A New Era: Zimmer and Spielman both fired on Black Monday

[Ozzy]

2 minutes ago, Duluther said:

I just done see any possibility for Flores to Minnesota.

 

We fired a D coordinator who had a rough personality, further stating we want to focus on good collaborators in this regime.

 

Flores is like the opposite of what they’re looking for.

Brian Flores has a rough personality?  Based on what?  Him not wanting to play Tua as a rookie and win games last season?  Obviously he was fired because the Owner believes a different coach could get more out of Tua when in reality maybe Tua was just wildly overrated.

[AP_allday2869]

4 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Brian Flores has a rough personality?  Based on what?  Him not wanting to play Tua as a rookie and win games last season?  Obviously he was fired because the Owner believes a different coach could get more out of Tua when in reality maybe Tua was just wildly overrated.

Apparently, he was telling Tua he wished they drafted Mac Jones, and wouldn't say hi to people in the hallways. Kind of like Zimmer wouldn't.

Edited January 14, 2022 by AP_allday2869

[Ozzy]

2 minutes ago, AP_allday2869 said:

Apparently, he was telling Tua he wished they drafted Mac Jones, and wouldn't say hi to people in the hallways. Kind of like Zimmer wouldn't.

So a head coach has to say hi to everyone he sees in the freaking hallway?  Yeah Matt LaFleur who looks like kind of an *** on the sidelines, he is just Mr. Nice in Green Bay?  No but no one cares because they are winning.  

 

But sure maybe they go a different direction and get some nice offensive coordinator type, that is great but no saying that brings the team any wins.  Positive communication style is important sure but then again you think Bill Belichick says hi everyone he sees in the building?  No freaking way!

[swede700]

9 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Brian Flores has a rough personality?  Based on what?  Him not wanting to play Tua as a rookie and win games last season?  Obviously he was fired because the Owner believes a different coach could get more out of Tua when in reality maybe Tua was just wildly overrated.

Based on the discussions surrounding his departure from Miami, yes, he wasn't on the same page with the owner and GM and was basically defiant of them. So, yes, he has a rough personality.  

[Ozzy]

7 minutes ago, swede700 said:

Based on the discussions surrounding his departure from Miami, yes, he wasn't on the same page with the owner and GM and was basically defiant of them. So, yes, he has a rough personality.  

I say again tell me a wildly successful NFL coach that is just an absolute joy to everyone he knows.  

 

A lot of people hated Bill Parcells, they hated Tom Coughlin, Bill Belichick, Bill Walsh etc.  Those are not easy guys to get along with, only reason people care is if they lose which Zimmer obviously did of late.  If they would have won no one would care about his personality.

 

[AP_allday2869]

31 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

So a head coach has to say hi to everyone he sees in the freaking hallway?  Yeah Matt LaFleur who looks like kind of an *** on the sidelines, he is just Mr. Nice in Green Bay?  No but no one cares because they are winning.  

 

But sure maybe they go a different direction and get some nice offensive coordinator type, that is great but no saying that brings the team any wins.  Positive communication style is important sure but then again you think Bill Belichick says hi everyone he sees in the building?  No freaking way!

You are getting really mad for no reason, why don't you calm down 🤣 I don't give a $%@# if a coach says hi or not, but Brian O'Niell (I think) mentioned it, so obviously it probably means something to the players... I love how you talk about that but conveniently ignore how he told his young QB to his face he wished he drafted another QB over him.

Edited January 14, 2022 by AP_allday2869

[wcblack34]

Fans can want and like any candidate of their choosing. However, it will be the Owners and GM who will make the call. If they don't want a candidate with a rough personality, as they perceive it, they won't hire him. I'd prefer a collaborator who will get along with the players, but will push them. I think that is a guy like Campbell. 

In the end, Mike Zimmer isn't the coach anymore. I think that is a positive. I will hope that whoever the Wilfs land on makes the team better and does so for the next two decades. I'd love for us to get our Bellichek or Tomlin. If that's Flores, so be it. If it isn't, cool. 

I'd also prefer a guy who realizes this is an offensive league and leans into that.

[CriminalMind]

1 hour ago, Heimdallr said:

We need a change of culture, and they aren't the typical football insider good ole boys. They got where they are because of ability and competency, not because they made a name as a player or are related to the right people. 

Kwesi is obviously crazy smart, and you know Catherine has had to work 10x harder and have near flawless work to make it in the NFL as a woman. Both come from operations backgrounds which I think is far, far more important for a GM than football experience or a scouting background. 

 

Big plus one from me. Kwesi #1 and Catherine #2. I agree with wanting a “rising star” on the operations side. Scouting side is important, but I want a business manager (making pure business decisions). Scouting is important but it can also be something that is outsourced as well. 
 

i want someone who people have been propelling up because of their smarts, not because of who they necessarily know. Sure that leads us to young/“less experience” individuals, but the “more experience” individuals also have a long laundry list of failures as well. I want to take a chance on the next “best one” with the fresh ideas, not someone who is shaped by alot of non pertinent information and experience (and not bold enough). 
 

These two individuals are likely the smartest people in an NFL room, who have been sitting behind old w men since coming into the NFL & it didn’t faze them. 

[Ozzy]

26 minutes ago, AP_allday2869 said:

You are getting really mad for no reason, why don't you calm down 🤣 I don't give a $%@# if a coach says hi or not, but Brian O'Niell (I think) mentioned it, so obviously it probably means something to the players... I love how you talk about that but conveniently ignore how he told his young QB to his face he wished he drafted another QB over him.

 I say again only reason anyone cares about Zimmer's personality is because they lost games, if they won 3-4 more games this year he would most likely still be the coach.

Sure O'Neill said something, but again if they would have won as a team no one would give a crap what O'Neill's feelings are on the subject because there would be results people wanted.

 

So for the Vikings to go out and simply hire a 'nice' coach, that absolutely absurd and if that is the bar enjoy the failure soon to come.  

 

There is a laundry list of African American defensive coordinators that are not hired as head coaches because what they do not "interview" well?  Or because the rich white owner cannot relate to this black coach and connect with them like they can with their white counterparts unless they are wildly charismatic or communicate extremely well ala Mike Tomlin.  Either way hopefully some 'Black' coaches get opportunities this time around unlike the last coaching hire cycle.  

[RpMc]

15 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I say again tell me a wildly successful NFL coach that is just an absolute joy to everyone he knows.  

 

A lot of people hated Bill Parcells, they hated Tom Coughlin, Bill Belichick, Bill Walsh etc.  Those are not easy guys to get along with, only reason people care is if they lose which Zimmer obviously did of late.  If they would have won no one would care about his personality.

 

Not a single person is saying that a coach has to be a joy to everyone he knows, and you know that.  A coach does have to be accountable for the environment that they create just like any manager or business owner in any walk of life.

You want your employees to perform at their best? You've got to put them in an environment suited for it.  For some, that's as simple as hearing their name spoken to them in a greeting.  For others, they need a coach so far up their backside that when they open their mouth it's the coach speaking.  We very well could have been getting minimal contributions from rookies during Zimmer's tenure because he was dismissive of younger players; athletes these days are also much less accepting of blind-authority.  The days of "this person is the coach, I need to respect and listen to them" are pretty much gone.  You want someone's respect, you want people to follow you, you better be able to give them a reason why.  I'm not shocked that it's come out that Justin Fields believes that Nagy was a fraud and that led to some of the issues this year.

Walsh was also one of the more forward-thinking coaches of his time

"People thrive on positive reinforcement. They can only take a certain amount of criticism, and you may lose them all together if you criticize them in a personal way... you can make a point without being personal.  Don't insult or belittle your people. Instead of getting more out of them you will get less."

- Bill Walsh.

----------

So, yes, while a coach doesn't have to be all sunshines and rainbows, if you want sustained success you better have someone in place that's going to prioritize the environment.

[gopherwrestler]

24 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 I say again only reason anyone cares about Zimmer's personality is because they lost games, if they won 3-4 more games this year he would most likely still be the coach.

Sure O'Neill said something, but again if they would have won as a team no one would give a crap what O'Neill's feelings are on the subject because there would be results people wanted.

 

So for the Vikings to go out and simply hire a 'nice' coach, that absolutely absurd and if that is the bar enjoy the failure soon to come.  

 

There is a laundry list of African American defensive coordinators that are not hired as head coaches because what they do not "interview" well?  Or because the rich white owner cannot relate to this black coach and connect with them like they can with their white counterparts unless they are wildly charismatic or communicate extremely well ala Mike Tomlin.  Either way hopefully some 'Black' coaches get opportunities this time around unlike the last coaching hire cycle.  

Ozzy, it’s against forum rules for any race talk. Let’s just leave anything due to race off of the forums please.

[Ozzy]

16 minutes ago, RpMc said:

Not a single person is saying that a coach has to be a joy to everyone he knows, and you know that.  A coach does have to be accountable for the environment that they create just like any manager or business owner in any walk of life.

You want your employees to perform at their best? You've got to put them in an environment suited for it.  For some, that's as simple as hearing their name spoken to them in a greeting.  For others, they need a coach so far up their backside that when they open their mouth it's the coach speaking.  We very well could have been getting minimal contributions from rookies during Zimmer's tenure because he was dismissive of younger players; athletes these days are also much less accepting of blind-authority.  The days of "this person is the coach, I need to respect and listen to them" are pretty much gone.  You want someone's respect, you want people to follow you, you better be able to give them a reason why.  I'm not shocked that it's come out that Justin Fields believes that Nagy was a fraud and that led to some of the issues this year.

Walsh was also one of the more forward-thinking coaches of his time

"People thrive on positive reinforcement. They can only take a certain amount of criticism, and you may lose them all together if you criticize them in a personal way... you can make a point without being personal.  Don't insult or belittle your people. Instead of getting more out of them you will get less."

- Bill Walsh.

----------

So, yes, while a coach doesn't have to be all sunshines and rainbows, if you want sustained success you better have someone in place that's going to prioritize the environment.

Very true, but yeah when people bring up Brian Flores not saying hi to people in the building, yeah I kind of have a problem with that evaluation of his character.  Also Bill Walsh if I recall was totally hated by a lot of people in the NFL, and sure he thought outside of the box a bit but honestly is one of the best football coaches of all time.  Maybe the dislike of him was more from the opposing coaching side and the owner/management side of the NFL.

 

I do agree one has to be all for the players and support them and that is not shown any better than Nick Saban currently.  He is tough, he has an attitude but he defends his players when need be as shown here after the National Title game.  He is also in a different position as a college coach compared to a NFL coach and in this specific example is more used to hard media questions after a big loss than Bryce or Will are.  

 

 

Possibly the likes of Bill Belichick is only harsh to the media and he treats his players great but not sure that is the case exactly.  But he gets some leeway because he has won Super Bowls, same with Saban he has won National Titles so there is some street cred there regardless.  

 

But of course is easy to say I did not like this coach or that coach once they are fired because of losing and players not performing.  Coaches obviously get probably far too much credit for when teams win and too much blame for when they lose. 

Then again they create the environment of the team and run it so there is that, but ultimately the best teams are usually player lead and the coach just helps be the general manager of it all.  Buccaneers were great with Bruce Arians but even more great is Tom Brady being on the roster, he clearly had way more to do with their success and general leadership of the team than Bruce Arians did.  Also helps All Pro Tristan Wirfs fell right to them and he should have been picked #4 overall by the Giants and instead went 13th overall, totally solidified that offensive line with the other additions they made.  

 

[RpMc]

^^
I very much agree with you that the best of teams have players driving the culture as well.

[marshpit23]

42 minutes ago, RpMc said:

Not a single person is saying that a coach has to be a joy to everyone he knows, and you know that.  A coach does have to be accountable for the environment that they create just like any manager or business owner in any walk of life.

You want your employees to perform at their best? You've got to put them in an environment suited for it.  For some, that's as simple as hearing their name spoken to them in a greeting.  For others, they need a coach so far up their backside that when they open their mouth it's the coach speaking.  We very well could have been getting minimal contributions from rookies during Zimmer's tenure because he was dismissive of younger players; athletes these days are also much less accepting of blind-authority.  The days of "this person is the coach, I need to respect and listen to them" are pretty much gone.  You want someone's respect, you want people to follow you, you better be able to give them a reason why.  I'm not shocked that it's come out that Justin Fields believes that Nagy was a fraud and that led to some of the issues this year.

Walsh was also one of the more forward-thinking coaches of his time

"People thrive on positive reinforcement. They can only take a certain amount of criticism, and you may lose them all together if you criticize them in a personal way... you can make a point without being personal.  Don't insult or belittle your people. Instead of getting more out of them you will get less."

- Bill Walsh.

----------

So, yes, while a coach doesn't have to be all sunshines and rainbows, if you want sustained success you better have someone in place that's going to prioritize the environment.

Damn good post! 

[SemperFeist]