MacReady Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 4 hours ago, packerrfan74 said: We may be able to afford it... but if it can go somewhere else to better this team, I want it to. Keeping Clay Matthews at 11 million dollars will in no way, shape or form prevent us from signing or drafting a better pass rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 16 minutes ago, Dubz41 said: If you ever watched film of Fackrell, for instance, in college you would see a pretty good football player. You would also see a football player that had trouble getting off of blocks and once his initial move failed was usually useless. He also used his superior length and speed at the college level. That gets only so far when everyone at the NFL level has length and speed. 18 minutes ago, Dubz41 said: In Caper's scheme all he does is think. You have no proof of this. I have hardly ever seen Fackrell out of position. I have seen him go up against other teams left and right tackles and get stonewalled on bull rushes while getting pushed well outside on speed rushes. Hes just not a good pass rusher at this point in his career. 20 minutes ago, Dubz41 said: His history is early success and then sucks. Over and over. History doesn't lie. I agree with this and I think he should be firing but I don't think another DC is going to come in and make Fackrell into a premier pass rusher, capture Mathews early years, or turn Lowry into another Mike Daniels. They need to play better period. 22 minutes ago, Dubz41 said: Watch our blitzers run right into the blockers EVERY time! Watch our DL get handled EVERY time. The opposing team gets their hands on us and we are through. Our pass rush looks like a blocking sled drill and is about as effective. C'mon, watch it happen each week. The only sacks we've had for the last month have been coverage sacks! Yea, no crap they run into blockers. There are 5 very well paid players on every team where there only job is to not let the pass rushers get a clean hit on the QB. How many times does Von Miller go unblocked for a sack? It simply doesn't happen. You need to beat your man 1v1 when given the opportunity. Something all of our pass rushers have been at best inconsistent at and at worst plain bad. Your saying i'm overthinking it but I would say the same for you. Your so caught up in the Xs and Os of football you don't understand the core concept of rushing the passer. How many times have we seen Mathews blow right up the middle untouched by anyone but the RB and get stopped? That's not scheme. A pass rusher of Matthews pedigree should be putting any TE/RB on his *** but he doesn't. Very rarely are NFL caliber offenses going to be caught totally off guard to allow a free blitzer like your saying. Guys at the NFL level need to beat there blocker 1v1 when given the chance, something ours rarely do sans Daniels and Perry who rarely are blocked 1v1. FYI i'm not a fan of Capers and I want him fired but you are giving him way too much credit for our lackluster pass rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 The Packers blitzed on only 7% of the plays vs Pitt, one of the lowest rates in years per the report I read - and that's due to Big Ben's escapability as noted by others. Its also due to the threat posed by Pitt WR's forcing GB to deploy more guys in coverage. That means 4 Packers vs 5 OL (plus any RBs/ TEs chipping). What is your expectation under that scenario ? Yes, teams "know" what's coming, but that's not because of some failing on Capers part - it's because all teams have video of all plays from multiple viewpoints. That video is sorted, collated and tagged by down, distance, opponent, coach, turf and bunch more. And it's all available at the push of a button. There aren't many secrets in the NFL anymore, so the recurring meme of "Capers has been figured out !" is really kinda stupid. Everybody has been figured out in the digital age NFL. It comes down to: do you have the horses to counter it both mentally and physically ? Part of what makes defenses work is that few QBs can process at the LOS like Rodgers and the elite QBs. That's the cat and mouse of it, do you have enough time to adjust your offense/blocking before the snap of the ball ? That's why defenses try so hard to disguise and why offenses use formations and movement to decipher which call is coming. But even if you "know", there's only a split second to communicate it flawlessly across 11 dudes in a loud stadium. And then you have to execute it. "Knowing" represents only a small fraction of beating an NFL defense. Right now you have a perfect example in GB: - note the difference between how Hundley handles things vs Rodgers. Hundley knows what's coming too, he just isn't fast enough yet in processing and countering all of it. That comes with playing. Conversely, Ben has played long enough to know what's coming AND how to counter it quickly AND he also has the horses to execute it The Packers defense (without Matthews or Clark) delivered 3 punts and 3 turnovers, including the Martinez INT that led to the missed FG. The defense probably played well enough to win this game, the offense probably didn't. They just weren't able to convert the turnovers into more points. Also noted: Pitt dumped their legendary DC Le Beau and went with a younger guy - something that Packer Nation strongly advocates. Yet that super fast top 5 Pittsburgh defense, loaded with draft picks and a shiny new DC gave up 28 points to Brett- freaking- Hundley on their home turf at Heinz. The exact same QB and offense the Ravens D shut out a week earlier.... Dubz - This isn't some defense of Capers, I'm merely exposing the fact that your specific critiques don't stand up to scrutiny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubz41 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 "Yea, no crap they run into blockers" - condescend much? Or are you just really Captain Obvious Shanedorf- my expectation is too much to ask apparently. Twists, stunts anything besides what we're doing to rank 26th(?) in the league in sacks. Not even sacks, but pressures. I just don't see it, people keep posting statistics and rankings. We poopoo ideas of change and just keep watching the slow decline of performance and bemoaning the 'wasted' years of exemplary QB play we've enjoyed. I've seldom seen a better example of the term 'damn lies and statistics' You really can make them say anything you want. Sometimes you need a more visceral reaction. Paralysis through analysis. I 'feel' its time to Go with your gut. Scrutinize all you want. I know what I see and I see the enabling of a death spiral of performance. The Pack has played some of the most awful football they've played in a long time (Lions game especially). I'm sure someone will come up with statistics that say "No it's not" , but I know what I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 23 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: Also noted: Pitt dumped their legendary DC Le Beau and went with a younger guy - something that Packer Nation strongly advocates. Yet that super fast top 5 Pittsburgh defense, loaded with draft picks and a shiny new DC gave up 28 points to Brett- freaking- Hundley on their home turf at Heinz. Pitt's D played a poor game on Sunday night, no doubt about it. After 11 games, Pitt's D is 3rd in the NFL giving up 16.5 points per game. GB's D is tied for 19-21 at 22.5 ppg. Pitt's Defensive DVOA ranking is #4 in the NFL. GB is ranked 17th. Pitt is currently 2nd in the NFL with 38 sacks. GB is tied for 23rd with 22 sacks. How come our defense, LOADED WITH TOP DRAFT PICKS, isn't as anywhere near as good as Pitt's D? Couldn't be that SHINY NEW DC could it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 54 minutes ago, Dubz41 said: "Shanedorf- my expectation is too much to ask apparently. I know what I see I don't believe your expectations sync up with reality; but that's just like my opinion, man... You clearly believe that you "know" what you see, but your posts suggest that you're not diving deep enough into the NFL chess match Remember: The visceral responses you like to lean on, require no thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Shanedorf said: The Packers blitzed on only 7% of the plays vs Pitt, one of the lowest rates in years per the report I read - and that's due to Big Ben's escapability as noted by others. Its also due to the threat posed by Pitt WR's forcing GB to deploy more guys in coverage. That means 4 Packers vs 5 OL (plus any RBs/ TEs chipping). What is your expectation under that scenario ? Yes, teams "know" what's coming, but that's not because of some failing on Capers part - it's because all teams have video of all plays from multiple viewpoints. That video is sorted, collated and tagged by down, distance, opponent, coach, turf and bunch more. And it's all available at the push of a button. There aren't many secrets in the NFL anymore, so the recurring meme of "Capers has been figured out !" is really kinda stupid. Everybody has been figured out in the digital age NFL. It comes down to: do you have the horses to counter it both mentally and physically ? Part of what makes defenses work is that few QBs can process at the LOS like Rodgers and the elite QBs. That's the cat and mouse of it, do you have enough time to adjust your offense/blocking before the snap of the ball ? That's why defenses try so hard to disguise and why offenses use formations and movement to decipher which call is coming. But even if you "know", there's only a split second to communicate it flawlessly across 11 dudes in a loud stadium. And then you have to execute it. "Knowing" represents only a small fraction of beating an NFL defense. Right now you have a perfect example in GB: - note the difference between how Hundley handles things vs Rodgers. Hundley knows what's coming too, he just isn't fast enough yet in processing and countering all of it. That comes with playing. Conversely, Ben has played long enough to know what's coming AND how to counter it quickly AND he also has the horses to execute it The Packers defense (without Matthews or Clark) delivered 3 punts and 3 turnovers, including the Martinez INT that led to the missed FG. The defense probably played well enough to win this game, the offense probably didn't. They just weren't able to convert the turnovers into more points. Also noted: Pitt dumped their legendary DC Le Beau and went with a younger guy - something that Packer Nation strongly advocates. Yet that super fast top 5 Pittsburgh defense, loaded with draft picks and a shiny new DC gave up 28 points to Brett- freaking- Hundley on their home turf at Heinz. The exact same QB and offense the Ravens D shut out a week earlier.... Dubz - This isn't some defense of Capers, I'm merely exposing the fact that your specific critiques don't stand up to scrutiny The Steelers D has been awesome this year. They had a bad game, but that example goes against you there. Pitt got significantly better by going with a new, younger DC. WITHIN the organization though, for all those who think moving on from Dom for the likes of one of our current position coaches would be a repeat, it has been anything but for Pitt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Pitt defense has been fantastic this year, but their true test(s) arrive over the next month or so. Let's chat then and we can decide on the accolades. When I look at the position coaches in GB, I don't see the heir apparent. Is Kevin Greene a viable option ? Whitt seems too CB-specific, but he's a hell of a coach imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubz41 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: I don't believe your expectations sync up with reality; but that's just like my opinion, man... You clearly believe that you "know" what you see, but your posts suggest that you're not diving deep enough into the NFL chess match Remember: The visceral responses you like to lean on, require no thinking... And I am of the opinion that you guys are so busy patting yourself on the back with cherry picked stats that your missing the instinctive reaction that is in all of us. Like: Also noted: Pitt dumped their legendary DC Le Beau and went with a younger guy - something that Packer Nation strongly advocates. Yet that super fast top 5 Pittsburgh defense, loaded with draft picks and a shiny new DC gave up 28 points to Brett- freaking- Hundley on their home turf at Heinz. If that selected stat is 'diving deep enough into the chess match' Then I'll stay with the visceral reaction. I've thought about it enough and have chosen a gut reaction because those who 'dive deep' have no answers, just more statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: Pitt defense has been fantastic this year ... Also noted: Pitt dumped their legendary DC Le Beau and went with a younger guy - something that Packer Nation strongly advocates. So, based upon how you note that Pitt's D has been "fantastic" this season since moving on from LeBeau, I take it that you are one of those in Packer nation strongly advocating that the Pack dump the longest-tenured defensive coordinator in the NFL. Hard to argue with your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 20 hours ago, Dubz41 said: "Yea, no crap they run into blockers" - condescend much? Or are you just really Captain Obvious I'm sorry. That was pretty harsh for the point you were trying to make. The reality is I just disagree with what you see. I think your over thinking the pass rush. A DC can only do so much. If you match Clay Mathews against a TE,RB, or 1v1 vs an average LT or RT he needs to win that 1v1. Something the last couple years he's really struggled with doing. I'm in the boat that this defense is filled with good starters but is missing that game changing player that all elite defenses rely on. Blue chip players have been severely lacking on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fussnputz Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Just a side note: when somebody says, I have a "visceral response" or a "gut feeling" to say they aren't thinking isn't quite true. Gut feelings are actually thoughts processed in the non-verbal part of the brain called the limbic system. Thinking is occurring, just in a non-verbal way. We often times have trouble expressing the limbic thought process, because it is non-verbal. Often times we say, I have a hunch, or or I have a feeling in my gut. But that feeling or hunch is the result of a thought process, just a non-verbal one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgwingman Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 31 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said: Just a side note: when somebody says, I have a "visceral response" or a "gut feeling" to say they aren't thinking isn't quite true. Gut feelings are actually thoughts processed in the non-verbal part of the brain called the limbic system. Thinking is occurring, just in a non-verbal way. We often times have trouble expressing the limbic thought process, because it is non-verbal. Often times we say, I have a hunch, or or I have a feeling in my gut. But that feeling or hunch is the result of a thought process, just a non-verbal one. I come here for the limbic system, stay for the packers talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 14 minutes ago, pgwingman said: I come here for the limbic system, stay for the packers talk Epic post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fussnputz Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Glad to get a chuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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