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What exactly is a choke artist?


biggie.

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I think we can all agree getting to the Super Bowl is vey difficult, let alone winning the whole thing. At what point do playoff failures put a player/team into choker territory? Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre both won a Super Bowl, but both have that tag on them. Peyton Manning won two (granted his last one was when he was a zombie) and even then he has the choker tag.

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2 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Consistently being favored/being a high seed and consistently failing - the earlier the exit, the worse the choke. People really misuse the label, though. There were seriously people calling Mahomes a choker because he lost the Super Bowl last year. 

To me the biggest choke artists are Marino and McNabb because not only did neither win it all, they got worse the deeper they get in the playoffs.

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I know I'm in the vast minority here, but I still believe in the "get one super bowl and the monkey is off your back" logic.

I don't believe in this "well you should win one every few years if you're a good QBlogic that Tom Brady has convinced people is normal.

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Maybe I'm wrong, but I just have a real hard time calling Rodgers and Manning, as great as they were, choke-artists. 

Packers as a team are definitely chokers.  But I can't think of a single game that left me thinking, "Rodgers cost them this one."  Games where he could have played better?  Hell yeah.  But I don't know.  A choke-artist to me is someone who consistently puts their team in a worse spot at the most critical moments of games.  Peyton had his moments and the label probably makes more sense for him than it does Rodgers, but I'd argue he was generally more underwhelming in the playoffs than he was a choker (if that makes sense).  Especially considering when Manning was around, it was him and Brady who you absolutely didn't want to leave any time on the clock for.  The same guy Belichick went for it on 4th and 2 on his own side of the field with the game essentially on the line to avoid giving him the ball back.  A guy that feared isn't a choker.

Edited by iknowcool
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Just now, Soggust said:

I know I'm in the vast minority here, but I still believe in the "get one super bowl and the monkey is off your back" logic.

I don't believe in this "well you should win one every few years if you're a good QBlogic that Tom Brady has convinced people is normal.

I agree with this.

For example, does Alexander Ovechkin have to win another Stanley Cup to sleep comfortably at night?

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Just now, biggie. said:

I agree with this.

For example, does Alexander Ovechkin have to win another Stanley Cup to sleep comfortably at night?

1, winning the Stanley Cup is arguably even harder than winning the Super Bowl, so no. 2, the numbers suggest that Ovechkin is a strong playoff performer. The Capitals as a whole choked for many years, but Ovechkin himself wasn't the problem. 

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31 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

1, winning the Stanley Cup is arguably even harder than winning the Super Bowl, so no. 2, the numbers suggest that Ovechkin is a strong playoff performer. The Capitals as a whole choked for many years, but Ovechkin himself wasn't the problem. 

Agreed, for most of the playoff years. He had some hiccups, but you're 100% correct in that he generally was never the problem. 

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1 hour ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Getting to the Super Bowl is really hard in itself; was Jim Kelly a choker? 

Hard to say. Going 0-4 in four straight Super Bowls and playing poorly in all of them is a bad look, but 3/4 were as underdogs against arguably the greatest team of all time (91 Redskins) and the Cowboys when they were a dynasty.

Edited by biggie.
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