The Pass "Rush" After 7 Games

[TheOnlyThing]

2 hours ago, Spartacus said:

There is no reason to believe that a healthy Perry and Matthews would be this ineffective. 

Yes. There. Was.

In only 1 of Perry's first 5 seasons in GB (last year) did he finish with >4 sacks. So he is actually having a pretty productive season by his standards.

As for Clay, it has been 5 seasons since he reached double digit sacks as an OLBer.

Matthews’ Sacks:                                         Perry’s Sacks:

2016 = 5                                                            2016 = 11

2015 = 6.5                                                         2015 = 3.5

2014 = 11**                                                       2014 = 3

2013 = 7.5                                                          2013 = 4

** 8.5 of Clay’s 11 sacks in 2014 came after he moved to ILB at midseason. Hence, he was on pace for 5 sacks total while playing half the season at OLB in 2014. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/13951029/how-packers-clay-matthews-redefined-all-pro-career-moving-linebacker

The biggest story involving the OLBs this season is the minor miracle that Clay has not yet appeared on the injury report despite playing nearly 80% of the snaps.

 

[TransientTexan]

20 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Well we rank 2nd to last in the NFL in sacks, so it's a reasonable critique. Well over 20 teams have found a way to do it better than us.

but now we are back to the hindsight. I'll put it this way. Given the depth chart going into the season, if you played the first half of the season 10 times, I don't think most of those scenarios end us up where we are now in the 2nd-to-last category. 

[Packerraymond]

2 minutes ago, TransientTexan said:

but now we are back to the hindsight. I'll put it this way. Given the depth chart going into the season, if you played the first half of the season 10 times, I don't think most of those scenarios end us up where we are now in the 2nd-to-last category. 

I don't how you can figure Perry, Matthews, Fackrell was going to be a great pass rush group. 2 oft injured players, an unproven 2nd year man who took no steps forward in camp. Then we added two post cut down guys. Neither have helped.

You're making this sound like it was DB or something. There, I'll say we had a roster mix full of vets and young guys that I was 100% content going into week 1 with. Pass rusher I wasn't anywhere near there.

[LargeFarva]

Brooks and Biegel replacing Odom and Fackrell should help. Biegel made some nice plays against the run Monday night. I don't recall many pass rush opportunities for him.

[TransientTexan]

12 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I don't how you can figure Perry, Matthews, Fackrell was going to be a great pass rush group.

Never said that. I just think Perry+Matthews+Brooks+Fackrell+Biegel could've been decent. 

13 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Then we added two post cut down guys. Neither have helped.

ok, hindsight is always nice to have. it's not like post cut down guys have never helped anyone. 

So long as there is a salary cap & reverse draft order, there will never be a roster/depth chart someone is 100% satisfied with (and satisfied for each and every moment of the offseason and season). There will always be something that scarcity of resources has made it difficult to account for either momentarily or for a longer duration, that will sometimes exacerbate problems if they do occur. There are also times where fans fret about things and it turns out not to matter (ie. Sitton>Taylor). But often times when fans call the shot incorrectly, it gets lost in the depths of message board archives. 

[Stevein2012]

2 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

I don't how you can figure Perry, Matthews, Fackrell was going to be a great pass rush group. 2 oft injured players, an unproven 2nd year man who took no steps forward in camp. Then we added two post cut down guys. Neither have helped.

You're making this sound like it was DB or something. There, I'll say we had a roster mix full of vets and young guys that I was 100% content going into week 1 with. Pass rusher I wasn't anywhere near there.

We were 6th in the league last year in sacks and lost a guy who had 7.5 and 2 and added a guy who had 6 along with a new 4th rounder.  Not really a situation you'd expect to plummet like it has.

[incognito_man]

4 hours ago, TheOnlyThing said:

as an OLBer.

 

completely unnecessary qualifier inserted only to advance a weak argument.

[Spartacus]

15 hours ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Yes. There. Was.

In only 1 of Perry's first 5 seasons in GB (last year) did he finish with >4 sacks. So he is actually having a pretty productive season by his standards.

As for Clay, it has been 5 seasons since he reached double digit sacks as an OLBer.

Matthews’ Sacks:                                         Perry’s Sacks:

2016 = 5                                                            2016 = 11

2015 = 6.5                                                         2015 = 3.5

2014 = 11**                                                       2014 = 3

2013 = 7.5                                                          2013 = 4

** 8.5 of Clay’s 11 sacks in 2014 came after he moved to ILB at midseason. Hence, he was on pace for 5 sacks total while playing half the season at OLB in 2014. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/13951029/how-packers-clay-matthews-redefined-all-pro-career-moving-linebacker

The biggest story involving the OLBs this season is the minor miracle that Clay has not yet appeared on the injury report despite playing nearly 80% of the snaps.

 

And what was everyone's biggest gripe with Matthews/Perry as starters at the beginning of the year? Not there lack of productivity. It was injury concerns that everyone was so bent out of shape about. Well both of been relatively healthy and yet we are still failing. You are using hindsight and finding facts to support it. I guarantee you at the beginning of the year didn't believe that Perry and Mathews would both regress healthy. 

[Pugger]

16 hours ago, LargeFarva said:

Brooks and Biegel replacing Odom and Fackrell should help. Biegel made some nice plays against the run Monday night. I don't recall many pass rush opportunities for him.

Has Brooks practiced this week?  We could use him this weekend in Chicago.

[skibrett15]

26 minutes ago, Pugger said:

Has Brooks practiced this week?  We could use him this weekend in Chicago.

reading he is going to play

[Pugger]

1 minute ago, skibrett15 said:

reading he is going to play

Oh good.  We could use all the help we can get on D.

[TheOnlyThing]

2 hours ago, Spartacus said:

And what was everyone's biggest gripe with Matthews/Perry as starters at the beginning of the year? Not there lack of productivity. It was injury concerns that everyone was so bent out of shape about. Well both of been relatively healthy and yet we are still failing.

Um, Nick broke his hand in the second game of the season in Atlanta. He underwent surgery (for the second straight year to repair a broken hand).

He then missed one game and was severely hampered in several others while wearing a club on that hand.

I understand the inclination of some to always defend you know who from any and all criticism, but to pretend Perry has been "relatively healthy" or that is somehow a surprise that he got injured during the first half of the season is to deny reality.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20775801/green-bay-packers-nick-perry-needs-hand-surgery-second-straight-year

[Spartacus]

1 minute ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Um, Nick broke his hand in the second game of the season in Atlanta. He underwent surgery (for the second straight year to repair a broken hand).

He then missed one game and was severely hampered in several others while wearing a club on that hand.

I understand the inclination of some to always defend you know who from any and all criticism, but to pretend Perry has been "relatively healthy" or that is somehow a surprise that he got injured during the first half of the season is to deny reality.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20775801/green-bay-packers-nick-perry-needs-hand-surgery-second-straight-year

Perry played with a broken hand last year and was just as impactful. I am not defending you know who (What is he voldemort?) from all criticism. Even with a club Perry started. The whole gripe at the beginning of the year revolved around depth not the starters and revolved around there is no way Perry and Mathews would stay healthy. Perry and Mathews have started and played in almost every game beginning to end. You can't just move the bar to fit your narrative whenever something goes wrong and say "I told you so".  If you want to blame TT, Capers, and McCarthy for anything I think its the lack foresight to see how little impact Clay Mathews has been having at OLB. Not anything to do with Perry who is still are most impactful rusher on defense. 

Point out one post of yours before the year started where you said even if Perry and Mathews started all 16 games they would be a weak duo. 

[MacReady]

@TheOnlyThing, I keep challenging you to find a GM better at drafting than Ted Thompson and you literally ignore it every single time.  Find three teams that are better at drafting than Ted Thompson.  Just three.  Earlier it was 5, but since you have literally never accepted my challenge, I'll drop it down to five.  I'll even rule one out for you... The Broncos.   

I agree with you on a LOT of your criticisms of Thompson.  A LOT of them, especially our lack of a pass rush this year.  Check the old forum if you don't believe me, but I was saying the exact same thing heading into this year.  Our pass rush was barely good enough if our starters stayed healthy and played as well as they did last year.  I was mad we didn't bring Peppers back, I was mad we didn't draft a pass rusher, I was overall mad about the whole pass rush situation.  You're not the only one who saw this coming and who is mad at Ted Thompson for not doing something about it, so stop acting like you were Dennis Quaid in The Day After Tomorrow around here about that.

And also, for the love of God quit complaining about Ted Thompson's drafting.  YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SEE THAT TED THOMPSON IS ONE OF THE BEST AT DRAFTING IN THE NFL. 

I'm not defending him as a GM.  I'm not.  There have been problems in season that he could have addressed and didn't that hurt us and likely kept us from appearing in Super Bowls and I'm not defending him as a GM.  It just gets so damn old when people complain about his drafting because he really is one of the best.  Why don't you see that?  Because you have no perspective.

He's been drafting very low in the order, and if you can't see how that effects him, you're blind and not worth having rational conversations with. 

Instead of complaining about his VERY FEW full on busts, complain about his draft mentality.  Complain that he isn't trading up more.  In 2009 he traded up and got Clay Matthews.  Complain he doesn't trade up more, but for the love of God stop complaining about his very, very, very few busts in relation to the rest of the NFL.

There are teams drafting first round players who don't last in the NFL for four years because they're bad.  I know you weren't even discussing his drafting in this thread, but your little shot at Thompson reminded me of it and made me think you were taking a shot at him drafting Perry and I got too far into it.

You'd be so much more tolerable if you didn't complain about literally everything he does and instead focus on the genuine complaints.  Stop.  Complaining.  About.  Thompson's.  Drafting.  Until.  Or.  Unless.  You.  Can.  Find.  Three.  Teams.  Worse.  Than.  Him.  At.  Drafting. 

[CWood21]

He's still waiting on me to do the work for him...