amac Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, catcheryea said: exactly i've been saying this all year. so many guys are able to come in and average 17 and 5 while running the least talented offense in the league and getting defended like this Just looking at our recent history alone, Greivis Vasquez, Jarret Jack. Mediocre players will find a way to get volume numbers on terrible teams if you give them free rein. It’s not that impressive Edited April 18, 2022 by amac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, amac said: Still not there yet buddy, keep trying. No one is talking about Desmond Bane but you, nor do I care I'm giving you another example of an older rookie playing meaningful minutes for a better team and asking if you think he should have been in the ROY discussion last season. It's a relevant comparison and you're ignoring it for no good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amac Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: I'm giving you another example of an older rookie playing meaningful minutes for a better team and asking if you think he should have been in the ROY discussion last season. It's a relevant comparison and you're ignoring it for no good reason. If you’re not gonna make a case for Cade other than volume numbers than I see no reason to diverge into a whole different discussion. I have better things to do and go back and revisit last years ROY race Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, amac said: Just looking at our recent history alone, Greivis Vasquez, Jarret Jack. Mediocre players will find a way to get volume numbers on terrible teams if you give them free reign. It’s not that impressive neither of those guys averaged 17 as rookies or 17 any other year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, amac said: If you’re not gonna make a case for Cade other than volume numbers than I see no reason to diverge into a whole different discussion. I have better things to do and go back and revisit last years ROY race Translation: I don't want to admit I had no idea Bane was decent for a good team last season and that Herb Jones isn't one of a kind. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amac Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 15 minutes ago, catcheryea said: neither of those guys averaged 17 as rookies or 17 any other year I would take 14 and 9 and slightly less crappy percentages and turnovers over Cades season. He showed improvement, he’s going to be great. But if we’re just talking about this season as an individual player I have no problem making a case for Herb over him. It is amusing watching people get so salty over a mild defense of Herb getting credit for being one of the leagues best defenders though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amac Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 Michael Carter Williams must be a damn legend by now considering what he did with 19 win team. wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, amac said: I would take 14 and 9 and slightly less crappy percentages and turnovers over Cades season. He showed improvement, he’s going to be great. But if we’re just talking about this season as an individual player I have no problem making a case for Herb over him. It is amusing watching people get so salty over a mild defense of Herb getting credit for being one of the leagues best defenders though. vasquez averaged that in his third season. cade is like the 10th rookie ever to average 17/5/5. nobody's salty but it is wild we’re comparing a role player who excelled in his role to a guy was asked to be his team’s best player 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 Has anyone seen H John Benjamin and Coach Bud in the same room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMG5 Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 10 minutes ago, amac said: I would take 14 and 9 and slightly less crappy percentages and turnovers over Cades season. He showed improvement, he’s going to be great. But if we’re just talking about this season as an individual player I have no problem making a case for Herb over him. It is amusing watching people get so salty over a mild defense of Herb getting credit for being one of the leagues best defenders though. I like Herb a lot and his impact for us has been massive, but he doesn't have anywhere near the same offensive responsiblity as a guy like Cunningham. Herb isn't depended on for offensive production or facilitating on a nightly basis. He benefits greatly on offense by having a guy like BI (and now CJ) on the floor alongside him. Does Herb deserve praise for what he's been able to do this season? Absolutely. Herb has been tasked with guarding the opposing teams best player all season and has done a fantastic job. I think he should be on All-Defense 2nd team and All-Rookie 1st team, but he isn't the ROTY over Cade, Barnes or Mobley. As for anyone attempting to discredit Herb's defensive impact, you haven't watched the man enough. He is spectacular. His length, athleticism and BBIQ are off the charts. Dude is the truth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMG5 Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 Y'all do know it's possible to praise a player for having a great season without discrediting the play of another player, right? This rookie class has out performed every expectation. The league is in great hands. Be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amac Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 14 minutes ago, catcheryea said: vasquez averaged that in his third season. cade is like the 10th rookie ever to average 17/5/5. It’s kind of beside the point if we’re just comparing their value as players this season in a vacuum. what Cade did as a player in general isn’t that remarkable, as a rookie sure it’s nice. Herb is already one of the best defenders in the league. Cade doesn’t have a skill on that level yet. If you want to make a case for Cade I have no problem with that but I dont think it’s crazy for Pelton or anyone else to pick Herb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 19 minutes ago, amac said: It’s kind of beside the point if we’re just comparing their value as players this season in a vacuum. what Cade did as a player in general isn’t that remarkable, as a rookie sure it’s nice. Herb is already one of the best defenders in the league. Cade doesn’t have a skill on that level yet. If you want to make a case for Cade I have no problem with that but I dont think it’s crazy for Pelton or anyone else to pick Herb we’re not comparing them in a vacuum. herb was asked to fill a role and he was very good at it. he was probably not asked to step far beyond that role very often because they had other guys to do those other things. cade was asked to be his team’s primary scorer and primary playmaker and pretty often asked to defend the other team’s best guard. cade also had significantly less talent around him while doing it therefore drawing even more attention 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amac Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, catcheryea said: we’re not comparing them in a vacuum. herb was asked to fill a role and he was very good at it. he was probably not asked to step far beyond that role very often because they had other guys to do those other things. cade was asked to be his team’s primary scorer and primary playmaker. cade also had significantly less talent around him while doing it therefore drawing even more attention So was Greivis Vasquez. It doesn’t elevate him to some new level if he isn’t that good at it. But yeah, it’s comparing apples to oranges in a sense Edited April 18, 2022 by amac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amac Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 1 hour ago, seminoles1 said: Translation: I don't want to admit I had no idea Bane was decent for a good team last season and that Herb Jones isn't one of a kind. Translation: I got called out for strawmanning so I’m going to try to act smug. Not worth the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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