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1 minute ago, kyle21121 said:

Also what leverage does Philly exactly have in a Simmons deal right now...

I'd say a decent amount just because he's under contract for 4 more years so it's not like he can force his way to a team he wants to play for. 

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Just now, Texansfan713 said:

they dont have leverage period.  his contract is atrocious. 

Atrocious? He has 4 years/$146M left on his deal and is only 25 years old. He has never had any serious injury issues and is one of the best/most versatile defenders in the league and one of the best playmakers in the league. John Wall and Russell Westbrook's contracts are 10x worse. 

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1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

I'd say a decent amount just because he's under contract for 4 more years so it's not like he can force his way to a team he wants to play for. 

That is true but I’m going the other way with this like with the way everything has gone down thus far it doesn’t seem like he will be there on opening night. 

 

2 minutes ago, Texansfan713 said:

they dont have leverage period.  his contract is atrocious. 

Exactly 

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4 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

For Philadelphia though they've come up short in the playoffs with Simmons/Embiid surrounded by extremely talented teams. All the advanced stats aside, Simmons is limited as a scorer and his inability to score outside of the paint makes it hard for them to win in the playoffs because Embiid is also at his best around the rim. Beal is legit one of the best pure scorers in the league and a good playmaker as well. Assuming Philly keeps Thybulle and can add a veteran PG that defends well, I don't think Beal's defense would be an issue. Thybulle/Embiid are both All-NBA defensive guys. 

I'm not arguing swapping players would help Philly.  But its the value of it.  I get Philly is stuck and could use an upgrade but again, if Ben plays to his career and playoff averages, they breeze through the ATL series.  He failed, and that knocks his value but it was mental and that can easily be overcome.  I don't doubt they can improve and win the East if Ben plays to his averages.  They probably need some extra scoring from the bench and wings but maxey and other depth could provide that.  

During that series, Joel Embiid had a lower offensive rating and OBPM than Simmons did. Yes he was coming off an injury but nobody talks about his help in not getting the job done. He scored but had a boat load of turnovers the last two games.  They also got nothing from the rest of their team aside from Curry and Harris.  People remember the free throws and needed a scapegoat and Ben was it.  

I am sure a change of scenery will help, but I also don't think Ben's value should be trash because of one series or a few games in that series.  You mention Beal's rare scoring but only 8 players have averaged 16/8/8 in a season and Ben almost averages that for his career. 

Again my whole point is why does Ben get trashed for that small stretch, but Beal gets a free pass to play so so defense and give up as many points as he scores.  Ben doesnt score but he also doesnt allow points scored on him, hence the very similar BPM.  And he is a great playmaker for others and a very good rebounder.   Value wise Simmons should be worth more given his all around game, contract and age.  The only thing making him trash is a few playoff games. 

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Just now, kyle21121 said:

That is true but I’m going the other way with this like with the way everything has gone down thus far it doesn’t seem like he will be there on opening night. 

Exactly 

They don't have to trade him though and I'm sure they'll be adamant on getting a solid return for him. 

And how is his contract atrocious? Philadelphia was just the #1 seed in the East with him and has been a top 3 seed every year he has been healthy, lol. And in two of those years they were a couple of plays away from the ECF. Embiid has also crapped the bed in the playoffs for them. 

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5 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Atrocious? He has 4 years/$146M left on his deal and is only 25 years old. He has never had any serious injury issues and is one of the best/most versatile defenders in the league and one of the best playmakers in the league. John Wall and Russell Westbrook's contracts are 10x worse. 

he is also a guy who cant shoot and had a terrible playoff performance this past season.  IDC how versatile you are.  Thats not worth 146 mil over the next 4 years. 

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2 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I am sure a change of scenery will help, but I also don't think Ben's value should be trash because of one series or a few games in that series.  You mention Beal's rare scoring but only 8 players have averaged 16/8/8 in a season and Ben almost averages that for his career. 

Again my whole point is why does Ben get trashed for that small stretch, but Beal gets a free pass to play so so defense and give up as many points as he scores.  Ben doesnt score but he also doesnt allow points scored on him, hence the very similar BPM.  And he is a great playmaker for others and a very good rebounder.   Value wise Simmons should be worth more given his all around game, contract and age.  The only thing making him trash is a few playoff games. 

16/8/8 is an okay stat line but Beal has legit put up prime Kobe/Jordan scoring numbers the last two seasons. 

Beal has been on a terrible team, Booker has been a worse defender/scorer on a non-playoff team every year of his career up until this season when they made some major roster upgrades. So to think that Beal couldn't go to a better team/situation and do what Booker did is foolish. Even this year Booker scored less and played worse defense than Beal and he was the #1 option on a finals team, lol. 

Simmons doesn't get trashed just for that small stretch, he gets trashed because he literally hasn't made any improvements over the 4 years he has been in the league and cannot shoot, like at all. The name of the game is putting the ball into the hoop and you want guys that can space the floor around a big like Embiid, Simmons doesn't do that. 

If they're acquiring Beal they're not acquiring him to be a lock down defensive player. They're acquiring him to be the robin to Embiid's batman. Embiid/Thybulle's elite defense should be able to cover up some of Beal's defensive short comings and as we've seen in the past when he wasn't asked to carry as big of a load he was an okay defensive player. 

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7 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

They don't have to trade him though and I'm sure they'll be adamant on getting a solid return for him. 

And how is his contract atrocious? Philadelphia was just the #1 seed in the East with him and has been a top 3 seed every year he has been healthy, lol. And in two of those years they were a couple of plays away from the ECF. Embiid has also crapped the bed in the playoffs for them. 

Solid return? Maybe. Not what they are asking for and if Morey has went around to all 29 teams and offered Simmons for some variation of what he reportedly asked from SA and TO that’s not close and also if they are offering him up to everyone that sure doesn’t sound like they are likely to keep him. 

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1 minute ago, kyle21121 said:

Solid return? Maybe. Not what they are asking for and if Morey has went around to all 29 teams and offered Simmons for some variation of what he reportedly asked from SA and TO that’s not close and also if they are offering him up to everyone that sure doesn’t sound like they are likely to keep him. 

Philly's best option is to send a package built around Simmons to Washington for Beal. 

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1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

Philly's best option is to send a package built around Simmons to Washington for Beal. 

There are several IFs involved with that deal to even take place but yes if that is an option and I’m assuming they are looking at Beal and Dame first before giving him away but aside from one of these players becoming available there won’t be a scenario in which they get a kings ransom for Simmons. A random desperate team may pop up and offer a solid enough deal. 

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@Sllim Pickens when it comes to Simmons too, I just think it'll be hard to win with him in Philly. Jimmy Butler pretty much said he ain't playing with him, Doc Rivers threw shade at him, and so did Embiid. When have we seen this with any other player? lol

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1 minute ago, kyle21121 said:

There are several IFs involved with that deal to even take place but yes if that is an option and I’m assuming they are looking at Beal and Dame first before giving him away but aside from one of these players becoming available there won’t be a scenario in which they get a kings ransom for Simmons. A random desperate team may pop up and offer a solid enough deal. 

Agreed. I think Washington makes the most sense because Beal can opt out after this season so there's a strong possibility that they lose him for nothing. They're a small market team that isn't going to be a major player in free agency either way so adding Simmons, a 25 year old All-Star, plus other young pieces/draft capital is better than just letting Beal walk. Plus they'd have Simmons under contract for 4 more years.

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O’Conner says the 76ers wanted a haul from the Spurs that included the Spurs sending Philadelphia one of their young core players and much more. “There’s so much stuff floating out there right now about the Sixers having outrageous demands like wanting four first-round draft picks, and three pick swaps, and a young player from the Spurs they say now. All these deals you hear about are outrageous. Nobody will do it for Ben Simmons.”

 

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