How are those Rookies Doing? Mid-Season Edition

[tyler735]

6 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said:

NO!

i mean it’ll never happen, but I don’t think Payton is special. He can scheme a special offense for sure, but his execution and some other more minor facets of his way of doing things really hold him back.

I can't get on board with that yet. When it's simply something like give Kamara more touches. Payton is far from perfect but he's brought us our only championship. He has a team with the firepower to make a run this year. He has a great relationship with our franchise QB. At this point we have to ride it out. I think there's a better chance we divide the locker room than increase success if we get rid of Payton at this point.

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, domepatrol91 said:

Most likely. But if a worse coach understands having your best offensive weapon on the bench in a hugely important game is a bad idea, maybe the worse coach comes out with better results. 

Paytons genius is his biggest undoing.

I'm sure Payton had reasons for why he was doing that.

[Dome]

Just now, jrry32 said:

I'm sure Payton had reasons for why he was doing that.

I’m sure he does, but I doubt it’s a good one. I’d love to hear it.

[jrry32]

Just now, domepatrol91 said:

I’d love to hear it.

You'd have to ask him. Maybe he trusted Ingram more in pass pro. Maybe he thought Ingram was a better between the tackles runner. Maybe the Rams presented more favorable personnel packages with Ingram back there. When they decided to go to the air near the end, they split Kamara out, so I doubt it's that Payton simply doesn't appreciate his abilities.

McVay frustrated me today with all the Tavon Austin touches when we should have been feeding Gurley, but I'm not about to bite the hand that feeds us.

[tyler735]

2 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said:

I’m sure he does, but I doubt it’s a good one. I’d love to hear it.

Probably a classic case of a coach out thinking himself.

[Dome]

2 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

I can't get on board with that yet. When it's simply something like give Kamara more touches. Payton is far from perfect but he's brought us our only championship. He has a team with the firepower to make a run this year. He has a great relationship with our franchise QB. At this point we have to ride it out. I think there's a better chance we divide the locker room than increase success if we get rid of Payton at this point.

Which is why I said it’ll never happen, it’s not realistic to fire a coach after a season that saw an 8 game win streak and likely playoff berth.I can’t HONESTLY say I’m on board with firing him, but a trade could sway me.

From what I’ve seen over the years, great things happen when Payton steps back and let’s his defensive coordinator coordinate his defense and his offensive coordinator coordinate his offense. Payton is the brain behind the offense, but sometimes his “vision” blocks his view of what needs to happen on the field.

I don’t believe Payton is a great HC because when he’s “the guy” he’s put together some mediocre seasons with a HOF QB wasting away. When he leans on his assistants, we have success.

I don’t think you need to be an offensive genius to run an offense through Drew Brees, but you’d have to be an idiot (or blinded by your own genius) to call some of the games he has.

[MookieMonstah]

6 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Probably a classic case of a coach out thinking himself.

Or simple NFL fans (not a knock) not understanding the complexities of the NFL.

[Dome]

10 minutes ago, MookieMonster said:

Or simple NFL fans (not a knock) not understanding the complexities of the NFL.

I’m sure Payton has forgotten more about running an offense than I’ll ever know. But his isn’t the first time there have been serious questions about his RB management and I’m looking for answers.

You don’t a player as electric and efficient as Kamara is on the bench as much as he is on any other team. I can’t think of any, anyways.

I’d really like an explanation, with specific examples of what Payton was seeing from the defense to think Ingram was our best bet to win the game. 

We’ll never get it cause that’s just not how this works, but my simple fan brain (I didn’t take it as a knock  ) might be able to understand or at least accept it if there was something of an explanation. Cause common sense tells you to put your best playmaker on the field for the most important moments. This game was one of those moments and I’d like to know why the guy carrying our offense wasn’t featured.

[jrry32]

12 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said:

Which is why I said it’ll never happen, it’s not realistic to fire a coach after a season that saw an 8 game win streak and likely playoff berth.I can’t HONESTLY say I’m on board with firing him, but a trade could sway me.

From what I’ve seen over the years, great things happen when Payton steps back and let’s his defensive coordinator coordinate his defense and his offensive coordinator coordinate his offense. Payton is the brain behind the offense, but sometimes his “vision” blocks his view of what needs to happen on the field.

I don’t believe Payton is a great HC because when he’s “the guy” he’s put together some mediocre seasons with a HOF QB wasting away. When he leans on his assistants, we have success.

I don’t think you need to be an offensive genius to run an offense through Drew Brees, but you’d have to be an idiot (or blinded by your own genius) to call some of the games he has.

I think a great HC knows when to delegate. McVay is impressive in that ability. He's completely turned the defense over to Wade and the special teams over to Fassel. They're both amazing at what they do.

3 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said:

I’m sure Payton has forgotten more about running an offense than I’ll ever know. But his isn’t the first time there have been serious questions about his RB management and I’m looking for answers.

You don’t a player as electric and efficient as Kamara is on the bench as much as he is on any other team. I can’t think of any, anyways.

I’d really like an explanation, with specific examples of what Payton was seeing from the defense to think Ingram was our best bet to win the game. 

We’ll never get it cause that’s just not how this works, but my simple fan brain (I didn’t take it as a knock  ) might be able to understand or at least accept it if there was something of an explanation. Cause common sense tells you to put your best playmaker on the field for the most important moments. This game was one of those moments and I’d like to know why the guy carrying our offense wasn’t featured.

I'll just throw this out there based on my perceptions: They thought Ingram was the better between the tackles runner. Y'all weren't running on us E-W. We have a ton of defensive speed. Kamara had that huge run where he was basically untouched for the first 70 yards because of the blocking. After that, our defense really clamped down on the run (story of our year, we always do that). They probably felt Ingram gave them a better chance of running up the middle and grinding out yardage. They did use Kamara often in the passing game.

[Dome]

That’s fair @jrry32 (all outta likes for today. I’ll getchu tomorrow) but you’d think he’s shown enough that you’d give him a chance to fail between the tackles. Ingram clearly wasn’t working either, it’s not like he was gashing you for chunk yards and we couldn’t stop feeding him.

A 74 yard score to start his game followed up by  just 4 more carries the rest of the game is unacceptable.

The guy is one of the best in the league with the ball in his hands, I believe that this early in his career. You gotta get the ball in his hands, even if you don’t think the Xs and Os are perfect.

[jrry32]

Just now, domepatrol91 said:

That’s fair @jrry32 (all outta likes for today. I’ll getchu tomorrow) but you’d think he’s shown enough that you’d give him a chance to fail between the tackles. Ingram clearly wasn’t working either, it’s not like he was gashing you for chunk yards and we couldn’t stop feeding him.

A 74 yard score to start his game followed up by  just 4 more carries the rest of the game is unacceptable.

The guy is one of the best in the league with the ball in his hands, I believe that this early in his career. You gotta get the ball in his hands, even if you don’t think the Xs and Os are perfect.

I'm also out of likes. This Tennessee-Schiano mess cleaned me out. 

[tyler735]

20 minutes ago, MookieMonster said:

Or simple NFL fans (not a knock) not understanding the complexities of the NFL.

While I'm not doubting Payton has more knowledge than any of us on this board will ever have running an NFL offense, I'm betting he will probably 2nd guess some of his decisions when he looks at the film watching Kamara put up one of the best RB performances of the 2017 season and seeing Kamara creating a ton of yards on his own.

[Dome]

3 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

While I'm not doubting Payton has more knowledge than any of us on this board will ever have running an NFL offense, I'm betting he will probably 2nd guess some of his decisions when he looks at the film watching Kamara put up one of the best RB performances of the 2017 season and seeing Kamara creating a ton of yards on his own.

Kamara should pull a Cooks.

“Gimme the ball.” Kamara will have a valid reason though.  

[tyler735]

After today's game, Kamara is on pace for about 1,600 (1,591) yards rushing/receiving, 7.1 ypc, and 13 touchdowns. He has a legit shot at offensive rookie of the year. 

[hsfolk]