HerbertGOAT Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Herbert has a ways to go. Joe Lombardi's garbage offense isn't helping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) On 10/31/2021 at 4:07 PM, The BILLievers said: Bump. It’s not close imo Bump. Yeah it is 2 games doesn't change anything. If it does then when Josh has a little bad stretch maybe ill bump and say it isnt close. Weekly outcome is merely performance not skill or ability. Edited November 2, 2021 by Bearerofnews 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/1/2021 at 12:30 AM, HerbertGOAT said: Herbert has a ways to go. Joe Lombardi's garbage offense isn't helping. Part of the blame is also on Herbert. He’s still not there mentally and experience wise yet. Even Staley mentioned this in his presser. It happens. The kid will get better as he gets his lumps. Rivers also had a skid his second year starting in 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BILLievers Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 14 hours ago, Bearerofnews said: Bump. Yeah it is 2 games doesn't change anything. If it does then when Josh has a little bad stretch maybe ill bump and say it isnt close. Weekly outcome is merely performance not skill or ability. My bad, I didn't mean as an overall player/QB, but more of this 2021 season and where the MVP race could fall as the weeks keeping adding up. imo i think people were anointing Herbert > Allen prematurely and there's going to be growing pains for Herbert as he grows in the league. Allen had a better 2020 season and is currently having a better 2021 season but Herberts year 1/2 >>> Allens year 1/2. I just feel like Allen gets shafted by the media more than any other QB; especially when they have a bad game. I mean Vegas has him as a +300 MVP odds (favorite) and he's on pace for : 4,500 passing yards, 40 passing TDs - 7 INTs, 7 rushing TDs, 650 rushing yards but the talking heads at any podcast/station are saying Arod, Dak, Brady w/o saying Allen since he had a bad week 1 and 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 hour ago, The BILLievers said: but the talking heads at any podcast/station are saying Arod, Dak, Brady w/o saying Allen since he had a bad week 1 and 2. eh - You don't need the approval of the talking heads. Allen is fantastic - and he's your QB going forward. Enjoy every minute of it. Sitting here today, I don't think there's going to be a lot of separation between Allen and Herbert - both are going to be Top Tier QBs Here are a couple of snippets from the pay article at The Athletic- which polls NFL coaches and personnel guys for these 4 Tier QB rankings from August '21 TIER 2 A Tier 2 quarterback can carry his team sometimes but not as consistently. He can handle pure passing situations in doses and/or possesses other dimensions that are special enough to elevate him above Tier 3. He has a hole or two in his game. 6. Josh Allen Tier 1 votes: 20 | Tier 2 votes: 30 | 2020 Tier: 3 The 20 first-tier votes Allen received are five more than the combined total for all the quarterbacks ranked below him. The gap between Allen and Watson above him is much smaller than the gap between Allen and Lamar Jackson below him. Allen is one more excellent season from joining the top tier. “He is huge, he sees the field, and his mobility and pure power are really rare for the position,” a defensive coach said. “He’s got rare arm talent to access any part of the field. He showed that outside the pocket, he’s got real deep accuracy. He improved dramatically when the pocket is tight. This guy became one of the elite players in the league, regardless of position. He has affected the belief of that team in a big way. They have taken on his personality, his energy, his toughness.” The 30 voters placing Allen in the second tier generally agreed. They wanted to see him prove it with another strong season before anointing him. “Josh was one of those guys that clearly ascended to that level last year, and they were winning because of him,” an exec said. “Buffalo has a good, solid defense you can win with, but it’s not a dominating, shut-down defense. Everything fits together and it’s a very well-coached team, but I thought Allen, not just in his play, but the way his teammates responded to him and the team believed in him, played at that level last year. And it was clearly a different playoff performance than against Houston the prior year.” Skeptical takes on Allen note that he still makes mistakes unbecoming of top-tier quarterbacks, including an 18-yard sack/fumble with the game on the line at Indianapolis in the wild-card round. The Bills barely won that game, scored 10 points on offense against Baltimore the next week and then lost by two touchdowns at Kansas City. “He still has to keep getting better, and I think he will, as a passer in the tight situations,” a former head coach said. “The gotta-have-it type plays. You gotta drop back, sit in the pocket and make throws. He reverted back in the playoff game, took a 30-yard sack (18 yards) spinning around with the ball and doing ****. That is what happens. Now, he needs to take the next step.” A defensive coordinator who placed Brady and Wilson in Tier 2 said Allen isn’t nearly advanced enough as a pure pocket passer or reader of defenses to belong in Tier 1. “He perplexes me because in my career I have not seen someone go from as inaccurate as he was in college to making this kind of transition,” a personnel director said. “I need to see some sustainability before placing him in the top tier.” 10. Justin Herbert Tier 1 votes: 4 | Tier 2 votes: 37 | Tier 3 votes: 7 | Tier 4 votes: 2 | 2020 Tier: NA No quarterback has debuted higher than Herbert since the second year of Quarterback Tiers (the entire league debuted in 2014, the first year of the survey). The 2.14 average vote for Herbert beats the 2.52 debut for Prescott in 2017 and the 2.53 debut for Baker Mayfield in 2019. Those other players got zero top-tier votes in their debuts. Herbert got four. Too soon? “What did our illustrious former Stanford, Arizona and Minnesota head coach say, something about crowning their *****?” an offensive coach said, referring to the late Dennis Green. “Yes, go ahead and crown his ***. I think he’s going to do it again. He’s got juice, he’s got attitude, and the right attitude. Now, he hasn’t hit any adversity, and expectations were so low last year. Now what?” There are some uncertainties. New offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi brings extensive experience under Sean Payton in New Orleans, but he doesn’t bring Payton. The Lions ranked 18th in offensive EPA and 24th in offensive points per game (18.6) during Lombardi’s 23-game run as coordinator in Detroit over the 2014 and 2015 seasons. Stafford ranked 17th in EPA per attempt and 24th in yards per attempt over that span. “I gave Herbert a 1,” an evaluator said. “We played him last year, and the guy had it all: athletic, arm strength, timing, anticipation. I give him more credit because he did it his rookie year, he maintained it through the season. Unfortunately, he’s another guy who has a new staff, no continuity.” The few voters placing Herbert below the second tier wanted to see how staff changes and expectations altered the dynamic, especially now that opponents have studied him. There could be statistical regression for Herbert and quarterbacks overall as fans are allowed back into stadiums that were so quiet last season; empty stadiums could partly explain why third-and-long production spiked away from home in 2020. These are not major concerns. An exec pointed to Herbert’s poise as his greatest intangible trait. An offensive coordinator called Herbert “an unbelievably accurate down-the-field thrower” who handles pressure well. “He’s smart and he just kind of gets it,” a head coach said. “If you get someone who can see and anticipate and is smart, and has the athletic ability and size, you’ve got something. The sky is the limit for the kid. The players love him there. I have him as a low 1 because you’ve gotta see it. Is it a Carson Wentz (in 2017) thing or is it real? I know that when we played him, he felt like a Tier 1. The ball went where it should go.” 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 5 hours ago, Xenos said: Part of the blame is also on Herbert. He’s still not there mentally and experience wise yet. Even Staley mentioned this in his presser. It happens. The kid will get better as he gets his lumps. Rivers also had a skid his second year starting in 2007. The Baltimore game was bad. A 2nd watching of the NE game wasnt as bad as I thought watching live. In fact i put more blame on his supporting cast. They need to stop dropping passes. Only Darnold has more drops from his cast than Herbert. Idk wtf is wrong with Keenan, too many key drops and big 3rd down ones. If his WRs didn't have the drops this year and these presnap penalties. He would have 22 tds and 4 ints and around 69% comp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Bearerofnews said: The Baltimore game was bad. A 2nd watching of the NE game wasnt as bad as I thought watching live. In fact i put more blame on his supporting cast. They need to stop dropping passes. Only Darnold has more drops from his cast than Herbert. Idk wtf is wrong with Keenan, too many key drops and big 3rd down ones. If his WRs didn't have the drops this year and these presnap penalties. He would have 22 tds and 4 ints and around 69% comp. Here’s a good breakdown from Daniel Popper. https://www.thepowderblues.com/forum/forum/los-angeles-chargers-forum-nfl-forum-padres-forum/the-los-angeles-chargers-forum/1267390-patriots-chargers-game-day-thread-post-game-discussion-wk-8?p=1269319#post1269319 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Xenos said: Here’s a good breakdown from Daniel Popper. https://www.thepowderblues.com/forum/forum/los-angeles-chargers-forum-nfl-forum-padres-forum/the-los-angeles-chargers-forum/1267390-patriots-chargers-game-day-thread-post-game-discussion-wk-8?p=1269319#post1269319 Solid break down. End of the day, his guys need to catch the ball. 17 drops in 7 games. Only Jones and Darnold with 18 in 8 games have more. The fact Herbert still has efficient numbers with that many drops says alot about how truly good he is. They need to take out Storm. Of the 86.1% oline pressure allowed he has accounted for 45.8% highest allowed for any qb by the RT that has started more than 1 game. 2nd highest for the Chargers is LT and LG at 16.7%. If Offense struggles vs the Eagles, it's time to be concerned. Edited November 3, 2021 by Bearerofnews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 6 hours ago, Bearerofnews said: Solid break down. End of the day, his guys need to catch the ball. 17 drops in 7 games. Only Jones and Darnold with 18 in 8 games have more. The fact Herbert still has efficient numbers with that many drops says alot about how truly good he is. They need to take out Storm. Of the 86.1% oline pressure allowed he has accounted for 45.8% highest allowed for any qb by the RT that has started more than 1 game. 2nd highest for the Chargers is LT and LG at 16.7%. If Offense struggles vs the Eagles, it's time to be concerned. And Herbert himself needs to continue to learn from his mistakes and be better. He’ll get there. I think his early success made us think he had arrived when he still needed polishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 On 10/31/2021 at 4:07 PM, The BILLievers said: Bump. It’s not close imo Bump it isn't close. Herbert is better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BILLievers Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) On 11/7/2021 at 6:00 PM, Bearerofnews said: Bump it isn't close. Herbert is better. Bump, right back at ya. Edited November 15, 2021 by The BILLievers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 4 hours ago, The BILLievers said: Bump, right back at ya. 🤣 ill get ya back soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BILLievers Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said: 🤣 ill get ya back soon. Good ole fashion bump off 😆 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 On 11/15/2021 at 1:16 PM, Bearerofnews said: 🤣 ill get ya back soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 1 hour ago, ET80 said: This was a rough week for Bills fans. I showed some restraint, empathy and compassion as a fan who has dealt with too many of those types of weeks. 😬 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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