The Pass "Rush" After 7 Games

[spilltray]

Lowry flashes enough that I still hope he could be solid, if the edge rushers were at least good. Most pressure packages are in a 4 man front anyway.

[Cheesehawk]

1 hour ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Still think Clay can be a #3 if we had a really good #1.  Would love to have Matthews here next year while adding a #1 pass rusher.  Think his value as a backup/depth to every linebacker position is worth 11 million for a year. 

$11m a year as a LB depth guy?... I was set on raising my kid as a long snapper.. this is enticing though.

[CWood21]

11 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I don't think it's either. He recognized it was a quick pass, tried to get his hands up and didn't get the ball. Why he chose to fall down I have no idea but it certainly looks intentional. 

That video might look different in non slow motion though.

Isn't that exactly why some positional coaches tell players not to leave their feet?  Fackrell must have seen/read screen and jumped to tip the pass.

[CWood21]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Perry, Daniels, and Clark are three pieces of a championship caliber pass rush.

We need OLB 2, OLB 3, and 3-Tech 2

Clay, Brooks, and Lowry are not the pieces of a championship caliber pass rush. Maybe Brooks is as a #3 guy, but man our pressure package is punchless right now. 

Have all of our pass rushers been healthy this year?  I'm not disagreeing that our pass rush has been pretty bad, but honestly I don't feel like we've had a healthy pass rush this eyar.  Seems like there's always someone's who banged up or missing the game.

[CWood21]

2 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Still think Clay can be a #3 if we had a really good #1.  Would love to have Matthews here next year while adding a #1 pass rusher.  Think his value as a backup/depth to every linebacker position is worth 11 million for a year. 

To me, this is probably the biggest thing.  Right now, everyone is playing out of their roles.  Add in a to pass rusher, and I think everyone else falls into line.

[TheOnlyThing]

4 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Have all of our pass rushers been healthy this year?  

Nope, the pass rushers have not all been healthy, except for Fackrell.

All four of the other OLBs, plus Daniels and Clark, have been nicked up from time to time.

However, there has not been a single season-ending injury among those who might have been expected to contribute to the rush and it is completely unrealistic to expect any NFL team to have all of their pass rushers healthy through 11 games.

Moreover, given their respective injury histories, could any Packer fan have reasonably expected Matthews and Perry to have played more than they have so far this season?

Dom can be blamed for many things, but the lack of a pass rush is more of a personnel than scheme issue.

[MantyWrestler]

18 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I don't think it's either. He recognized it was a quick pass, tried to get his hands up and didn't get the ball. Why he chose to fall down I have no idea but it certainly looks intentional. 

That video might look different in non slow motion though.

The video is embarrassing at any speed!

[AlexGreen#20]

33 minutes ago, MantyWrestler said:

The video is embarrassing at any speed!

Why? It's not like he's getting beat for a TD? Getting double teamed back into a LB to open up a hole for a rushing TD is embarrassing. Getting burned on a sluggo route is embarrassing. Unless it hurts the team or your're individually dominated, it's not really embarrassing.

It's weird more than anything else. 

[AlexGreen#20]

7 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Have all of our pass rushers been healthy this year?  I'm not disagreeing that our pass rush has been pretty bad, but honestly I don't feel like we've had a healthy pass rush this eyar.  Seems like there's always someone's who banged up or missing the game.

That isn't a "this year" assessment. That's an academic, all things going right, assessment. 

[AlexGreen#20]

7 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Isn't that exactly why some positional coaches tell players not to leave their feet?  Fackrell must have seen/read screen and jumped to tip the pass.

Any coach who tells a front line guy not to leave their feet on a short pass is an idiot. If you're not getting to the QB, jump and try and knock the ball down.

You can even see the O-Linemn try and knock his hands down before he pushed him back. 

[MacReady]

20 hours ago, packerrfan74 said:

$11m a year as a LB depth guy?... I was set on raising my kid as a long snapper.. this is enticing though.

I don't get it why people have such a hard time with this.  It's 11 million dollars to a billion dollar team that doesn't even have a single owner.  It's different if we're the Jaguars or the Redskins or some other team that throws money at players other teams were okay with saying goodbye to, but we're not.  That 11 million dollars isn't getting spent here on literally anyone but Clay Matthews, so what effing difference does it make?

Clay earned that 11 million dollars for this team thanks to jersey sales, attendance, three all-pro caliber seasons (one of which he was robbed of a defensive player of the year award), and a top 10 iconic play in Packers football history IN A SUPER BOWL, which will be remembered for the rest of your life and mine combined and probably shared with future generations.

We cut him and we save 11 million dollars that we won't spend.  Because as I've said 10,000 times already, we've got 33 million dollars in cap space next year if we keep Matthews and Cobb and Nelson.  If we cut him instead of let his contract run out, we miss out on a compensatory pick, too. 

I haven ot seen one single compelling reason for us to cut him.

So why in the damn effing eff do people care about him getting paid 11 million dollars to be a contributor to our team next year?   I don't get it. 

 

[Dubz41]

17 hours ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Nope, the pass rushers have not all been healthy, except for Fackrell.

All four of the other OLBs, plus Daniels and Clark, have been nicked up from time to time.

However, there has not been a single season-ending injury among those who might have been expected to contribute to the rush and it is completely unrealistic to expect any NFL team to have all of their pass rushers healthy through 11 games.

Moreover, given their respective injury histories, could any Packer fan have reasonably expected Matthews and Perry to have played more than they have so far this season?

Dom can be blamed for many things, but the lack of a pass rush is more of a personnel than scheme issue.

It is more scheme than personnel.  Watch the pass rush.  We are overly concerned with lane responsibility.  There is no chaos in our pass rush.  Our blitzes are picked up constantly because they know right where they're going.  Predictable and easily countered.  Those who think that drafting a rookie to be an OLB is going to fix anything are being duped.  Capers will apply the manacles to him and halfway through the season we'll blame TT for not drafting someone else.  We don't use the players' strengths, we shackle them with Capers 'scheme'. 

[Spartacus]

3 minutes ago, Dubz41 said:

It is more scheme than personnel.  Watch the pass rush.  We are overly concerned with lane responsibility.  There is no chaos in our pass rush.  Our blitzes are picked up constantly because they know right where they're going.  Predictable and easily countered.  Those who think that drafting a rookie to be an OLB is going to fix anything are being duped.  Capers will apply the manacles to him and halfway through the season we'll blame TT for not drafting someone else.  We don't use the players' strengths, we shackle them with Capers 'scheme'. 

Keeping lane responsibility is kind of important at any level. Especially against a QB like Big Ben. When you rush 4 like most elite defensive teams do that leaves most likely 3 guys 1v1. In our case when we rush 4 Mike Daniels or Nick Perry usually draw the double team (Usually Daniels). That generally leaves Matthews, Fackrell, Lowry, Clark, and Perry at times 1v1 vs the other teams guard/tackle. The problem is that none of those guys consistently get much pressure on the QB. In the NFL its not about fancy stunts or zone blitzes. Most NFL QBS/OLs are not going to be fooled by trickery. They are too athletic and too smart. The reason players like Lawrence, Bosa, and Miller get so many sacks isn't scheme its because they beat there man consistently. 

I'm no fan of Capers but you are really over exaggerating scheme as the problem. 

 

[Cheesehawk]

58 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

I don't get it why people have such a hard time with this.  It's 11 million dollars to a billion dollar team that doesn't even have a single owner.  It's different if we're the Jaguars or the Redskins or some other team that throws money at players other teams were okay with saying goodbye to, but we're not.  That 11 million dollars isn't getting spent here on literally anyone but Clay Matthews, so what effing difference does it make?

Clay earned that 11 million dollars for this team thanks to jersey sales, attendance, three all-pro caliber seasons (one of which he was robbed of a defensive player of the year award), and a top 10 iconic play in Packers football history IN A SUPER BOWL, which will be remembered for the rest of your life and mine combined and probably shared with future generations.

We cut him and we save 11 million dollars that we won't spend.  Because as I've said 10,000 times already, we've got 33 million dollars in cap space next year if we keep Matthews and Cobb and Nelson.  If we cut him instead of let his contract run out, we miss out on a compensatory pick, too. 

I haven ot seen one single compelling reason for us to cut him.

So why in the damn effing eff do people care about him getting paid 11 million dollars to be a contributor to our team next year?   I don't get it. 

 

Sorry I don't see the value in paying 11 mil for something a guy did 7 years ago. Clay simply isn't worth anywhere near 11 mil a year anymore. Thats facts.

I'd love to have Clay around next year on a much cheaper deal so we can afford to improve our team in other areas. We got a couple big resigning decisions to make over the offseason and that would leave us with significantly less than 33m. 

You can hold on to those All-Pro season memories, enjoy your monetary gains from the jersey sales since we dont have a single owner, and bask in the Clay Matthews filled ad slots... doesn't change the fact that Clay isn't worth 11 mil. We may be able to afford it... but if it can go somewhere else to better this team, I want it to.

[Dubz41]

5 hours ago, Spartacus said:

Keeping lane responsibility is kind of important at any level. Especially against a QB like Big Ben. When you rush 4 like most elite defensive teams do that leaves most likely 3 guys 1v1. In our case when we rush 4 Mike Daniels or Nick Perry usually draw the double team (Usually Daniels). That generally leaves Matthews, Fackrell, Lowry, Clark, and Perry at times 1v1 vs the other teams guard/tackle. The problem is that none of those guys consistently get much pressure on the QB. In the NFL its not about fancy stunts or zone blitzes. Most NFL QBS/OLs are not going to be fooled by trickery. They are too athletic and too smart. The reason players like Lawrence, Bosa, and Miller get so many sacks isn't scheme its because they beat there man consistently. 

I'm no fan of Capers but you are really over exaggerating scheme as the problem. 

 

No I'm not exaggerating.  If you ever watched film of Fackrell, for instance, in college you would see a pretty good football player.  In Caper's scheme all he does is think.  Really tired of people making excuses for Capers.  He has been figured out.  His history is early success and then sucks.  Over and over.  History doesn't lie.  Watch our blitzers run right into the blockers EVERY time!  Watch our DL get handled EVERY time.  The opposing team gets their hands on us and we are through.  Our pass rush looks like a blocking sled drill and is about as effective.  C'mon, watch it happen each week.  The only sacks we've had for the last month have been coverage sacks!

As for the bolded part: That's what most DC's do, deceive and trick the QBs into seeing coverages and blitzes that are NOT happening.  Wasn't it Stafford who said they knew what we were doing almost all the time. Capers can't even fool Rookie QBs. 

You can keep over thinking it (Capers would love that) but trust your eyes.  Watch what is happening every game.  Even our players are getting tired of it.