrea Tankersley [Miami]
3(101) - Brendan Langley [Denver]
4(126) - Howard Wilson [Cleveland]

Cameron Sutton is the IR-D for the Steelers and hasn't played yet.  Tankersley has played in 74% of the defensive snaps with 13 tackles, 0 INT, and 5 PD.  Brendan Langley has played in 1% of the defensive snaps and has 0 production outside of ST.  Howard Wilson has been on the IR this year.

Just for comparison, Kevin King has played in 57% of the defensive snaps and has 15 tackles, 0 INT, and 2 PD.

Thanks for pulling that up.  Interesting to see the breakdown.

Wonder how injuries to other players affect the opportunity for some vs others.  Context of each players  situation probably influences snap counts, both for and against.

[skibrett15]

sorry, you're trying to evaluate the 2017 draft class?  Why?

 

Who knows if it was a good class or not.  Who knows if Tyus Bowser is a future DPOY or HOF player.

[CWood21]

25 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Thanks for pulling that up.  Interesting to see the breakdown.

Wonder how injuries to other players affect the opportunity for some vs others.  Context of each players  situation probably influences snap counts, both for and against.

Honestly, if someone wants to take a look at that I'll let them.  But I'd think it's a wash given that King has missed time with injury as well.

[CWood21]

7 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

sorry, you're trying to evaluate the 2017 draft class?  Why?

 

Who knows if it was a good class or not.  Who knows if Tyus Bowser is a future DPOY or HOF player.

I'm not evaluating the draft class, I was merely making the argument that said that Ted wasn't active enough in the draft this past draft in finding more pass rushers isn't an accurate statement.  The implication was that Ted willingly passed over EDGE players who could have been an upgrade over what we already had, which based on what I presented isn't true.

[skibrett15]

Just now, CWood21 said:

The implication was that Ted willingly passed over EDGE players who could have been an upgrade over what we already had, which based on what I presented isn't true.

don't know what we don't know.  Maybe he willingly passed on edge players who could have been an upgrade over what we already have.

[CWood21]

Just now, skibrett15 said:

don't know what we don't know.  Maybe he willingly passed on edge players who could have been an upgrade over what we already have.

What EDGE player did we pass on?  Which one solves our EDGE issue?  The answer is none.

[skibrett15]

Just now, CWood21 said:

What EDGE player did we pass on?  Which one solves our EDGE issue?  The answer is none.

watt, bowser, player x

[CWood21]

Just now, skibrett15 said:

watt, bowser, player x

Based on what they've done so far?

[TheOnlyThing]

5 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

the argument that said that Ted wasn't active enough ... isn't an accurate statement.  

Well, at least your consistent.

 

[CWood21]

6 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Well, at least your consistent.

I'm still waiting to know which draft pick that Ted passed up on that was fixes our pass rush issue.

[TheOnlyThing]

Just now, CWood21 said:

I'm still waiting to know which draft pick that Ted passed up on that was fixes our pass rush issue.

Gee, I wonder whether a top 4 OLB rotation of Perry, Matthews, TJ Watt, and Julius Peppers would be better than what we've seen out of TT's OLBs unit in 2017?

Or would drafting Watt/re-signing Peppers have stunted the "development" of TT 2016 3rd round wonder Kyler Fackrell?

[TransientTexan]

2 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Gee, I wonder whether a top 4 OLB rotation of Perry, Matthews, TJ Watt, and Julius Peppers would be better than what we've seen out of TT's OLBs unit in 2017?

Or would drafting Watt/re-signing Peppers have stunted the "development" of TT 2016 3rd round wonder Kyler Fackrell?

And then you’d be whining about them not doing enough to fix the CB position