jrry32 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said: None of that stopped Dak Prescott from getting the award. That doesn't answer the question of whether he SHOULD get it. None of us have any control over which player gets it. We're here to talk about what guy SHOULD get it. Those things absolutely need to be considered. Frankly, you see what Dak is doing now. It makes all the talk last year about him being in the running for MVP seem even more silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, jrry32 said: Kamara is doing great things with the touches he receives, but let's not pretend he isn't in one of the best situations in football for a guy with his talents. Can we say the same about Fournette? That's fair, but I personally don't think it's enough to close the gap between the two. Each week the sample size gets bigger, and the YPC does as well. It doesn't make sense. I think Kamara has been a bigger difference maker for the Saints than Fournette has for the Jags. Part of the ROTY award (just like the MVP and other awards) are based on team success. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it usually is. And Kamara's production is definitely inflated because of his situation, but I don't think it's inflated so much that it's causing me to overlook Fournette. Obviously Kamara is going to get off this hot streak at some point but over the last few weeks he's been one of the best RBs in the league. It's not like guys like Bell and Gurley aren't in good situations too, and he's but up numbers that are nearly on par with theirs over the last 6 or so weeks. You said earlier that teams don't really gameplan for Kamara when they have Thomas and Brees to worry about. What about Ben and AB? Or Goff and Woods/Watkins? Each week, the idea that he's benefiting from a great offense as opposed to helping create said great offense make less and less sense. Kamara was the only one who did anything against the Rams, Brees was done. This offense should be run through Ingram and Kamara and I suspect it will be as the season winds down. We'll see how he performs when he's clearly the #1 weapon for the offense, and nobody can say he's a product of it. I think he is there already, but understand if other aren't convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, jrry32 said: That doesn't answer the question of whether he SHOULD get it. None of us have any control over which player gets it. We're here to talk about what guy SHOULD get it. Those things absolutely need to be considered. Frankly, you see what Dak is doing now. It makes all the talk last year about him being in the running for MVP seem even more silly. I'm not saying he should or shouldn't, but a case can be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Kamara does get better looks than Ingram. Like his big run vs the Rams. This is why I say his YPC would go down if he was the primary back. But he also breaks a ton of tackles and squeezes out every yard possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said: And Sproles set the NFL single season record for all purpose yards at 2,696 and was an elite part of a 2011 offense that scored 63 TDs and racked up 7,474 yards of offense nd converted 57% of third downs. Cool. He still wasn’t above, or anywhere near, MJD, Lynch, Rice or Turner that year as a running back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 12 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said: I think Kamara has been a bigger difference maker for the Saints than Fournette has for the Jags. Really? We’re in two different universes, Fred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Cool. He still wasn’t above, or anywhere near, MJD, Lynch, Rice or Turner that year as a running back. Is this a feature back of the year award or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, Yin-Yang said: Really? Yeah. That doesn't mean he's the better RB and he's not in a better position to succeed, but IMO more yards and more scores on fewer touches makes him a bigger difference maker for his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 19 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said: That's fair, but I personally don't think it's enough to close the gap between the two. Each week the sample size gets bigger, and the YPC does as well. It doesn't make sense. I think Kamara has been a bigger difference maker for the Saints than Fournette has for the Jags. Part of the ROTY award (just like the MVP and other awards) are based on team success. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it usually is. And Kamara's production is definitely inflated because of his situation, but I don't think it's inflated so much that it's causing me to overlook Fournette. Obviously Kamara is going to get off this hot streak at some point but over the last few weeks he's been one of the best RBs in the league. It's not like guys like Bell and Gurley aren't in good situations too, and he's but up numbers that are nearly on par with theirs over the last 6 or so weeks. You said earlier that teams don't really gameplan for Kamara when they have Thomas and Brees to worry about. What about Ben and AB? Or Goff and Woods/Watkins? Each week, the idea that he's benefiting from a great offense as opposed to helping create said great offense make less and less sense. Kamara was the only one who did anything against the Rams, Brees was done. This offense should be run through Ingram and Kamara and I suspect it will be as the season winds down. We'll see how he performs when he's clearly the #1 weapon for the offense, and nobody can say he's a product of it. I think he is there already, but understand if other aren't convinced. Yea, I'm going to rescind that critique. Wade Phillips definitely gameplanned for him. We were doubling him at times when he was running routes with SS John Johnson and Ogletree or Barron. That didn't happen the entire game. His two big catches were on plays where he got singled up against Ogletree in coverage in space.(although that run-and-catch on the swing pass was his most impressive play of the game) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said: Is this a feature back of the year award or something? No, but why would I want a back to get more praise/an award when there are better players in the league? I used Sproles vs MJD as an example because as productive as Sproles was that season (many return yards btw), he still wasn’t viewed in the same light as other running backs who didn’t do as much in overall yardage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said: Yeah. That doesn't mean he's the better RB and he's not in a better position to succeed, but IMO more yards and more scores on fewer touches makes him a bigger difference maker for his team. It’s an unprovable point either way, so I know we’re just stating our opinions here, but I don’t think the Jags are in the playoff position they’re in right now without Fournette. I think the Saints are for the most part, maybe 2nd in the division at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: No, but why would I want a back to get more praise/an award when there are better players in the league? I used Sproles vs MJD as an example because as productive as Sproles was that season (many return yards btw), he still wasn’t viewed in the same light as other running backs who didn’t do as much in overall yardage. Well, look, I think a few guys are deserving of the award, perhaps more so than Kamara. But if Kamara is behind, it's not by much, and depending on how the season plays out, I think he could very well put himself into a position of having earned it. If he finishes the season with more yards, more TDs on fewer carries, he's got a real argument. And if he is performing at a slightly higher level than Sproles, that just means he is incredibly valuable to this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamedayGuru Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Lights Kamara Action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 14 hours ago, jrry32 said: That's overrating John Johnson. I haven't watched him that much, but I was high on him before the draft. Had him rated as a 1st round prospect. How would you rate his play thus far this season as a Rams fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 10 hours ago, jrry32 said: One guy has Drew Brees under center, Sean Payton calling plays, a great run-blocking OL, and Michael Thomas at WR. The other guy has Blake Bortles under center, Nathaniel Hackett calling plays, a mediocre run-blocking OL, and Marqise Lee at WR. The latter guy is the singular focus of the defense every time he steps onto the field. If you think that doesn't matter, I'll point you to Todd Gurley's production in 2016 vs. 2017. Kamara is doing great things with the touches he receives, but let's not pretend he isn't in one of the best situations in football for a guy with his talents. Can we say the same about Fournette? I saw Alvin making something out of nothing a lot last week. He breaks a ton of tackles. And he bails out Drew Brees a lot of times by turning shot little dump offs that should be losses into first downs. I don't know why you keep trying to diminish Alvin Kamara? Is it because you weren't high on him before the draft and you don't wanna believe he's actually this good? Alvin Kamara is doing more for Drew Brees and Michael Thomas than they are doing for him. He's the key to their offense this year. Without Alvin they are not the same team. I would suggest watching the games more rather than just assuming stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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