Soko Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 6 hours ago, VanS said: My God. Why do people who don't watch Kamara feel the need to always comment on him and make this silly comparison? Alvin is NOTHING like Darren Sproles. He's bigger, a much better runner, and a better all-around receiver. They just played for the same head coach. That's it. I didn’t say Kamara was similar to Sproles as a player. But they do play the same role in an offense and to this point, have similar production. That’s the comparison, the role and statistics, not their size (Kamara) or quickness (Sproles). 6 hours ago, VanS said: The Saints and are playing the Panthers on national TV this Sunday as the late afternoon Fox game. I would suggest watching that game and seeing Alvin in action. Maybe then you won't make such a silly comparison. I’ve watched most of the Saints games. It’s funny you assume otherwise because...I disagree with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVillain112 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 6 hours ago, VanS said: Alvin Kamara is doing more for Drew Brees and Michael Thomas than they are doing for him. He's the key to their offense this year. Without Alvin they are not the same team. I would suggest watching the games more rather than just assuming stuff. I love Kamara and was a big fan of his pre-draft. That said, he's not the key to the offense. It's Drew Brees #1 followed very closely but that great OL. Kamara would be #3. Kamara can be the second coming of Walter Payton and he would still be #3 behind a Great QB and OL. The return of Terron Armstead turned that already good OL into a top tier offensive line. That is what drives an offense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 hours ago, navysaintsfan said: Am I the only person who sees a lot of Brian Westbrook in Kamara's game? That's who he reminded me of as a sophomore at Tennessee. He's a lot better than that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, domepatrol91 said: Kamara has 1,094 of the Saints 4,503 yards, and 9 of their 32 TDs. That's 24.3% of the Saints yards and 28.1% of their offensive points. Fournette has 938 of the Jags 3,840 yards and 7 of their 23 TDs. That's 24.4% of the Jaguars yards and 30.4% of their offensive points. I understand there are better weapons around Kamara, but he's every bit a "focal point" to his offense as Fournette is to the Jags at this point. Teams are game planning against him, and when they forget to take him into account he makes huge plays. Alvin has significantly less touches though. If Alvin had Fournette's touches his numbers, even in this format you designed to help Fournette, would blow his numbers outta the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, TheVillain112 said: I love Kamara and was a big fan of his pre-draft. That said, he's not the key to the offense. It's Drew Brees #1 followed very closely but that great OL. Kamara would be #3. Kamara can be the second coming of Walter Payton and he would still be #3 behind a Great QB and OL. The return of Terron Armstead turned that already good OL into a top tier offensive line. That is what drives an offense... Only if you subscribe to the thinking that the QB is always the most important. Right now Drew Brees is not playing at a high level. His performance last week was pathetic. One of the reasons the Saints lost. Brees is no longer an elite QB. The o-line is elite sure. But so is Alvin. Those are the 2 elite units on the offense. The o-line and run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVillain112 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, VanS said: The o-line is elite sure. But so is Alvin. Those are the 2 elite units on the offense. The o-line and run game. So the OL is elite but you would still say that Kamara is the key to the offense instead of 5 guys playing at an elite level together? As for the other comment, I always subscribe to the theory that you should invest in the trenches. Franchise QB, OL, DL, and coaching are the 4 most important aspects for success IMHO. After that we can discuss skill position players, DB, LBs, special teams, etc... They all matter but honestly not as much IMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Yeah, Brees is not a top 5 QB anymore. His arm is shot and he hasn't accepted it. He's trying to fit balls into windows that he would've made 2 years ago and dropped INTs saved him from 3 or 4 picks last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 33 minutes ago, TheVillain112 said: As for the other comment, I always subscribe to the theory that you should invest in the trenches. Agreed. Armstead, Peat, Unger, Warford, Ramczyk is a nasty line and the motor to our offense. That's two 1st round picks in Peat and Ramy, a 2nd round pick Unger(Graham trade), and two 3rds (Terron and Warford, who the Saints signed to a big deal rather than drafted). Cam Jordan (1st initally and a large contract) and Sheldon Rankins (1st) getting double teamed most plays was freeing up Okafor (low risk FA) and Onymata (4th) to play much better than expected as well. I don't doubt our improved pass rush this year is one of the reasons Marshon is playing at an elite level instead of just good or great for a rookie. I feel like that's even moreso the case with Crawley, but he's been pretty darn good in man coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 34 minutes ago, MookieMonster said: Yeah, Brees is not a top 5 QB anymore. His arm is shot and he hasn't accepted it. He's trying to fit balls into windows that he would've made 2 years ago and dropped INTs saved him from 3 or 4 picks last week. After the Skins game (11/11 for 164, 2 TDs in the last 2 drives) I said Brees looked so good because he basically took the 2nd half of the Bills game off (24 consecutives run in the 2nd half) the week before. We all saw what he looked like against the Rams (garbage) after the Saints had to lean on him the week before and I don't think there's any doubt that Brees is in his final or 2nd to last season. His arm is hurting. If he comes out bad next week we're gonna have to go really run heavy, because I don't see too many more games this year where he's gonna get a break. I think he can still be effective but the Saints HAVE to get him on a pitch count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 hours ago, domepatrol91 said: Kamara has 1,094 of the Saints 4,503 yards, and 9 of their 32 TDs. That's 24.3% of the Saints yards and 28.1% of their offensive points. Fournette has 938 of the Jags 3,840 yards and 7 of their 23 TDs. That's 24.4% of the Jaguars yards and 30.4% of their offensive points. I understand there are better weapons around Kamara, but he's every bit a "focal point" to his offense as Fournette is to the Jags at this point. Teams are game planning against him, and when they forget to take him into account he makes huge plays. It’s more than just better receivers. It’s a QB that can actually beat you, a much better offensive line, and a much better coach. Offensively, the Saints really torch the Jaguars across the board except at running back. If Kamara wasn’t there, the Saints would be worse off but I doubt anyone would have them with a losing record. They still have Drew, that line, and Ingram to run it. Not sure the same can be said about Fournette. Using pure statistics isn’t enough to disregard all of that IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said: Using pure statistics isn’t enough to disregard all of that IMO. Right. I'm not disregarding all of that. I've said they're all fair points. I'm just saying I don't think it's enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said: Right. I'm not disregarding all of that. I've said they're all fair points. I'm just saying I don't think it's enough. Do you think the Saints would receive a bigger drop off if Kamara was replaced by a JAG than the Jaguars if Fournette was replaced by a JAG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 18 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Do you think the Saints would receive a bigger drop off if Kamara was replaced by a JAG than the Jaguars if Fournette was replaced by a JAG? I truly have no idea. I haven't watched enough Jags games to get a good enough look at Fournette. Kamara is 2nd on the team in receptions, 3rd in rec yards and 1st in receiving TDs as well, which can't be overlooked. It's tough to compare what they each do for their team because they're such different players. If either was replaced with JAG, both offenses would struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said: I truly have no idea. I haven't watched enough Jags games to get a good enough look at Fournette. Kamara is 2nd on the team in receptions, 3rd in rec yards and 1st in receiving TDs as well, which can't be overlooked. It's tough to compare what they each do for their team because they're such different players. If either was replaced with JAG, both offenses would struggle. Come on, I think you’re being at least a little bit coy here. I didn’t ask if you “know”, I asked what you “think”. If I asked you, who’d see a bigger drop off, Brady-less Pats or Kamara-less Saints, you could conceivably say “I don’t technically know” and not be officially wrong. The Saints have the #2 offense in the NFL (1st in DVOA) and you can attribute as much of that to Kamara as you’d like, but the fact of the matter is that the Saints have other avenues of moving the ball and scoring. Brees passing. A starting running back. A good line. An offensive minded coach. They score about 5 more PPG than Jacksonville. If Kamara were to suddenly disappear, the Saints can look elsewhere to get similar levels of offensive output - the Jaguars really can’t. The Jags are the 12th ranked offense (20th in DVOA) with, as we’ve stated, a pretty bad offense on paper sans Fournette. They also rely more on rushing yards for this output than the Saints do. You and a couple others have actually been pretty objective but I think you’re drinking kool-aid right now. EDIT: It’s not lost on me that you didn’t actually make a stance - so don’t just respond to a portion of this saying you weren’t disagreeing... Pretty obvious attempt at “I dunno man, they’re equally important to me”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I’m a Saints and Jags fan. I love Fourmette...perfect guy for the Jags...but he’s behind Kamara. Kamara is really special...and comparing him to Sproles is a joke. No they don’t do similar things for the offense...they are VERY different. Kamara is like a sick combo of Jamaal Charles and Brian Westbrook. I don’t know where he will be next year or the year after that...but here and now...you may not find a better RB in the league than Kamara. Dudes insane. I mean, what else does the guy need to show people other than longevity? Does he need to average 9 yards per carry and score every time he touches it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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