Chase Young turning into a bust?

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, ACO said:

You think Micah is bust material? Please explain because I think he has been playing very well. 

I agree I don’t know what @Thaiphoon is talking about in terms of Parsons in him being an underachiever and if he doesn’t fix it will be a bust.

What?

Where is that coming from? Right now he looks like the favorite to be DPOY & he’s one of the main reasons why the Cowboys D has improved and is certainly playing better than the Washington defense right now.

If you watch the Dallas games, Parsons has been forced to play some as a DE or stand up OLB as if Dallas was running a 3-4. That’s why he has 2.5 sacks in his first month playing in the NFL. He’s also great against the run & athletic enough to be a true LB as well.

Let’s put it this way, if Chase Young had the 2.5 sacks that refs took away from him this year, we wouldn’t even have this thread right now bc even those who predicted/almost seem want Chase to be a bust despite him being a #2 pick on their favorite team would be saying 2.5 sacks in 4 games in his 2nd season is good, but I expect more.

Well, Parsons is already doing that, while playing as a rush LB/DE instead of his natural position of 4-3 MLB or OLB.

[Thaiphoon]

57 minutes ago, ACO said:

You think Micah is bust material? Please explain because I think he has been playing very well. 

Seriously. Go watch his games again. The only time he has gotten pressure on the QB when rushing was when he was going against the Chargers RT Norton (who is a former UDFA who has gone from team to team and is not really a world beater). When he went against Slater, he got his arse handed to him. 

Watch his pass rush. Unless he gets around the blocker with his speed, he gets stoned by the blocker.

He has no strength. He's more like a DB in this area and has been routinely pushed around by WRs. 

Poor against the run (Dallas subs him out on obvious rushing downs - wonder why that is?)

Is he athletically gifted? Yup. Is he an underachiever? Yup. 

Guy makes one or two flash plays in 4 games. He plays when he wants to. He reminds me a lot of Jamie Collins in this respect.

Couple all that ^^^^ with the off field stuff that is still a concern (and his idiotic comparison of the Dallas LB corps as a "terrorist attack") and this guy is not long for this league. 

 

[Thaiphoon]

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

I agree I don’t know what @Thaiphoon is talking about in terms of Parsons in him being an underachiever and if he doesn’t fix it will be a bust.

What?

Where is that coming from? Right now he looks like the favorite to be DPOY & he’s one of the main reasons why the Cowboys D has improved and is certainly playing better than the Washington defense right now.

If you watch the Dallas games, Parsons has been forced to play some as a DE or stand up OLB as if Dallas was running a 3-4. That’s why he has 2.5 sacks in his first month playing in the NFL. He’s also great against the run & athletic enough to be a true LB as well.

Let’s put it this way, if Chase Young had the 2.5 sacks that refs took away from him this year, we wouldn’t even have this thread right now bc even those who predicted/almost seem want Chase to be a bust despite him being a #2 pick on their favorite team would be saying 2.5 sacks in 4 games in his 2nd season is good, but I expect more.

Well, Parsons is already doing that, while playing as a rush LB/DE instead of his natural position of 4-3 MLB or OLB.

LOL. One of those "sacks" was a coverage sack on Herbert where Herbert couldn't get the pass back to the LOS. Like I said, watch him again. He's getting way too much hype that I don't think is warranted.

As for the comparison. Micah hasn't even had a great season yet like Chase did last season. Which is why this "down" 4 games for Chase is not too much of a knock against him. Meanwhile, what Micah has put on tape is not that great IMHO. 

Again, he's gonna flash. But other times he just stands there watching like the fans in the stands. Which is why I said he reminds me of Jamie Collins. Only plays when he wants to 

[ACO]

Yeah am just not seeing what you are seeing but we shall see. I mean who thought we would have this thread last year about Chase...

[turtle28]

1 minute ago, Thaiphoon said:

Seriously. Go watch his games again. The only time he has gotten pressure on the QB when rushing was when he was going against the Chargers RT Norton (who is a former UDFA who has gone from team to team and is not really a world beater). When he went against Slater, he got his arse handed to him. 

Watch his pass rush. Unless he gets around the blocker with his speed, he gets stoned by the blocker.

He has no strength. He's more like a DB in this area and has been routinely pushed around by WRs. 

Poor against the run (Dallas subs him out on obvious rushing downs - wonder why that is?)

Is he athletically gifted? Yup. Is he an underachiever? Yup. 

Guy makes one or two flash plays in 4 games. He plays when he wants to. He reminds me a lot of Jamie Collins in this respect.

Couple all that ^^^^ with the off field stuff that is still a concern (and his idiotic comparison of the Dallas LB corps as a "terrorist attack") and this guy is not long for this league. 

 

Well for one let’s keep this to football, and I shouldn’t have to say that to a moderator.

Parsons has been asked to play out of position bc Lawrence got hurt. We all know this, so you have to take that into consideration. He should be playing as a 4-3 LB bc that’s what he’s been his whole life but he’s being asked to play like a 3-4 OLB. On top of that, he didn’t even play football last year bc of COVID-19, so you’d think he’d be further behind than what he is.
 

Statistically, he’s had a great first month of the season and if Chase had these kind of stats, we wouldn’t even have this thread open bc those who think Chase will fail wouldn’t have much to say:

17 tackles, 2 passes defensed, 3 tackles for loss & 7 QB hits.

That’s a hell of a way to start off your pro career. 

[turtle28]

2 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

LOL. One of those "sacks" was a coverage sack on Herbert where Herbert couldn't get the pass back to the LOS. Like I said, watch him again. He's getting way too much hype that I don't think is warranted.

As for the comparison. Micah hasn't even had a great season yet like Chase did last season. Which is why this "down" 4 games for Chase is not too much of a knock against him. Meanwhile, what Micah has put on tape is not that great IMHO. 

Again, he's gonna flash. But other times he just stands there watching like the fans in the stands. Which is why I said he reminds me of Jamie Collins. Only plays when he wants to 

The sacks all count the same buddy. Do you think the Cowboys care that their rookie LB got them a 10 yard loss on a play bc Herbert didn’t throw it past the line of scrimmage?

The Jamie Collins comp is awful. First off Collins is a tired old vet, Collins didn’t play lazy like a vet who looks done when he was a young player for NE.

Secondly, I don’t know what play you’re talking about but him just standing there watching sounds like an extreme exaggeration just like those who called Chase Young & the rest of the DL lazy on ESPN and NFLN by pointing to one or two plays in a game.

Come on man, you’re better than that.

[Thaiphoon]

20 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Well for one let’s keep this to football, and I shouldn’t have to say that to a moderator.

I am keeping it to football. I'm not talking about politics or real world goings-on. My point was that he is an idiot to compare the corps to it. That tells me he's a Grade-A knucklehead.

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Parsons has been asked to play out of position bc Lawrence got hurt. We all know this, so you have to take that into consideration. He should be playing as a 4-3 LB bc that’s what he’s been his whole life but he’s being asked to play like a 3-4 OLB. On top of that, he didn’t even play football last year bc of COVID-19, so you’d think he’d be further behind than what he is.

Um...he's playing LB. I understand the skillsets and responsibilities are different between 4-3 LB and 3-4 LB but lots of players are asked to switch. Kerrigan didn't seem to have too much trouble making the switch from DE to 3-4 LB. 

As for being out all last year, that's great. But that doesn't tell me anything about his motivation to play. On BOTH Darnold TD runs he was nowhere. He gave up on the plays. (For example on one --> 2Q he was jogging toward the endzone instead of running at Darnold when Darnold was still 7 yards away from the goal line. Kinda the same play Collins did in the earlier clip I showed you). And when he was at ILB in key short yardage situations, he just watched the play happen. I kid you not.

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Statistically, he’s had a great first month of the season and if Chase had these kind of stats, we wouldn’t even have this thread open bc those who think Chase will fail wouldn’t have much to say:

17 tackles, 2 passes defensed, 3 tackles for loss & 7 QB hits.

That’s a hell of a way to start off your pro career. 

 

Those are not world-beating stats. And like I said, 4 of the hits came against Storm, who isn't good. The bulk of the tackles were in Game 1 when he was most excited to play. He's been mostly absent since Week 1.

Seriously. Get a game pass or the All-22 and just watch #11 play each play. Grade every play (not just the ones where he decides to play) and then come back and tell me you see DROY candidate. From what I've seen in the games I've watched, he has severely underwhelmed me. And since he plays for Dallas, I hope he doesn't turn it around and prove me wrong.

[Thaiphoon]

6 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

The Jamie Collins comp is awful. First off Collins is a tired old vet, Collins didn’t play lazy like a vet who looks done when he was a young player for NE.

Yes. He has. Watch the games again on All-22. He takes quite a bit of plays off. Which is what I was saying because Collins does the same thing. They both only play when they want to.

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Secondly, I don’t know what play you’re talking about but him just standing there watching sounds like an extreme exaggeration just like those who called Chase Young & the rest of the DL lazy on ESPN and NFLN by pointing to one or two plays in a game.

Again. Watch each play. Not just the one highlight play he comes up with every other game.

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Come on man, you’re better than that.

I know. I'm also right.

[Thaiphoon]

13 minutes ago, ACO said:

Yeah am just not seeing what you are seeing but we shall see. I mean who thought we would have this thread last year about Chase...

Sure. But Chase had a great rookie season where he took over some games on his resume. Right now, Micah has only 4 games on his and they aren't great outside of about 2-3 plays.

[Thaiphoon]

Either way, we can discuss this in the This Ain't Washington Talk since this thread is about Chase. Please move it there.

[ACO]

1 minute ago, Thaiphoon said:

Sure. But Chase had a great rookie season where he took over some games on his resume. Right now, Micah has only 4 games on his and they aren't great outside of about 2-3 plays.

It has been 4 weeks and Micah has clearly had a lot if impact. Lets talk at the end of the season about what Micah has done for this team. It just feels at the moment you hoping that he is bad. It is odd. For a rookie who didn't play for a year and is now playing out of position with everyone hyping him up... I think he is doing beyond solid. 

 

[Thaiphoon]

8 minutes ago, ACO said:

It has been 4 weeks and Micah has clearly had a lot if impact. Lets talk at the end of the season about what Micah has done for this team. It just feels at the moment you hoping that he is bad. It is odd. For a rookie who didn't play for a year and is now playing out of position with everyone hyping him up... I think he is doing beyond solid. 

 

Not hoping. He just isn't that good right now. Some things can be attributed to playing out of position. But not everything (i.e. - use of hands, jogging on plays, going half-speed, quitting on plays, getting pushed out of the way repeatedly by WRs and TEs, etc... are not attributable to being out of position). Watch the Darnold runs again. He quit on both plays when he should've been there. Watch when he was in at ILB in short yardage. Just stood there and acted like a fan in the stands.

In fact, I think it's the hype train about his natural athletic talent (and the one or two flash plays he has) that is what is the "hope" here. But to each their own. Like I said, I know what I see and I see a talented, but lazy underachiever. And with his knuckleheadedness, if he doesn't fix that laziness he's not going to be long for this league as a starter. He's gonna be another Jamie Collins.

And like you said, we can wait until the end of the season to judge his rookie campaign and he has plenty of time to prove me wrong. I just don't see the play matching the hype right now.

[e16bball]

2 hours ago, RSkinGM said:

He's a great athlete for sure .

If we’re being honest, this is actually my biggest fear with Chase. He’s a really good athlete — I’m not 100% sure he’s a great athlete.

You watch someone like Myles Garrett, he’s so sudden and so explosive, he has so much ability to bend and press the edge. Watching him close on a QB is like watching a shark close on its prey. He plays low, and he can explode to finish the sack from pretty much any angle and any position. 

As much as I like Chase, I think he’s clearly a level below Garrett as an athlete. He plays much higher, and you just don’t see that “big cat” type explosive quickness to finish.  He’ll continue to develop his techniques, and please God let this man learn how to adjust mid-rush if the first plan doesn’t work, but I have a fear that there’s a ceiling on how much of a sack artist he can be because he doesn’t possess those truly superhuman twitch/explosion traits like the Garretts and Von Millers and Danielle Hunters of the world. Or even Odafe Oweh, for that matter, who is really just scratching the surface of what he can be one day.

I think he can (and likely will) be a more complete player than a lot of those guys. But if we’re talking about a “don’t single block him or you’re dead” terror of a pass-rusher, I have my concerns after 20 games. 

[offbyone]

Who cares about Parsons?  He was off the board when we drafted.  And if we wanted to trade up for a player, we shouldn't be talking about him, we should be talking about Fields.  If we want to complain about missing on a line backer it is JOK who we had the opportunity to get and passed on.

This makes no difference in the Chase Young situation.  Even if Young had 4 sacks, he hasn't been a game changer.  

[Thaiphoon]

Just now, e16bball said:

If we’re being honest, this is actually my biggest fear with Chase. He’s a really good athlete — I’m not 100% sure he’s a great athlete.

You watch someone like Myles Garrett, he’s so sudden and so explosive, he has so much ability to bend and press the edge. Watching him close on a QB is like watching a shark close on its prey. He plays low, and he can explode to finish the sack from pretty much any angle and any position. 

As much as I like Chase, I think he’s clearly a level below Garrett as an athlete. He plays much higher, and you just don’t see that “big cat” type explosive quickness to finish.  He’ll continue to develop his techniques, and please God let this man learn how to adjust mid-rush if the first plan doesn’t work, but I have a fear that there’s a ceiling on how much of a sack artist he can be because he doesn’t possess those truly superhuman twitch/explosion traits like the Garretts and Von Millers and Danielle Hunters of the world. Or even Odafe Oweh, for that matter, who is really just scratching the surface of what he can be one day.

I think he can (and likely will) be a more complete player than a lot of those guys. But if we’re talking about a “don’t single block him or you’re dead” terror of a pass-rusher, I have my concerns after 20 games. 

This is what I was alluding to when I said that it isn't the DCs fault here in what "Scheme" we're running. Guys like Garrett or Aaron Donald don't need DCs to scheme the into sacks. They just beat their man and are technicians who play within the system. There were at least 3 or 4 times Chase could've gotten to Allen in the Buffalo game but he just let the OT ride him right on by the QB and out of the play. That;s a perfect time for a spin move or a shove with the right hand and crashing back into the pocket. Instead he gets pushed to behind Allen on those plays. That ain't gonna cut it Chase.