Bears Hire Ryan Poles as GM & Matt Eberflus as HC

[Heinz D.]

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

I wouldn't call him spectacular yet. He is uber-talented, but his passing still needs to improve. I mean he is a rookie so that's expected though.

I'm going off of what I believe Fields will be...not what he currently is. And that's the true determinant in this argument.

If I'm wrong about Fields (and hey, I was wrong about Trubisky)--then this whole conversation is pointless, and the Bears have to start all over again at the QB spot.

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

Cam ran like Tebow, he tried to run THROUGH defenders. I don't think anyone here wants Fields doing that. I'd be damn happy for him to get 5-8 yards and slide when defenders get close. Protecting himself is more important than a first down until the post-season.

Structuring an offense like that tends to MAKE quarterbacks play like that, though. 

It wasn't simply a series of brain-farts by Newton. Let's be serious. 

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

Harbaugh has had a hell of a lot more success than York and Baalke have since the split. I'd say Harbaugh has won that split in spades. And if you were told after averaging like 11 wins per year that these two dbags were trying to trade you to CLE, wouldn't you be pissed? I'd be livid.

Harbaugh went back to college. Where the coaching is simpler, and the acquisition of talent has nothing to do with a common draft pool. 

You...really don't want me to expound on that, do you? 

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

Can you clarify how? Not being snarky, I genuinely don't understand.

Well, first off, there's no reason Harbaugh couldn't adapt, if given another shot in the pros. 

He might be touched, but he isn't an idiot...I'll give you that.

What, otherwise, would I tell you? Go back and watch those teams. It's a college offense being run by an NFL team. 

There's a reason Harbaugh walked away from the pros. And it's not because he wants to be able to go to church on Sundays. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Heinz D.

[Madmike90]

2 minutes ago, blkwdw13 said:

I wasn't either but some mentioned him, and I agree it seems like a weird to to go from Oklahoma to USC.

This would make it even more crazy if it happened...

Adam Schefter

 

@AdamSchefter

 

Oklahoma has targeted Cardinals’ HC Kliff Kingsbury as one of the potential replacements for Lincoln Riley, league sources tell ESPN. Kingsbury has one year remaining on his contract after this season.

[Heinz D.]

Just now, Madmike90 said:

This would make it even more crazy if it happened...

Adam Schefter

 

@AdamSchefter

 

Oklahoma has targeted Cardinals’ HC Kliff Kingsbury as one of the potential replacements for Lincoln Riley, league sources tell ESPN. Kingsbury has one year remaining on his contract after this season.

Oklahoma be smokin' some GOOD ****...

[Madmike90]

Just now, Heinz D. said:

Oklahoma be smokin' some GOOD ****...

Yeah I suspect this is Kingsbury's agent is stirring this up for an extension more than anything else.

[Heinz D.]

Just now, Madmike90 said:

Yeah I suspect this is Kingsbury's agent is stirring this up for an extension more than anything else.

All due respect, I doubt it. This is just simply outright arrogance by the Oklahoma athletic board. 

Kingsbury could make the Super Bowl, THIS YEAR? But yeah, Oklahoma has to be a more inviting option, right?

Freakin' megalomaniacal idiots. 

[abstract_thought]

2 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Whats disingenuous is pretending his offense was the reason for their success.

His top 10 offense was certainly a reason for his team’s success. That’s not disingenuous. Harbaugh’s teams averaged 31ppg in their playoff wins. Those teams were absolutely not carried only by defense.

[beardown3231]

52 minutes ago, blkwdw13 said:

I wasn't either but some mentioned him, and I agree it seems like a weird to to go from Oklahoma to USC.

Would you rather make more money living in southern California or less money living in Oklahoma?

There's nothing weird about this.

[blkwdw13]

1 minute ago, beardown3231 said:

Would you rather make more money living in southern California or less money living in Oklahoma?

There's nothing weird about this.

Assuming Oklahoma would match his salary that USC gave him, I would stay at Oklahoma and the cheaper cost of living. Both are power house schools, USC has fallen a good amount so I would think Oklahoma is the better coaching job right now. 

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

I'm going off of what I believe Fields will be...not what he currently is. And that's the true determinant in this argument.

If I'm wrong about Fields (and hey, I was wrong about Trubisky)--then this whole conversation is pointless, and the Bears have to start all over again at the QB spot.

Gotcha. When you said "is" I thought you meant right now he is polished. Not has potential to be. I can agree with that then.

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

Structuring an offense like that tends to MAKE quarterbacks play like that, though. 

It wasn't simply a series of brain-farts by Newton. Let's be serious. 

Because he played to his strengths, not because coaches didn't adapt to him or force him into that role.

I never made it seem like brain farts on his behalf, I'm not really sure where that came from. He was/is a limited passer. He was a 240+ pound guy who was built like a TE. He couldn't run around people like Jackson did. He could get a head of steam and run through a lot of people though. He did it because it was one of the few things that made him successful. As a passer he is mediocre.

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

Harbaugh went back to college. Where the coaching is simpler, and the acquisition of talent has nothing to do with a common draft pool. 

You...really don't want me to expound on that, do you? 

Still has nothing to do with your original point. Saban went back to college and went to a big program with a ton of prestige. Has nothing to do with the offense ran.

You said he ran straight up college schemes and BAL doesn't. You haven't presented anything to prove otherwise.

2 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

I think you're forgetting Harbaugh's 49er offense. And ignoring why he resigned and went back to the collegiate ranks. 

Also--Baltimore doesn't even come close to running a straight-up college scheme offensively. Which Harbaugh did in San Fran. 

^^^ Nothing is noted about the offense ran IN college, we were talking about the style ran in the pros.

I'd like you to expound on THAT point, because I see nothing that supports that so far. BAL is by far more a college offense if we are talking structure and design.

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

Well, first off, there's no reason Harbaugh couldn't adapt, if given another shot in the pros. 

He might be touched, but he isn't an idiot...I'll give you that.

If he had Fields, ARob, Mooney and the duo of RBs we have then I see zero reason his offense wouldn't work. He would have to keep adding talent to the OL but the one thing they actually do pretty well is run block.

I'm not sure there is a need to adapt the system as much as the talent that fits in the system. Same thing with BAL. If they had a guy that wasn't a generational freak athlete at QB they would have to be more traditional in passing. But it works for them. If Kaep was a better passer then they likely would have put more on his plate. Fitting the system to the talent is a plus IMO, not a detriment.

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

What, otherwise, would I tell you? Go back and watch those teams. It's a college offense being run by an NFL team. 

I mean, go back and watch Stanford. It was a more pro-style offense than we run with Nagy, what we fan with Trestman, or either SF or BAL did.

BAL is a college offense and it is getting 24ppg and that is with Lamar going down. Last year it was at 29ppg. They had 33 ppg the year before that.

If it works it works. We have a pretty pro style offense with Nagy and its trash. Style is irrelevant if it isn't effective. Jim's has been.

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

There's a reason Harbaugh walked away from the pros. And it's not because he wants to be able to go to church on Sundays. 

You're stretching there. lol  Do you think he had no options to take a job in the NFL? Or people thought he couldn't hack it? No way.

He took an $7.4 mil per year deal to coach his alma mater. He got full control instead of dealing with pricks like Baalke and York. They literally paid him more than Saban was making.

Other teams that he could have had job offers that year were DET, HOU, MIN, CLE, WAS, and TB. None of them were nearly as good a situation. Would you have taken them over Michigan with that deal? Especially knowing the organizations aren't exactly gold standards for success? And do you think all those teams would choose their HCs over Harbaugh? Smith, Zimmer, Pettine, Caldwell, BOB, and Jay Gruden? Over a guy who had a winning record and several playoff wins? Hell no. He had his pick of the lot and chose the best deal at the time.

[Heinz D.]

17 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

You're stretching there. lol  Do you think he had no options to take a job in the NFL? Or people thought he couldn't hack it? No way.

Harbaugh had a special meeting with folks from the rules committee, about the QB being vulnerable on RPO plays. They told him that the QB couldn't always be protected (although in subsequent years that's become closer to happening)...and after that, Harbaugh went back to the NCAA. 

Don't know what to tell you, bud. That's all just fact. 

That doesn't matter, in a lot of ways, though. Harbaugh would be a poor choice to coach the Bears. If Spurious George snags Harbaugh, it will be a mistake. 

And two years from now, we'll likely all be in agreement on that statement. 

[Madmike90]

2 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

Obviously much more goes into being a Head Coach than just having an awesome scheme and the ability to put your players in the right position to win but...

The Offences I would love here by far the most would be Dallas or New England's...both are so versatile and multiple it makes defences have to play on the back foot at all times because they both just throw so much at you in the run and pass game...

Tennessee today did everything to stop the run and put the game in Mac Jones' hands and the route combinations that NE ran gave him mostly wide open throws with multiple options...such a clever design in their routes...multiple times I saw 3 WRs look like they were running the same route then 2 did ran the same and 1 then broke into the space left by one of the other two who had cleared out the cover and that left Mac with such an easy read...just so smart...then as the game went on it became situational football with them just continuing to commit to the run to keep the Titans offence off the field and eventually it started to work and they still went over the 100 yard mark...

I still think Daboll is smart enough to build an offence like this with the talented upgrade he would get at RB but McDaniels & Moore have these offences ready to roll from day one...McDaniels maybe gets the edge over Moore here just because he is working with less talented players but still producing at a really high level.

Don't take my word for it...

https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2021/11/28/how-josh-mcdaniels-is-helping-wipe-away-mac-jones-shortcomings/

“Josh does a really good job scheming how to move guys out of zones,” receiver Kendrick Bourne said on Sunday after the game. “Using me in the flat to get guys out of there to open up behind them and stuff. It’s just a great scheme. Mac’s reading it tremendously, and it’s just working really well. Josh has just figured out how to use us really well and in different ways to threaten the defense in different ways. It’s like you can’t do one thing. You have to play almost guessing defense.”

Really good read about how McDaniels is making Jones' life much easier...do that for a QB with twice the talent like Fields and look out.

[JAF-N72EX]

4 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Don't take my word for it...

https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2021/11/28/how-josh-mcdaniels-is-helping-wipe-away-mac-jones-shortcomings/

“Josh does a really good job scheming how to move guys out of zones,” receiver Kendrick Bourne said on Sunday after the game. “Using me in the flat to get guys out of there to open up behind them and stuff. It’s just a great scheme. Mac’s reading it tremendously, and it’s just working really well. Josh has just figured out how to use us really well and in different ways to threaten the defense in different ways. It’s like you can’t do one thing. You have to play almost guessing defense.”

Really good read about how McDaniels is making Jones' life much easier...do that for a QB with twice the talent like Fields and look out.

But he's playing within the confines of Belichick's proven philosophy and well structured system that has been there for 20+ years. Take McDaniels out of that and is he the same coach? That's what I worry about with him (and any other coach from the Belly tree).

All in all, I'm just not blown away by any of the possible HC candidates other than Cambell and Day and they aren't going anywhere. I do see alot of good positional coaches though.

[Madmike90]

Just now, JAF-N72EX said:

But he's playing within the confines of Belichick's proven philosophy and well structured system that has been there for 20+ years. Take McDaniels out of that and is he the same coach? That's what I worry about with him (and any other coach from the Belly tree).

All in all, I'm just not blown away by any of the possible HC candidates other than Cambell and Day and they aren't going anywhere. I do see alot of good positional coaches though.

Belichick isn't out there designing the plays or more importantly calling them at the right time...that is all McDaniels...not only that but if you want to talk about the "system" it doesn't exist...that's what makes their offence so special...it is tailored year in year out to the players they have...not trying to force players in to it so it can't be said it's just a system that keeps rolling...it is refreshed constantly...not only that but if you want to talk about the last 20 years McDaniels has been in since 2001 out with his 3 years away in the middle so it is pretty clear he is the biggest part of that offence and Belichick trusts him to be that...

I can somewhat understand the thought process with Day but for me Campbell is the most overrated candidate out there right now...I don't want anything to do with him...only coach I would want from college would be Harbaugh and I doubt he is going anywhere either.

[Sugashane]

33 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Harbaugh had a special meeting with folks from the rules committee, about the QB being vulnerable on RPO plays. They told him that the QB couldn't always be protected (although in subsequent years that's become closer to happening)...and after that, Harbaugh went back to the NCAA. 

Don't know what to tell you, bud. That's all just fact. 

That doesn't matter, in a lot of ways, though. Harbaugh would be a poor choice to coach the Bears. If Spurious George snags Harbaugh, it will be a mistake. 

And two years from now, we'll likely all be in agreement on that statement. 

And it was again irrelevant to the situation. He didn't leave the NFL because of the meeting with the rules committee. That's beyond absurd.  lol

You're glossing over literally everything between Harbaugh and the front office. You're glossing over their demand to draft guys like Lamichael James and others against Harbaugh's wishes. They were bitter at each other even to the point of Jim showing up to the Levi Stadium ribbon cutting in gameday attire (which was seen as a disrespect).

The actual relevant facts are there were struggles because Jim was annoyed with stupid moves by FO and them undercutting him - in his opinion. They were mad he went back at them and refused to let him have more control over the roster. York and Baalke wanted Jim gone because they thought they were the ones who made the team go to 3 NFC Championships, Jim said he'd be fine with leaving and would enjoy watching them fail essentially, and they split. He then got a monster deal to coach at his alma mater. Well now they have split and Harbaugh has helped resurrect Michigan while SF has had one winning season without Jim. Baalke has been fired and shown his incompetence in JAX already, and SF is looking like anywhere from mediocre to crap overall, again. All facts.

Regardless of whether Jim is a good choice or not you've dodged all the questions on statements you've made. Sorry but unless you can support any point you've made other than you just not liking him - and I agree he can be a REALLY unlikable guy - then the points are moot. Straw man arguments against him or the offensive structures aren't really supporting your points at all.

 

[JAF-N72EX]

4 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Belichick isn't out there designing the plays or more importantly calling them at the right time...that is all McDaniels...not only that but if you want to talk about the "system" it doesn't exist...that's what makes their offence so special...it is tailored year in year out to the players they have...not trying to force players in to it so it can't be said it's just a system that keeps rolling...it is refreshed constantly...not only that but if you want to talk about the last 20 years McDaniels has been in since 2001 out with his 3 years away in the middle so it is pretty clear he is the biggest part of that offence and Belichick trusts him to be that...

I can somewhat understand the thought process with Day but for me Campbell is the most overrated candidate out there right now...I don't want anything to do with him...only coach I would want from college would be Harbaugh and I doubt he is going anywhere either.

I'm talking about the culture itself and how it was built. Everything runs through Belichick. Even the offense. Belichick doesn't just run defense and leaves everything to McDaniels. It's a collective effort. It's been shown many times on different documentaries and all access.

For example: McDaniels is nowhere to be found.