Training Camp Thread......

[WindyCity]

Teven White still out.

11 practices, 3 off days, 1 preseason game.

 

[HuskieBear]

16 hours ago, soulman said:

Different skill set.  Jones can also rush from the edge so could conceivably be used as an OLB as well.  Jones cap hit is even less than Iggy's and Ogletree probably signed a similar deal  so the deciding factor may come down to STeams.  I know Jones played ST last time he was here.  I don't know about Ogletree but if he keeps picking off passes like he's been doing I don't think he'll need to worry about it. 

Desai will want him.

Ogletree has played 187 ST snaps in his career, with 82 coming in his rookie year. FYI

[soulman]

1 hour ago, HuskieBear said:

Ogletree has played 187 ST snaps in his career, with 82 coming in his rookie year. FYI

Thank brother.  So he has played ST but not all that much since his rookie year.

Of course I believe he's been a starter over most of his career so that would explain why he's not played as much on ST.

[Nads786]

3 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Teven White still out.

11 practices, 3 off days, 1 preseason game.

 

It's concerning for sure. This feels like Gabe Camrini. 

[Madmike90]

For me there is only one question to ask around Jenkins absence from practice...is this preseason back tightness or in season back tightness? Because if we are saying to this young guy not to worry it's only preseason don't rush yourself back I don't have a massive issue with it...if however its a situation where he couldn't play through it in a regular season game then it becomes a concern...I would have no issue with him missing the first two preseason games...play in the 3rd then start the regular season.

[soulman]

33 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

For me there is only one question to ask around Jenkins absence from practice...is this preseason back tightness or in season back tightness? Because if we are saying to this young guy not to worry it's only preseason don't rush yourself back I don't have a massive issue with it...if however its a situation where he couldn't play through it in a regular season game then it becomes a concern...I would have no issue with him missing the first two preseason games...play in the 3rd then start the regular season.

What bothers me is this ongoing description of his issue as "back tightness".  It concerns me because it's what I've experienced for most of my life.

Through a series of back injuries dating all the way back to HS and carrying on throughout my adult life I've incurred a fair amount of soft tissue damage that has never quite healed and never will.  The end result is that I suffer from muscle spasms that at times have required a significant amount of treatment with muscle relaxers, steroid injections, and massage therapy to alleviate.

As I've gotten older much of this has also resulted in constant muscle tightness and spasms in my lower back and enough long term damage to prevent me from golfing or skiing any longer both of which I dearly love to do.  Some of his may also be hereditary as my Dad also suffers from chronic back problems so for me it's hard to separate what may be injury related and what may simply be hereditary.

IME a well conditioned 23 year old athlete shouldn't be experiencing what Jenkins is unless; A) He did sustain a back injury in the offseason, B) He sustained one in college that was never disclosed, or C) He has a chronic back problem as a result of previous injuries or it's hereditary.  What we don't know is what's causing his problem yet I'm 100% certain that Nagy and Pace know very well what's up with him.

I'll finally come out and say it.  The mere fact that we're not being told that it's minor issue caused by working out or something sustained in OTAs is what's foreboding.  Based on my own experience and that of my father it sure seems to me this is the kind of stuff one goes through hoping for some relief but also as a precursor to surgery and for obvious reasons Pace is lax to admit he may have blown it again.

I hope that I'm completely wrong about this but simple "sore back" issues don't typically last this long with the kind of treatment available to pro athletes.  This doesn't look good especially when Nagy is remaining mum about what's really going on with Jenkins and simply whistling in the dark hoping for the best.  It's also a bit odd that the media guys haven't been more aggressive about pinning him down about it.

It is possible the reason Jenkins slid into the 2nd round is teams did uncover an injury issue that caused them to take him off their boards.  What I'm concerned with is the next move we may see is Jenkins moved to the PUP for now followed by a move to IR and an announcement that he will be undergoing back surgery.  Once that happens IMHO we may as well kiss his career as a pro goodbye. This doesn't look good at all.

Edited August 10, 2021 by soulman

[Superman(DH23)]

5 hours ago, soulman said:

What bothers me is this ongoing description of his issue as "back tightness".  It concerns me because it's what I've experienced for most of my life.

Through a series of back injuries dating all the way back to HS and carrying on throughout my adult life I've incurred a fair amount of soft tissue damage that has never quite healed and never will.  The end result is that I suffer from muscle spasms that at times have required a significant amount of treatment with muscle relaxers, steroid injections, and massage therapy to alleviate.

As I've gotten older much of this has also resulted in constant muscle tightness and spasms in my lower back and enough long term damage to prevent me from golfing or skiing any longer both of which I dearly love to do.  Some of his may also be hereditary as my Dad also suffers from chronic back problems so for me it's hard to separate what may be injury related and what may simply be hereditary.

IME a well conditioned 23 year old athlete shouldn't be experiencing what Jenkins is unless; A) He did sustain a back injury in the offseason, B) He sustained one in college that was never disclosed, or C) He has a chronic back problem as a result of previous injuries or it's hereditary.  What we don't know is what's causing his problem yet I'm 100% certain that Nagy and Pace know very well what's up with him.

I'll finally come out and say it.  The mere fact that we're not being told that it's minor issue caused by working out or something sustained in OTAs is what's foreboding.  Based on my own experience and that of my father it sure seems to me this is the kind of stuff one goes through hoping for some relief but also as a precursor to surgery and for obvious reasons Pace is lax to admit he may have blown it again.

I hope that I'm completely wrong about this but simple "sore back" issues don't typically last this long with the kind of treatment available to pro athletes.  This doesn't look good especially when Nagy is remaining mum about what's really going on with Jenkins and simply whistling in the dark hoping for the best.  It's also a bit odd that the media guys haven't been more aggressive about pinning him down about it.

It is possible the reason Jenkins slid into the 2nd round is teams did uncover an injury issue that caused them to take him off their boards.  What I'm concerned with is the next move we may see is Jenkins moved to the PUP for now followed by a move to IR and an announcement that he will be undergoing back surgery.  Once that happens IMHO we may as well kiss his career as a pro goodbye. This doesn't look good at all.

As a 14 yo, with no injury issues before, and in great health, I got back spasms, every step and breath hurt like hell.  All I could do was rest, heat, ice for 2 weeks, tried to get back at it after that, made it about 15 mins into practice, and the pain came flooding back.  Ended up going on muscle relaxers to go with the heat and ice for another 2 weeks, finally able to return.  Havent had any related issues in the last 27 years.  My point is simply, you're experience isnt a basis for a medical opinion.  I think Suga's message above is apropos, we dont know if this is overly cautious or if this would keep him out in the regular season.  We do know that they said it started a week or so before camp.  

As for a college injury, I just looked it up, he missed 1 game of college football in 4 years.  I dont think there is something undisclosed that caused anybody to take him off their board.  The draft just fell right for the Bears to get him at a slight value.  This isn't a guy who was projected top 10 by pundits.  It's a guy who was projected late 1st and the Bears got him early 2nd.  

[soulman]

2 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

As a 14 yo, with no injury issues before, and in great health, I got back spasms, every step and breath hurt like hell.  All I could do was rest, heat, ice for 2 weeks, tried to get back at it after that, made it about 15 mins into practice, and the pain came flooding back.  Ended up going on muscle relaxers to go with the heat and ice for another 2 weeks, finally able to return.  Havent had any related issues in the last 27 years.  My point is simply, you're experience isnt a basis for a medical opinion.  I think Suga's message above is apropos, we dont know if this is overly cautious or if this would keep him out in the regular season.  We do know that they said it started a week or so before camp.  

As for a college injury, I just looked it up, he missed 1 game of college football in 4 years.  I dont think there is something undisclosed that caused anybody to take him off their board.  The draft just fell right for the Bears to get him at a slight value.  This isn't a guy who was projected top 10 by pundits.  It's a guy who was projected late 1st and the Bears got him early 2nd.  

True, it's not an opinion that's based on anything other than personal experience.  But I also played a lot of sports, golfed, and skied following those initial injuries as well before the last accident caused "the final blow".  I've golfed and skied exactly once each since or should I say I made attempts to.  But at that point I was also significantly older than Jenkins is now so that's a positive.

My point is only that what he's experiencing is at least somewhat abnormal and from there I just speculated on possible causes more or less because we haven't really been given one.  But until I can see Pace making some moves that indicate he's bringing in help at LT I'll keep hoping for the best while fearing the worst as someone with a long history of back issues would naturally do.

I'm not really strong on the college injury theory either yet it wouldn't be the only time we've drafted a player with an undisclosed injury and we're not alone in that regard either.  If it began just a week or two before camp it would seem more likely he either strained it doing some lifting or it's also possible that it's caused by tension simply caused by his anticipation of camp.  I've also had that happen.

I'm just spitballin' possibilities is all because unless he can practice very soon we are gonna need to make some alternate arrangements for some help at OT because both projected starters are down with injuries and can't practice or take part in preseason games.  At the very least we could use both Borom and Bars at OT if healthy and non-infected.  They're a better choice than Simmons and Wilkenson.

[soulman]

https://www.chicagobears.com/team/depth-chart

Offense

Offense

Position	1st String	2nd String	3rd String	Other
WR	Darnell Mooney	Damiere Byrd	Rodney Adams	Jon'Vea Johnson
TE	Cole Kmet	Jimmy Graham	Jesse James	J.P. Holtz Jesper Horsted Scooter Harrington
RT	Lachavious Simmons	Tyrone Wheatley Jr.
RG	James Daniels	Alex Bars
C	Sam Mustipher	Dieter Eiselen	Adam Redmond
LG	Cody Whitehair	Arlington Hambright	Dareuan Parker
LT	Elijah Wilkinson	Teven Jenkins	Larry Borom	Badara Traore
QB	Andy Dalton	Justin Fields	Nick Foles
RB	David Montgomery	Damien Williams	Khalil Herbert	Ryan Nall Artavis Pierce CJ Marable
WR	Allen Robinson II	Chris Lacy	Justin Hardy	Dazz Newsome
WR	Marquise Goodwin	Riley Ridley	Javon Wims	Jester Weah Thomas Ives

 

Defense

Defense

Position	1st String	2nd String	3rd String	Other
DT	Akiem Hicks	Angelo Blackson	LaCale London
NT	Khyiris Tonga	Mike Pennel
DE	Bilal Nichols	Mario Edwards Jr.	Daniel Archibong
OLB	Khalil Mack	Trevis Gipson	James Vaughters	Charles Snowden
ILB	Danny Trevathan	Christian Jones	Josh Woods	Caleb Johnson
ILB	Roquan Smith	Joel Iyiegbuniwe	Alec Ogletree	Austin Calitro
OLB	Robert Quinn	Jeremiah Attaochu	Ledarius Mack	Sam Kamara
CB	Jaylon Johnson	Artie Burns	Thomas Graham Jr.	Tre Roberson
S	Tashaun Gipson Sr.	DeAndre Houston-Carson	Teez Tabor	Michael Joseph
S	Eddie Jackson	Deon Bush	Marqui Christian	Jordan Lucas
CB	Kindle Vildor	Desmond Trufant	Duke Shelley	Xavier Crawford Dionte Ruffin

 

Special Teams

Special Teams

Position	1st String	2nd String	3rd String	Other
P	Pat O'Donnell
K	Cairo Santos	Brian Johnson
LS	Patrick Scales
H	Pat O'Donnell
KR	Khalil Herbert	Chris Lacy	Rodney Adams	Jon'Vea Johnson
PR	Damiere Byrd	Darnell Mooney	Dazz Newsome	CJ Marable

 

•  

[soulman]

Bears' Matt Nagy details preseason plan for starters, Justin Fields

Adam Hoge

Tue, August 10, 2021, 12:30 PM

 

 

Matt Nagy unveils preseason plan for Bears, Justin Fields originally appeared on NBC Sports Chicago

LAKE FOREST -- Matt Nagy has seen the downside of resting his starters in the preseason. In 2018, he surprisingly sat his starters in the third preseason game against the Chiefs and in 2019 he took it a step further by sitting them the entire preseason.

The Bears went 12-4 in 2018, but after an 8-8 record in 2019, Nagy expressed some regret about his preseason strategy and planned to play his starters more before COVID-19 wiped out all four preseason games in 2020.

Now with three preseason games at his disposal in 2021, Nagy expects to go with a more traditional playing time deployment, while acknowledging that the reps are “going to be more individual based than it is by like first team, second team, third team per se.”

Reps for Saturday’s first preseason game against the Dolphins will also be impacted by what happens Wednesday and Thursday in joint practices between the teams at Halas Hall.

Tuesday morning, Nagy detailed the plans for the week – both in the practices and the game – including the expectation for rookie quarterback Justin Fields:

Joint practice plan

Nagy and Dolphins head coach Brian Flores have been in frequent contact over the last several weeks planning for these practices. Nagy said that communication has included e-mails, texts and calls.

“We’re talking all the time because we want to make sure that this thing goes the right way,” Nagy said. “You always have the rules of engagement. Guys get juiced up and go. You want to eliminate fighting. You just want to just be competitive. Be smart. When you have two head coaches that believe in the same things like we do, we’ll talk to the guys up front on that and let the guys compete.”

Both teams want the practices to be competitive, but without fighting and major injuries. Since Ryan Pace became the Bears’ general manager in 2015, the team has practiced against the Colts, Patriots and Broncos and were supposed to practice against the Broncos again last year before the pandemic wiped those sessions out. This will be the first time the Bears host another team at the newly renovated and expanded Halas Hall and the value of the practices lies in players being able to get valuable reps against an actual opponent.

“Our guys are so used to seeing the same stuff. Offense and defense, they’re seeing all the same players, the same plays, the same techniques and how you do things. It’s a total changeup now. Somebody’s going to have a different move coming off the edge. So that part is great,” Nagy said.

Preseason game plan

For many seasoned veterans, the practices might provide enough valuable reps that the coaching staff decides to hold them out of Saturday’s game completely. That’s why Nagy said the playing time might be “individual based.”

But Nagy won’t hold the entire first team out. The plan is to play the starting unit for a series or two, as is typical for the first preseason game. It’s really the play count that matters and Nagy said the ideal number is 8-10 plays.

“Some guys might be less and some might be a few more,” he said.

Plan for Justin Fields

So where does Fields fall on the rep scale? Well, you better believe that some of Nagy’s regret of the 2019 season came from the obvious observation that Mitchell Trubisky could have used those reps. Would they have changed the trajectory of his career in Chicago? Probably not, but they still would have helped him during that season, which was a step backward.

That mistake won’t be replicated with Fields, especially in his rookie year.

“The only way we can evaluate is by seeing him play. He’s gotta get valuable reps,” Nagy said.  “As we go through these three games, being able to just see what he can do with different players and different teammates, it could be first, second or third team across the board.”

Insert the “thinking” emoji here, because that might have been an admission that Fields could receive a few reps with first-teamers in the preseason. It’s certainly something to watch.

Of course, keeping Fields healthy is still a priority and Nagy admitted that the attrition on the offensive line will have an impact on how the rookie is used.

“It definitely does. I think when we say that, there’s some ways to work through some of that. If you flip it and you say, OK, what is the other team gonna do? Most of the time, too, they’re playing their starters for 1-2 series. We’ll just have to make sure that schematically we do some things we need to do.”

Translation: The Bears will make sure the offensive linemen in front of Fields aren’t at an obvious disadvantage against the Dolphins’ starters. That goes back to the game planning with Flores for the practices and the game this week. Both teams should be on the same page.

It also could mean getting the ball out quicker to make sure Fields doesn’t take any big hits.

As for what Nagy wants to see from Fields?

“I want him to be able to cut it loose and play without thinking. Stay within what we do and the progressions, but just kinda let your personality show on the football field,” the head coach said. “The other stuff that we critique him on — the tempo in and out of the huddle and all that — that’ll happen on its own. Now we get to truly see what we can do when the lights are on and he’s playing full speed and it’s live.”

The fans can’t wait to see it either.

[dll2000]

They put Ogletree 3rd string.

Not sure what you have to do to move up a depth chart with Bears sometimes.  Apparently practice performance is not how it is done.

 

 

 

[soulman]

7 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

They put Ogletree 3rd string.

Not sure what you have to do to move up a depth chart with Bears sometimes.  Apparently practice performance is not how it is done.

 

 

 

It's just an initial depth chart.  Ogletree hasn't been in camp all that long nor has he been tested on STeams which he says he's more than happy to play as well.  After another week or two and a couple of preseason games I suspect he may move up.

There are some other oddities as well.

Like Byrd at the "Z" WR spot and Goodwin in the Slot WR spot when most thought it would be the other way around.

And Wilkinson is listed ahead of both Jenkins and Borom at LT although it appears that Borom was more impressive.  But with Borom on concussion protocol and Jenkins still dealing with his mystery back ailment I guess that's to be expected.

Ifedi and Cohen are also missing due to being on the PUP which is where Jenkins may end up as well.

I wouldn't put much stock in this yet.  I think it's just something they can use for this initial workout and game with Miami.

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, soulman said:

It's just an initial depth chart.  Ogletree hasn't been in camp all that long nor has he been tested on STeams which he says he's more than happy to play as well.  After another week or two and a couple of preseason games I suspect he may move up.

There are some other oddities as well.

Like Byrd at the "Z" WR spot and Goodwin in the Slot WR spot when most thought it would be the other way around.

And Wilkinson is listed ahead of both Jenkins and Borom at LT although it appears that Borom was more impressive.  But with Borom on concussion protocol and Jenkins still dealing with his mystery back ailment I guess that's to be expected.

Ifedi and Cohen are also missing due to being on the PUP which is where Jenkins may end up as well.

I wouldn't put much stock in this yet.  I think it's just something they can use for this initial workout and game with Miami.

Oh I know.  But I also know Bears don't play people that should play.

Also, they want O line to be Jenkins, Whitehair, Mustipher, Daniels, Ifedi with Wilkinson as swing tackle.   Backed by Borom and Simmons.  

But Jenkins, Ifedi, Wilkinson, Borom, and Simmons have been out.   That is your top 5 OTs.  Not linemen.  OTs.  All out last week.  

That is an insane run on one position.  

Wilkinson just came back so there is that.

The Bears have been playing roulette on OT talent for years now.   

They have been exceedingly lucky that Massie and Leno were so durable for so long and waited way too long to start drafting OT prospects.

If Jenkins ends up getting back surgery that will be a huge bummer.    If Ifedi and Jenkins don't play this year and play fairly well the Bears are toast.  The schedule is just too hard to overcome that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dll2000]

https://ontapsportsnet.com/2021/08/11/chicago-bears-knew-about-teven-jenkins-back-injury-before-nfl-draft/

 

[soulman]

17 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

As a 14 yo, with no injury issues before, and in great health, I got back spasms, every step and breath hurt like hell.  All I could do was rest, heat, ice for 2 weeks, tried to get back at it after that, made it about 15 mins into practice, and the pain came flooding back.  Ended up going on muscle relaxers to go with the heat and ice for another 2 weeks, finally able to return.  Havent had any related issues in the last 27 years.  My point is simply, you're experience isnt a basis for a medical opinion.  I think Suga's message above is apropos, we dont know if this is overly cautious or if this would keep him out in the regular season.  We do know that they said it started a week or so before camp.  

As for a college injury, I just looked it up, he missed 1 game of college football in 4 years.  I dont think there is something undisclosed that caused anybody to take him off their board.  The draft just fell right for the Bears to get him at a slight value.  This isn't a guy who was projected top 10 by pundits.  It's a guy who was projected late 1st and the Bears got him early 2nd.  

Ahem......as I was saying.  So once again our GM rolled the draft dice on an OT with back problems.....😒

Teven Jenkins out with a back injury, Bears were “well aware” of issues before draft

Josh Alper

Wed, August 11, 2021, 9:55 AM

It wasn’t long after the Bears traded up to select Teven Jenkins in the second round that he was installed as the likely starter at left tackle this season, but Jenkins hasn’t been able to solidify that spot in training camp.

A back injury has kept Jenkins from getting on the field at all during camp and Elijah Wilkinson is now listed as the No. 1 left tackle on the team’s depth chart. During a Wednesday appearance on 670 The Score, Bears head coach Matt Nagy said the team was aware of Jenkins’ history of back issues when they drafted him and that everyone is working to get the rookie back on the field.

“Teven is doing everything he can right now to get through this,” Nagy said. “We were well aware of everything, with some of the back issues that he had in college. Right now, this is just a part of the process, and we know that. So we’re just going to keep staying positive with him, and we have a plan with Andre Tucker, our head trainer, and our doctors. Obviously, Teven is frustrated, because he wants to be out here with his brothers. But right now, that’s not the case. He’s just doing everything he can do each day to get better in the training room.”

Jenkins’ back problems may not have taken the Bears by surprise, but they’re messing up the plans for the offensive line this season and that’s nothing the team needs when improvement on that side of the ball is a must for the 2021 season.

Edited August 11, 2021 by soulman