The Pass "Rush" After 7 Games

[CWood21]

3 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

This group has been disproportionately affected by injuries as well. We've had zero contribution from a 4th round pick and a mid-range FA (Biegel and Brooks). Our top guy hasn't been healthy (Perry, club) and our best interior rusher appears to be hampered as well (Daniels).

But injuries are to be expected, and no reason you can't anticipate them.

[Norm]

6 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

But injuries are to be expected, and no reason you can't anticipate them.

Once you have injuries you need to start making trades as fast as you can and sign any street FA, they always work.

[TheOnlyThing]

14 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I'm really hoping this is just a really bad hyperbole, because a 3rd round draft pick shouldn't "kill" a franchise in any way.

I'd agree that Daugherty's statement is a bit much and a 3rd round pick should not be a killer.

However, in GB, where Ted Thompson decided to count on Kyler Fackrell to be a key contributor in 2017 at one of the two most important positions of Dom Capers 3-4 D, Fackrell's performance, or more accurately lack of performance, is certainly one of the factors in the unit's disappointing play to date.

Brooks was listed as still being out of practice yesterday with the back issue. So was Perry for a undisclosed reasons. So Clay is healthy and then we have Kyler.

I would love to see Biegel get some snaps because I am having a hard time believing he could be any worse than Fackrell.

PS Has anyone seen Odom?

[TheOnlyThing]

14 hours ago, incognito_man said:

This group has been disproportionately affected by injuries as well. We've had zero contribution from a 4th round pick and a mid-range FA (Biegel and Brooks). Our top guy hasn't been healthy (Perry, club) and our best interior rusher appears to be hampered as well (Daniels).

Daniels apparent injury may well be contributing to the lack of rush given his huge game 1.

And Brooks being injured is bad luck given his lack of injury history in SF.

However, has there ever been a year when "Our top guy" Nick Perry has not missed a game due to injury and/or played less effectively due to injury? Is a anyone surprised by Perry missing games this year and playing less effectively after his injury?

(I also noticed Perry was listed as OUT at practice yesterday for an undisclosed reason. Hope it was personal reason and not yet another injury).

And speaking of health, knock on wood, has anyone noticed that Clay has played over 80% of the snaps so far and has not gotten injured. I think Clay's good health has been a pleasant surprise so far.

As for Biegel, there was a medical red flag on him at the draft according to one esteemed poster.

Here's hoping Vince is now healthy and can show something in the rush, because someone surely needs to take over Fackrell's snaps ASAP.

 

[Cheesehawk]

5 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Daniels apparent injury may well be contributing to the lack of rush given his huge game 1.

And Brooks being injured is bad luck given his lack of injury history in SF.

However, has there ever been a year when "Our top guy" Nick Perry has not missed a game due to injury and/or played less effectively due to injury? Is a anyone surprised by Perry missing games this year and playing less effectively after his injury?

(I also noticed Perry was listed as OUT at practice yesterday for an undisclosed reason. Hope it was personal reason and not yet another injury).

And speaking of health, knock on wood, has anyone noticed that Clay has played over 80% of the snaps so far and has not gotten injured. I think Clay's good health has been a pleasant surprise so far.

As for Biegel, there was a medical red flag on him at the draft according to one esteemed poster.

Here's hoping Vince is now healthy and can show something in the rush, because someone surely needs to take over Fackrell's snaps ASAP.

 

We just can't have nice things... when he goes down this week, I will shake my fists at the sky and say, "damn you theonlything, damn you"

[MacReady]

Why am I the only one not bitching and moaning about Matthews as a pass rusher and instead begging for him to go inside?  He is still one of the most legitimate playmakers in the NFL.  Remember when people used to say, "We should use Clay Matthews like Von Miller..." back when the Broncos ran a 4-3 hybrid type of defense?  Von Miller has one career interception in seven seasons when the first chunk of his career he was a 4-3 outside linebacker.  Clay has 6 interceptions and 3 touchdowns (NFL.com for some absurd reason doesn't have his rookie strip fumble recovery TD against Peterson on there and I'm going to have to start rioting for them to add it).  He's got some of the best ball skills at OLB in the whole NFL, evident by how easily he scooped up that fumble against the Vikings. 

And he's not even done as a pass rusher.  There have been plays this year where he's finessed his way past tackles in seconds.  On a defense without talent, I don't understand why so many people are so quick to rip into probably our most talented defender just because he's playing a position he shouldn't be playing anymore.  Show me a bigger playmaker on our entire defense right now.  Randall probably, and he's another one who's getting unfair treatment (especially from me).  When your defense is pretty much not good, we probably shouldn't be complaining about our biggest playmakers.  If Matthews was the only pass rusher struggling, complain all you want.  He's not.  Our entire pass rush is struggling, and he's probably the best we have there considering Perry. 

[Kenrik]

Can anyone confirm if Kyler was in the game on the couple plays where we only had 10 players in the game? It could very well be that it didn't matter if Kyler was out there and they kept him on the sideline for rest.

[RoellPreston88]

Is Brooks’ injury really a fluke? We have tons of injuries every year. Seems like the opposite of a fluke to me.

[CWood21]

6 hours ago, TheOnlyThing said:

I'd agree that Daugherty's statement is a bit much and a 3rd round pick should not be a killer.

However, in GB, where Ted Thompson decided to count on Kyler Fackrell to be a key contributor in 2017 at one of the two most important positions of Dom Capers 3-4 D, Fackrell's performance, or more accurately lack of performance, is certainly one of the factors in the unit's disappointing play to date.

Brooks was listed as still being out of practice yesterday with the back issue. So was Perry for a undisclosed reasons. So Clay is healthy and then we have Kyler.

I would love to see Biegel get some snaps because I am having a hard time believing he could be any worse than Fackrell.

PS Has anyone seen Odom?

A bit much?  That might be an understatement if I ever met one.  If a 3rd round pick is "killing" your franchise, what happens when your first round pick is a whiff?  Honestly, a single draft pick should NEVER make or break a franchise, and the rare occasion it might is when you invest a 1st round pick into a QB and he plays multiple years at below-aveage level.  Think like when the Jets stood with Mark Sanchez for far too long.

That being said, I can't believe we're rehashing this discussion.  But let's do it again.  What exactly from the 2016 season told you point blank that Kyler Fackrell would show NO development from Year 1 to Year 2.  You can't.  The Packers gave Fackrell ample time to prove that he was developing, and when he didn't the Packers ended up signing Ahmad Brooks.  Now that Brooks is dealing with an apparently pretty serious back injury, the Packers are forced to play Kyler Fackrell into duty and play a meaningful number of snaps.  Do you truly believe that Fackrell would still be playing 40%+ snaps if everyone was healthy?  If the answer is yes, then I'd love to know why you believe that.  If you think the answer is no, then why do you constantly bring up Fackrell like the fact that he is on the field is somehow his or Dom's fault?  Better yet, I'll do a bit of basic research for you.  Here's the percentage of defensive snaps that a team's 4th OLB (starters are 1 and 2, their primary backup is 3, and their backups backup is 4 fyi).

Green Bay: Kyler Fackrell (38.44%)
Los Angeles (R): Samson Ebukam (18.12%)
Pittsburgh: James Harrison (5.86%)
Baltimore: Tyus Bowser (18.21%)
Indianapolis: Tarell Basham (15.31%)
Kansas City: Tanoh Kpassagnon (2.5%)

I could keep going, but I've already illustrated my point.  You can continue to go do the rest of them if you care, but I'm not gonna do all the work if you're not going to acknowledge what I've been saying.  The only reason Fackrell is playing so much is because of injuries.  He's playing more than double the number of snaps that most teams "4th" OLB is playing.  First it was Nick Perry with his hand injury, and now it's Ahmad Brooks' back.  If you want to be mad at something, be mad at the fact that our primary pass rushers can't stay healthy.  But blaming our issues on Fackrell is crazy.

[CWood21]

6 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Why am I the only one not bitching and moaning about Matthews as a pass rusher and instead begging for him to go inside?  He is still one of the most legitimate playmakers in the NFL.  Remember when people used to say, "We should use Clay Matthews like Von Miller..." back when the Broncos ran a 4-3 hybrid type of defense?  Von Miller has one career interception in seven seasons when the first chunk of his career he was a 4-3 outside linebacker.  Clay has 6 interceptions and 3 touchdowns (NFL.com for some absurd reason doesn't have his rookie strip fumble recovery TD against Peterson on there and I'm going to have to start rioting for them to add it).  He's got some of the best ball skills at OLB in the whole NFL, evident by how easily he scooped up that fumble against the Vikings. 

And he's not even done as a pass rusher.  There have been plays this year where he's finessed his way past tackles in seconds.  On a defense without talent, I don't understand why so many people are so quick to rip into probably our most talented defender just because he's playing a position he shouldn't be playing anymore.  Show me a bigger playmaker on our entire defense right now.  Randall probably, and he's another one who's getting unfair treatment (especially from me).  When your defense is pretty much not good, we probably shouldn't be complaining about our biggest playmakers.  If Matthews was the only pass rusher struggling, complain all you want.  He's not.  Our entire pass rush is struggling, and he's probably the best we have there considering Perry. 

Move his snap % close to the standardish 60%, and I'd bet you get a bit more production out of him.  But him playing 80%+ of the defensive snaps isn't the solution.  He doesn't have the legs he used to have.

[CWood21]

@TheOnlyThing, are you going to agree that Fackrell is being pressed into a role he wasn't supposed to do or you just going to ignore my post?

[Stevein2012]

16 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Why am I the only one not bitching and moaning about Matthews as a pass rusher and instead begging for him to go inside?  He is still one of the most legitimate playmakers in the NFL.  Remember when people used to say, "We should use Clay Matthews like Von Miller..." back when the Broncos ran a 4-3 hybrid type of defense?  Von Miller has one career interception in seven seasons when the first chunk of his career he was a 4-3 outside linebacker.  Clay has 6 interceptions and 3 touchdowns (NFL.com for some absurd reason doesn't have his rookie strip fumble recovery TD against Peterson on there and I'm going to have to start rioting for them to add it).  He's got some of the best ball skills at OLB in the whole NFL, evident by how easily he scooped up that fumble against the Vikings. 

And he's not even done as a pass rusher.  There have been plays this year where he's finessed his way past tackles in seconds.  On a defense without talent, I don't understand why so many people are so quick to rip into probably our most talented defender just because he's playing a position he shouldn't be playing anymore.  Show me a bigger playmaker on our entire defense right now.  Randall probably, and he's another one who's getting unfair treatment (especially from me).  When your defense is pretty much not good, we probably shouldn't be complaining about our biggest playmakers.  If Matthews was the only pass rusher struggling, complain all you want.  He's not.  Our entire pass rush is struggling, and he's probably the best we have there considering Perry. 

Yeah if all Dom is going to do is keep lining him up at OLB and asking him to beat the tackles 1 on 1 while only occasionally moving him around off the ball he's going to keep being just a mediocre player in our defense.  He is pretty done as far as being an Edge player.  Pretty much all of the plays he's made have been on stunt type plays or against TEs.  He's also can't hold the edge well against the run because the only way he can get to the QB is if he runs past the tackle so that's all he ever tries to do.  Clay's move to ILB should have stayed permanent when we did it years ago.  People always forget the mediocre season he was having before we made that move and just treat it like he made some huge sacrifice for the team.

[pollino14]

2 hours ago, Stevein2012 said:

Yeah if all Dom is going to do is keep lining him up at OLB and asking him to beat the tackles 1 on 1 while only occasionally moving him around off the ball he's going to keep being just a mediocre player in our defense.  He is pretty done as far as being an Edge player.  Pretty much all of the plays he's made have been on stunt type plays or against TEs.  He's also can't hold the edge well against the run because the only way he can get to the QB is if he runs past the tackle so that's all he ever tries to do.  Clay's move to ILB should have stayed permanent when we did it years ago.  People always forget the mediocre season he was having before we made that move and just treat it like he made some huge sacrifice for the team.

I get it, Clay would be better moving around, playing inside more. But who takes his spot at OLB? That's a lot of snaps for Biegel, Brooks, Fackrell. Our pass rush has already been lacking. 

[MacReady]

2 hours ago, pollino14 said:

I get it, Clay would be better moving around, playing inside more. But who takes his spot at OLB? That's a lot of snaps for Biegel, Brooks, Fackrell. Our pass rush has already been lacking. 

Nobody takes his spot this season until/unless we're mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, but if we are, that's when we should throw every young player to the wolves and start evaluating for next year. 

[CWood21]

3 hours ago, pollino14 said:

I get it, Clay would be better moving around, playing inside more. But who takes his spot at OLB? That's a lot of snaps for Biegel, Brooks, Fackrell. Our pass rush has already been lacking. 

That's part of the reason why I don't think Clay gets released this offseason.  That's a TON of snaps to account for.  Even if they double-dipped and took two EDGEs in the draft, they're still going to have to rely on those rookies and/or Kyler Fackrell.