The Pass "Rush" After 7 Games

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Gee, I wonder whether a top 4 OLB rotation of Perry, Matthews, TJ Watt, and Julius Peppers would be better than what we've seen out of TT's OLBs unit in 2017?

Or would drafting Watt/re-signing Peppers have stunted the "development" of TT 2016 3rd round wonder Kyler Fackrell?

First off, the decision to move on from Peppers was MUTUAL.  Despite your opinion otherwise, Peppers stated his desire to return to Carolina and the Packers wanted to get younger at OLB.  But again, use the power of hindsight to justify your argument.  You were NOWHERE to be found around the draft vocalizing your issues with the selections.

And if the Packers opted to draft T.J. Watt, you'd be harping about how the Packers didn't invest enough into the CB position instead relying on the trio of Davon House, Damarious Randall, and Quientin Rollins.  So...we go from complaining about pass rush to complaining about our corners.

[CWood21]

@TheOnlyThing, answer these questions.  Don't go off on a tangent, answer the question.

1.) Do you believe that in the 160 snaps Fackrell took in his rookie year that you knew WITHOUT a shadow of a doubt that he wouldn't develop from Year 1 to Year 2?

2.) At what point is it unreasonable to block a high or semi-high pick from the field?

[incognito_man]

9 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

...you...complaining

The rest of the words are superfluous.

[Packerraymond]

11 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

@TheOnlyThing, answer these questions.  Don't go off on a tangent, answer the question.

1.) Do you believe that in the 160 snaps Fackrell took in his rookie year that you knew WITHOUT a shadow of a doubt that he wouldn't develop from Year 1 to Year 2?

2.) At what point is it unreasonable to block a high or semi-high pick from the field?

Putting faith in a guy like Kyler Fackrell is something rebuilding teams can afford, not us. That was a huge mistake IMO. That's the 2nd most important position on the field.

[TheOnlyThing]

13 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

First off, the decision to move on from Peppers was MUTUAL.  

And if the Packers opted to draft T.J. Watt, 

So you concede Ted Thompson decided to move on from Peppers and that he could have drafted Watt.

So tell us, in your opinion would the 2017 pass rush be better if it included Peppers and Watt in addition to Clay and Perry or not?

 

[CWood21]

5 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Putting faith in a guy like Kyler Fackrell is something rebuilding teams can afford, not us. That was a huge mistake IMO. That's the 2nd most important position on the field.

Again, I'll ask you as I did him.  What in the 160 snaps that Fackrell took last year indicated that there would be no development?

[CWood21]

3 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

So you concede Ted Thompson decided to move on from Peppers and that he could have drafted Watt.

So tell us, in your opinion would the 2017 pass rush be better if it included Peppers and Watt in addition to Clay and Perry or not?

You continue to ignore my points, yet I'll continue to answer yours.  Imagine that.

I've already said it was mutual.  Peppers was ready to go back to Carolina, and Green Bay wanted to go in a younger direction.  It takes two to tango, again something you refuse to recognize or acknowledge.

I don't have to answer that second one.  However, as we've already discussed Peppers didn't want to come back, so this whole hypothetical is a pointless exercise.

[CWood21]

So...not going to respond to my questions?

[TheOnlyThing]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

I don't have to answer that second one.  However, as we've already discussed Peppers didn't want to come back, 

You are the one who wrote at length that no one could blame poor Teddy T for the craptastic 2017 pass rush because there just was no one Teddy could possibly have drafted to help the rush (while as always ignoring that there are other ways to bolster the roster than just the draft).

And now of course you won't provide the obvious answer that the 2017 OLB would be much better if TT had resigned Peppers to a modest contract and drafted Watt, because you defend Ted from criticism at all costs.

As far as your assertion that Peppers did not want to come back to Green Bay, do you have any evidence to support that?

Because "According to Jason Wilde of ESPN Wisconsin, the Packers did not offer Peppers a contract." 

https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Bolt/Report-Packers-did-not-offer-contract-to-Julius-Peppers--51751307

Or is this going to be like your assertion that Ted Thompson is a better drafter than every other NFL GM, or at least just as good, that you were going to provide evidence of and ...

[CWood21]

I'm done.  Congratulations.

[Packerraymond]

15 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Again, I'll ask you as I did him.  What in the 160 snaps that Fackrell took last year indicated that there would be no development?

He's had one snap his entire career where he did anything. You want a guy who showed you can rely on him as a rook? Blake Martinez. He struggled nightly and got benched last year, but still showed signs that he had starter material. Fackrell did not.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, Packerraymond said:

He's had one snap his entire career where he did anything. You want a guy who showed you can rely on him as a rook? Blake Martinez. He struggled nightly and got benched last year, but still showed signs that he had starter material. Fackrell did not.

We knew it was unlikely at best that he'd be much of a producer as a rookie.  There wasn't very many people (if any) who thought that he could make an impact as a rookie.  Blake Martinez was AWFUL last year, and he really didn't do anything to indicate that he'd make major improvements if we're looking strictly at what they did their rookie year.  But that's part of the projection, you believe that your rookies will improve from Y1 to Y2.  Fackrell didn't, Martinez did.  What I'm asking is there anything from the 2016 season to indicate to you that Fackrell wouldn't develop?  Quite frankly, any answer other than no is going to need some sort of explanation.

[Packerraymond]

13 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

We knew it was unlikely at best that he'd be much of a producer as a rookie.  There wasn't very many people (if any) who thought that he could make an impact as a rookie.  Blake Martinez was AWFUL last year, and he really didn't do anything to indicate that he'd make major improvements if we're looking strictly at what they did their rookie year.  But that's part of the projection, you believe that your rookies will improve from Y1 to Y2.  Fackrell didn't, Martinez did.  What I'm asking is there anything from the 2016 season to indicate to you that Fackrell wouldn't develop?  Quite frankly, any answer other than no is going to need some sort of explanation.

Martinez totally flashed, just inconsistently, same with Clark. This year King, Jones and Jones have flashed. Fackrell did nothing, I had no confidence going into this year based on anything he showed last year. "Gee I hope he makes a 2nd year jump" is not a valid roster building technique at QB, LT or EDGE for any team that has any hopes of contending.

[TransientTexan]

34 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

 Or is this going to be like your assertion that Ted Thompson is a better drafter than every other NFL GM, or at least just as good, that you were going to provide evidence of and ...

You’re the one that essentially made the opposite contention initially, so the burden of proof is on you. But unsurprisingly, you’re too lazy to do your own research and expect others to do it for you. All you will ever do is cherrypick one or two anecdotal situations that confirm your preconceived bias, and neglect any proper reference frame. 

[Stevein2012]

8 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

Putting faith in a guy like Kyler Fackrell is something rebuilding teams can afford, not us. That was a huge mistake IMO. That's the 2nd most important position on the field.

4th OLB isn't the 2nd most important position though.  I don't have much problem going with him there.  Not ideal but it isn't an error that really moves the needle much to go with you 2nd year 3rd round OLB and your 2nd back up.  He's pretty far down the list to me of what's wrong with our defense this year.  If a mistake you can't afford involves your 4th OLB then something else went pretty wrong.