2022 Free agency thread

[WindyCity]

Quinn's value has never been higher and he is a volatile player. Who knows if we get 18 sack Robert Quinn this season or 2 sack Robert Quinn. His entire career has been a roller coaster.

If you can sell a depreciating asset at its highest point, I think you do that.

You could pivot that pick and cap space into players that help the defense and have a long term future with the team. What if they can flip Quinn for a 3rd and they draft a CB and sign Larry O back at a reduced rate with the 5 million in cap savings?

Trading Quinn does not mean the defense gets ignored, it can be more about redistributing resources while getting younger.

[StLunatic88]

2 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

This is where the thinking has to change...you can't just think of the future...

The future is all that matters right now. I don’t care if we win 2 games next year, in fact I’d welcome it because that guarantees elite players in the draft next year.

Because you can do that and still see real improvement in your roster at the same time. And you can build a lot of character while you do it also, see if you have a true leaders in Fields and Smith.

Id rather be losing 35-24 every week, knowing that we blew up the defense and are just trying to work out who will be part of the future, than look like we have a better than average defense but then have to just cut Quinn with no return on him, because he regresses to like a 7ish sack guy, who no one is going to pay $14m plus draft picks for. Because like it or not, that’s who Quinn has been for the majority of his career, and while “some guys” have done well into their 30s, it’s not the norm, and teams know that

And I’ll say it again, if moving Robert Quinn for a draft pick (a Top 100 one, who should be a contributor right away and expected to be atleast a fringe starter in ‘23) torpedoes this entire defense, much less the entire team as some of you are acting like, then we have much bigger problems, and maybe that’s really what you are scared of

[Madmike90]

9 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

The future is all that matters right now. I don’t care if we win 2 games next year, in fact I’d welcome it because that guarantees elite players in the draft next year.

Because you can do that and still see real improvement in your roster at the same time. And you can build a lot of character while you do it also, see if you have a true leaders in Fields and Smith.

Id rather be losing 35-24 every week, knowing that we blew up the defense and are just trying to work out who will be part of the future, than look like we have a better than average defense but then have to just cut Quinn with no return on him, because he regresses to like a 7ish sack guy, who no one is going to pay $14m plus draft picks for. Because like it or not, that’s who Quinn has been for the majority of his career, and while “some guys” have done well into their 30s, it’s not the norm, and teams know that

And I’ll say it again, if moving Robert Quinn for a draft pick (a Top 100 one, who should be a contributor right away and expected to be atleast a fringe starter in ‘23) torpedoes this entire defense, much less the entire team as some of you are acting like, then we have much bigger problems, and maybe that’s really what you are scared of

Please name one example where this has worked?

[StLunatic88]

9 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Please name one example where this has worked?

Name one example of wallowing in sub-mediocrity has worked?

Im not advocating we are in a massive tank job, that we should be doing this for the next 3 seasons, because that doesn’t work in football like it does in baseball or basketball. But if we were to bottom out this year as far as wins go, it wouldn’t be the worst thing. 

I don’t think that we will, but these next 18 months are all about accruing as much talent as we can, it’s weird to see you straddle the fence here 

[Madmike90]

1 minute ago, StLunatic88 said:

Name one example of wallowing in sub-mediocrity has worked?

Im not advocating we are in a massive tank job, that we should be doing this for the next 3 seasons, because that doesn’t work in football like it does in baseball or basketball. But if we were to bottom out this year as far as wins go, it wouldn’t be the worst thing. 

I don’t think that we will, but these next 18 months are all about accruing as much talent as we can, it’s weird to see you straddle the fence here 

Tons of teams have went from middle of the road teams to being top teams...Buffalo spring to mind as a recent example...

2014: 9-7

2015: 8-8

2016: 7-9

2017: 9-7

2018: 6-10

2019: 10-6

2020: 13-3

2021: 11-6

It's easier said than done to suck for one season then bounce back...just ask Jacksonville, Houston, Detroit or Cleveland fans...

Tough to develop any young QB when the rest of the team around him sucks...we do not want to put Fields in that position and we must stay competitive to avoid that.

[StLunatic88]

4 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Tons of teams have went from middle of the road teams to being top teams...Buffalo spring to mind as a recent example...

The Bills!!?? The team that was stuck between 5 and 9 wins for almost two straight decades? Who needed what might be a Generational talent at QB to take them over the hump? Sure great example, exactly what we are looking to be. 

6 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Tough to develop any young QB when the rest of the team around him sucks...we do not want to put Fields in that position and we must stay competitive to avoid that.

Haha what!? Where was this energy when we’ve been talking about the offensive side of the ball for the past 2 months? How can you be ok with stopping down the offense, taking the time to find the right fits but how dare they do the same thing on the defensive side? Honestly this is pretty rich.

I trust we have the right coach to make this rebuild on the fly, and he has shown that he doesn’t need the flashy guys on the defensive side to build a very good defense, so why are we hanging onto one who’s value hasn’t been higher since he was on his rookie deal, and is more likely to come back to earth than lead the leagues in sacks on a defense lacking in overall talent and changing schemes to one that doesn’t focus on getting him sacks?

[Madmike90]

3 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

The Bills!!?? The team that was stuck between 5 and 9 wins for almost two straight decades? Who needed what might be a Generational talent at QB to take them over the hump? Sure great example, exactly what we are looking to be. 

Haha what!? Where was this energy when we’ve been talking about the offensive side of the ball for the past 2 months? How can you be ok with stopping down the offense, taking the time to find the right fits but how dare they do the same thing on the defensive side? Honestly this is pretty rich.

I trust we have the right coach to make this rebuild on the fly, and he has shown that he doesn’t need the flashy guys on the defensive side to build a very good defense, so why are we hanging onto one who’s value hasn’t been higher since he was on his rookie deal, and is more likely to come back to earth than lead the leagues in sacks on a defense lacking in overall talent and changing schemes to one that doesn’t focus on getting him sacks?

So basically the same situation as we find ourselves in then?...think it through...

And I have always been consistent in my through process...tanking leads to multiple losing seasons...it's a fact...you don't just suck for a year then become good...you also don't win by destroying one side of the ball to fix the other...this is going to require some patience...we aren't going to go crazy in the draft...we are going to build through the draft and there is clearly no appetite in that building to tank and rightfully so.

[StLunatic88]

30 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Please name one example where this has worked?

But since you wanted to try to pass the Bills off as this, here are some teams who have recently picked at the Top of the draft and have turned it around relatively quickly;

We can just start with your Super Bowl representative from the AFC Cincinnati Bengals, literally couldn’t have been any lower than the #1 pick 2 years prior.

How about that same draft? The sleeper darling of the league, The LA Chargers? And to a lesser extent the Dolphins are on that same track. 

Not good enough? How about the 4 of the Top 5 picks of the draft previous? Arizona Cardinals, San Francisco 49ers, Oakland (Vegas) Raiders and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers… all in play off contention 2 years and again 3 years after having Top 5 picks. 

And just for good measure, the year before that, the Browns we’re picking number one, and some would suggest inspite of that pick, they Have grown into what is expected to be a perennial playoff team when healthy, and have now jumped even beyond that. Let’s not forget the Broncos where up there as well, and even the Colts, who we have been modeling a lot of these conversations after, we’re actually the #2 pick that season. So yes, plenty of teams do turn it around, and quite quickly when you build it the correct way. 

[RTD]

On 4/9/2022 at 10:10 AM, dll2000 said:

He was certainly more coachable.  Ditka wished every day Tom could play well enough to dump McMahon.  

Talent wise they weren’t even close.  McMahon might have been a hall of fame QB if he wasn’t a crazy person.  

McMahon never saw a bottle he did like to drink from. Dan Hampton said it best . We had a QB that would rather party everyday than win championships. Mac had talent and was a very good leader but his heart wasn't in football. It was a way to make the money for what he really wanted to do in life.

[Heinz D.]

2 hours ago, soulman said:

Poles should tell anyone whose interested to put a 2nd round pick on the table and he'll talk. If it takes a little something more to balance it out offer a late round 2023 pick along with Quinn.

I've said it before, might as well say it again--if I'm Poles I'm not listening to any offers for Quinn unless it's a first rounder, or equivalent value. 

Quinn may have several good years left. Right now, the Bears don't really have a problem paying for his contract.

No reason to push sending him elsewhere...unless he wants to leave.

2 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Quinn's value has never been higher and he is a volatile player. Who knows if we get 18 sack Robert Quinn this season or 2 sack Robert Quinn. His entire career has been a roller coaster.

He had a really bad foot injury last year. He's always been more consistent as a 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB. It takes a special guy to do well at both. I'd bet both my testicles than Dent wouldn't have been a a good 3-4 DE. 

What am I getting at? Quinn isn't really a "volatile" player. He's just not a first ballot Hall of Famer, and he's better in some situations than others. There's no reason for the Bears to trade him...unless they get a lot back .

[Madmike90]

52 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

But since you wanted to try to pass the Bills off as this, here are some teams who have recently picked at the Top of the draft and have turned it around relatively quickly;

We can just start with your Super Bowl representative from the AFC Cincinnati Bengals, literally couldn’t have been any lower than the #1 pick 2 years prior.

How about that same draft? The sleeper darling of the league, The LA Chargers? And to a lesser extent the Dolphins are on that same track. 

Not good enough? How about the 4 of the Top 5 picks of the draft previous? Arizona Cardinals, San Francisco 49ers, Oakland (Vegas) Raiders and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers… all in play off contention 2 years and again 3 years after having Top 5 picks. 

And just for good measure, the year before that, the Browns we’re picking number one, and some would suggest inspite of that pick, they Have grown into what is expected to be a perennial playoff team when healthy, and have now jumped even beyond that. Let’s not forget the Broncos where up there as well, and even the Colts, who we have been modeling a lot of these conversations after, we’re actually the #2 pick that season. So yes, plenty of teams do turn it around, and quite quickly when you build it the correct way. 

So a 1 year wonder who have the Eagles wrote all over them...

The Chargers who missed the playoffs last year...the Dolphins...who missed the playoffs last year and are both now making crazy moves to try and add talent to keep up...

Cardinals who did nothing in the playoffs...9ers who are still a QB short because they clearly have very little faith in Lance...Raiders who went out in the wildcard and TB who bought themselves success with Brady and did nothing with the 1st round pick but pick Winston...

And let's look at those #1 Overall picks of the last 20 years...a grand total of 1 guy won a superbowl with the team that drafted him...that was Eric Fisher...having the top overall pick or even picking high does not guarantee success in any way shape or form...the numbers are clear on that.

[beardown3231]

2 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

Please name one example where this has worked?

You're asking for 1 example *ever* when a team went from winning 2 games thus picking high in the draft and subsequently being good the next year? It took me all of 3 seconds to think of one: the Colts when they went from winning 2 games without Luck to 11 with Luck (aka with a high draft pick).

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, Madmike90 said:

 

And let's look at those #1 Overall picks of the last 20 years...a grand total of 1 guy won a superbowl with the team that drafted him...that was Eric Fisher...having the top overall pick or even picking high does not guarantee success in any way shape or form...the numbers are clear on that.

 I mean really we have only won one playoff game in the last 15 years or so. We might find a way to make it 20 years without a playoff win let alone and actual Super Bowl win. Lol

 

 Sometimes I hate this franchise

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, Madmike90 said:

So a 1 year wonder who have the Eagles wrote all over them...

Joe Burrow is a one year wonder……

so why are we even trying with Fields then? Because as much as I like Justin, I don’t think he’s close to the QB that Joe is

[Heinz D.]

8 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Joe Burrow is a one year wonder……

so why are we even trying with Fields then? Because as much as I like Justin, I don’t think he’s close to the QB that Joe is

I'm not at all sure that he's claiming Burrow is a one-year wonder.

If he is, he's wrong. 

As far as your "don't think he's close" claim (Fields to Burrow)--I think you're wrong, there. But that's just a hunch, there's no proof to back that claim up. 

We'll all just have to wait and see how it unfolds...