Dcash4 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 59 minutes ago, warfelg said: Can I give you the great “what if”? Feilers contract was a cap hit of $5mil. What if we had him starting at RT, and Chucks as the swing tackle or LT. Moore learning. Banner at swing. That’s much better than Haeg and Finney especially with Feilers positional flexibility. Go back in my off-season roster build where I had Feiler as a resign. I wanted him back at RT for stability and Chuks/Banner to battle for LT with a potential draft pick too. But still -- That's signing a starter. Haeg and Finney were clearly depth signings. Those are not the same. Those two combine for a $2.35 cap hit on 1 year deals. You still need those types of guys on the roster regardless of Feiler or whoever your starter is. Even if you signed 2 vet minimum Finneys instead of Haeg, you net a savings of $650,000 -- that's not the difference between signing Feiler or not. Whether or not you choose to re-sign Feiler doesn't mean you don't need depth signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 30 minutes ago, jebrick said: Just hire Doug Marrone from Bama. Absolutely. Mentioned him earlier as it being a mistake they didn't get him last off-season. Maybe he just loves being a Bama? But usually NFL guys like to come back to the NFL because screw that recruiting nonsense (although, does Bama even need to recruit?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted December 23, 2021 Author Share Posted December 23, 2021 1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said: Maybe Feiler didn’t want to come back? And a fair enough retort. There’s just too much setting on the coaching being the problem and not talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 50 minutes ago, warfelg said: And a fair enough retort. There’s just too much setting on the coaching being the problem and not talent. I have no problem saying the talent is an issue. Choosing Haeg, Finney, and Banner as the guys to mark for that that isn’t right. The offensive line was meant to be Chuks - Dotson - Green - Decastro - Banner . They learned about Banner and Decastos lack of availability way too late to do much about it. Even Dotson’s availability has been an issue, which compounds things. The lack of talent comes from plans being destroyed in the summer rather than the spring. To use the Feiler hypothetical: if Decastro decides to essentially retire himself in the Spring rather than mid-summer…there’s a good chance Feiler is still here thanks to Decastros savings and the roster hole. If they knew Banner wouldn’t be available or would have set backs even mid summer…we could have signed a Moses or a Leno who came available late. l and we wouldn’t be shuffling Chuks back to RT and starting a no where near ready rookie at LT. The front office set up the dominos for the offensive line this year and they didn’t even get a chance to see how the fell..because in the summer their little brother came and kicked them all over the room. We can talk about the talent of a Chuks or the drafting of Green…but you chose the wrong guys to make a point on talent acquisition - for various reasons. My point in coaching is that they continually choose to play these guys and I’m not sure I have actually seen any improvement. War, you are (or were) a high school coach. Even the kids who are terrible but just wanna be with their friends get better from day 1 to day 50 - no matter how small the improvement. If anything, we have taken steps backwards. That’s coaching, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted December 23, 2021 Author Share Posted December 23, 2021 You’re kinda missing my point @Dcash4and continually have when it comes to talking about depth. It has nothing to do with who they picked or what they anticipated to play. It has to do with the fact that there’s an inability to identify the talent they can get for that amount. They did a poor job with that. Haeg and Finney just aren’t talented to begin with. So to expect coaching to make them better strikes me as placing the blame in the wrong place over admitting they just…aren’t good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 20 minutes ago, warfelg said: identify the talent they can get for that amount. Create me the list, man. Create me the list of the guys who willing signed to fill the 7, 8, or 9 role of the offensive line on rosters that are objectively better than Haeg and Finney costing $2.35 in cap space combined. This is the part of the talent conversation that I just flat don’t understand where you guys come from or what your expectations are…because they are not realistic to what’s going on in the collective NFL. Talented depth isn’t bought in the NFL, it’s drafted. We we’re not signing staters…we were signing backups. Experience, cost, willingness, and being below average to average at multiple positions are sometimes better than a guy singularly above average at one position when it comes to a 46 man gameday roster. How you construct a 46 man game day roster matters. Zach Banner may very well be the best RT we have on this roster, but as soon as Haeg is back he might lose the hat to Joe on Sundays because he can only play 1 position Vs 4. That stuff matters in signings. So again I challenge you, find the the guys objectively better that play multiple positions and signed for vet minimum. It’s going to be a very small list, if there’s one at all. The funny part is that Haeg actually didn’t play bad when he was forced into action, but he hasn’t been available due to injury. He played exactly like how I anticipate….a backup….to play. 27 minutes ago, warfelg said: Haeg and Finney just aren’t talented to begin with Welcome to NFL vet depth acquisition. The total collection of NFL players is far closer to below average to average than it is above average. 28 minutes ago, warfelg said: So to expect coaching to make them better strikes me as placing the blame in the wrong place over admitting they just…aren’t good Never said i have an expectation of guys close to or over 30 growing their talents. But I do expect 22, 23, and 24 year olds to start to show growth. I expect guys playing together for 10+ games to handle simple A gap pressures they teach in high school. Those are the areas I challenge coaching — molding clay that hasn’t come close to drying. Moore, Green, Dotson, and even 24 year old Chuks are where I expect to see SOME growth. I don’t see any. It can absolutely be that they are not good players, but as I said before…even bad players can improve in ways. We are taking steps backwards from day 1. We skipped OL as a draft priority because we had vet guys like Villy, Decastro, Pouncey, and Foster filling the the starting roles so we rolled the dice on UDFA guys and did get hits — Feiler being one. But when you lose 3 of those guys in one off-season almost unexpectedly….it becomes an issue. We drafted 7 OL since 2013…two of which came this year. The earliest drafted are two thirds. We are paying for that now with the sudden turnover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted December 23, 2021 Author Share Posted December 23, 2021 I’m just so tapped out of this conversation anymore. It’s excuses after excuses for this front office. Yes the coaching has problems but this is not a talented team. And all the exacerbates the problem is every other time cap is talked about you bring up you can do whatever, but with backups the money is the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted December 23, 2021 Author Share Posted December 23, 2021 Like, I’ll ask this: Joe Haeg played in Indy, who has a good OL and a good OL coach. He played in Tampa who has developed a bunch of OL players. He never got better. So what’s more likely? He’s not good or all that coaching along with ours is bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 22 minutes ago, warfelg said: It’s excuses after excuses for this front office. It's not excuses...its freaking reality. This isn't madden man, and the thing that angers me about this is that you of all people KNOW THAT. 24 minutes ago, warfelg said: And all the exacerbates the problem is every other time cap is talked about you bring up you can do whatever, but with backups the money is the money. Ya know, I had a longer response written out for that that I felt came up a little rude and I didn't want that. So just say....think this one through a little more... 18 minutes ago, warfelg said: So what’s more likely? He’s not good or all that coaching along with ours is bad? You are just blatantly ignoring everything I said. I've never stated he was, is, or will be good....but you apparently have this thought that we are missing out on tremendous, pro bowl caliber, vet minimum signed talent for depth --- and, in the real world, that doesn't exist. Vet signed players who come over at the minimum for depth ARE . NOT . GOOD . PLAYERS. This is universal to the NFL....not specific to the Steelers only so you can cram your "Kevin Colbert actually sucks" agenda. So I'll just sit here waiting on your list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbrunn Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 (edited) I love najee and Pat and both are/will be great players But Cosmi in the 1st and Creed in the 2nd would of probably been the better draft for this team... Knowing what we know now Edited December 23, 2021 by Cbrunn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted December 23, 2021 Author Share Posted December 23, 2021 31 minutes ago, Cbrunn said: I love najee and Pat and both are/will be great players But Cosmi in the 1st and Creed in the 2nd would of probably been the better draft for this team... Knowing what we know now And this type of stuff is what frustrates me personally. Like those guys are better as rookies but it alters everything else. Like I’ll vent on my Banner thing right now. He’s a great guy. But his extension made no sense. He played 2 quarters of ok football at RT and you move to extend him before FA?!? Like the number of starting OL players not coming off injuries that have the same year one cap hit makes that look bad. Then add in that he couldn’t get off IR then can barely see the field is highly problematic. So it puts you into signing a guy as a swing tackle who worst case will be battling a guy coming off an ACL injury and best case is a short term starter. Especially when you are letting your LT walk and you are penciling in last years RT to that spot. It’s all a domino game and that’s my point with the whole depth being an issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 1 hour ago, warfelg said: And this type of stuff is what frustrates me personally. Like those guys are better as rookies but it alters everything else. Like I’ll vent on my Banner thing right now. He’s a great guy. But his extension made no sense. He played 2 quarters of ok football at RT and you move to extend him before FA?!? Like the number of starting OL players not coming off injuries that have the same year one cap hit makes that look bad. Then add in that he couldn’t get off IR then can barely see the field is highly problematic. So it puts you into signing a guy as a swing tackle who worst case will be battling a guy coming off an ACL injury and best case is a short term starter. Especially when you are letting your LT walk and you are penciling in last years RT to that spot. It’s all a domino game and that’s my point with the whole depth being an issue. I never got the love for Banner. Felt like another BJ Finney and Doug Legursky situation where he showed some flashes, but never really showed enough. But at least Finney and Legursky didnt get totally undeserved contracts. Banner got like $7m for half a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 I don’t blame them for the contract they gave Banner...it is(was) basically a 1 year deal with an easy to get out of backloaded 2nd year...it just hasn’t worked out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted December 24, 2021 Author Share Posted December 24, 2021 1 hour ago, AFF said: I don’t blame them for the contract they gave Banner...it is(was) basically a 1 year deal with an easy to get out of backloaded 2nd year...it just hasn’t worked out. How many teams are giving a guy a contract while injured after 2Q of play who has been known to battle being overweight? The risk far outweighed the reward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, warfelg said: How many teams are giving a guy a contract while injured after 2Q of play who has been known to battle being overweight? The risk far outweighed the reward. The risk was $3.25 million(over 2 years)...the upside was a good run blocking starting RT on the cheap compared to the rest of the NFL. Totally disagree with the risk that his 1.5% of the teams total cap hit outweighed getting a potential starting RT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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