49ers offseason 2022

[GW21]

1 hour ago, 9erFreak77 said:

Hope your doing well after your surgery…..damn

I appreciate it. It was scary when it happened, but it was over 8 years ago now, so I think I’m out of the woods with that one! 

[GW21]

Sorry, I feel like I hijacked this thread a bit, should we start talking about Marvel characters or something? 

[Chrissooner49er]

20 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

If one wants to question Deebo's injury history, then that is totally fair. Stayed healthy in years 1 and 3, but was hurt in year 2 and in college....The same applies to Bosa though...Damn near the same thing. So are we also against paying him 30-31M per year? Should we look to trade him? 

In a word: Nope. Sure, both have been injured, but that is where the similarity ends. Has Deebo been dynamite from his 1st season? Has he been a catalyst for us to get to the playoffs more than one year? No--and it isn't even close. Bosa had a great rookie year AND comeback year. Bosa has earned every damn penny he has received and more. 

Like @757-NINER said, WR and pass rusher are apples & oranges. Rushing the opposing QB has a greater impact than 1 WR--always and forever! There's a reason they get higher pay than most WRs. They impact the game more often. 

Really bad comparison, though I do apologize for the intensity! Bosa is my boy!!!!!!!!!!!

[J-ALL-DAY]

1 hour ago, Chrissooner49er said:

In a word: Nope. Sure, both have been injured, but that is where the similarity ends. Has Deebo been dynamite from his 1st season? Has he been a catalyst for us to get to the playoffs more than one year? No--and it isn't even close. Bosa had a great rookie year AND comeback year. Bosa has earned every damn penny he has received and more. 

Like @757-NINER said, WR and pass rusher are apples & oranges. Rushing the opposing QB has a greater impact than 1 WR--always and forever! There's a reason they get higher pay than most WRs. They impact the game more often. 

Really bad comparison, though I do apologize for the intensity! Bosa is my boy!!!!!!!!!!!

Deebo was absolutely a catalyst in his rookie season. What are we even doing now??

Never argued the positional value here or that we should not pay Bosa. 

[Chrissooner49er]

9 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Deebo was absolutely a catalyst in his rookie season. What are we even doing now??

Never argued the positional value here or that we should not pay Bosa. 

So 800+ yards receiving is the equivalent of 12+ sacks and countless pressures? I don't know what to say to that....

You're the one who started the comparison. The point is: it is Apples & Oranges. WR/RB cannot equate to the impact of DE. The only thing they have in common is having been injured. That is it. That is all. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

4 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

So 800+ yards receiving is the equivalent of 12+ sacks and countless pressures? I don't know what to say to that....

You're the one who started the comparison. The point is: it is Apples & Oranges. WR/RB cannot equate to the impact of DE. The only thing they have in common is having been injured. That is it. That is all. 

926 total yards in the last 11 games? Yeah, Deebo was definitely one of the catalyst leading us to the SB.

I started the comparison? Nah, I just exposed some of the flaws against Deebo that could be applied to Bosa but no one would bring them up with him. 

[Chrissooner49er]

18 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

926 total yards in the last 11 games? Yeah, Deebo was definitely one of the catalyst leading us to the SB.

I started the comparison? Nah, I just exposed some of the flaws against Deebo that could be applied to Bosa but no one would bring them up with him. 

Some? Nah. Just one: injury. Otherwise, there is no comparison. Deebo has had less impact overall. Period. It's the nature of the different positions. Sure, they both make outstanding plays, but Bosa impacts the game more often with greater value. Bosa>Deebo in overall value. 

[NinerNation21]

14 hours ago, GW21 said:

Sorry, I feel like I hijacked this thread a bit, should we start talking about Marvel characters or something? 

How about that Moon Knight guy, huh?

[Forge]

37 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

926 total yards in the last 11 games? Yeah, Deebo was definitely one of the catalyst leading us to the SB.

I started the comparison? Nah, I just exposed some of the flaws against Deebo that could be applied to Bosa but no one would bring them up with him. 

This really is a good call back for Deebo. If there are some worries about his production moving forward, that really should make someone feel  better (in a general sense) about the production keeping up 

[J-ALL-DAY]

41 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Some? Nah. Just one: injury. Otherwise, there is no comparison. Deebo has had less impact overall. Period. It's the nature of the different positions. Sure, they both make outstanding plays, but Bosa impacts the game more often with greater value. Bosa>Deebo in overall value. 

1. Similar injury history

2. Deebo is not irreplaceable, yet the defense was still top 6 without Bosa...So that means he is not irreplaceable either, correct?

3. Never argued against Bosa having more positional value or being paid. I want that man in a Niners uniform for the rest of his career! 

26 minutes ago, Forge said:

This really is a good call back for Deebo. If there are some worries about his production moving forward, that really should make someone feel  better (in a general sense) about the production keeping up 

Some people really just believe he only has one year of good production when that just isn't true. Folks forget that in the SB, some were thinking if an offensive player was going to get MVP, it should have been Deebo. He was that good and there was a lot of blowback on Shann for him not being able to get Deebo the ball in the 4th quarter. 

2020 was bad all around for Deebo but even then, he was on pace for a 1,000 receiving yards. There were quite a few games that we may have been able to win if he played. He was awesome in the Rams and Pats wins.

Only reason he did not end up with more receiving yards last season was because of Mitchell's injury and him having to play RB more. Obviously that led to another aspect of the offense being unlocked but there was a 3-4 game stretch where he was used mainly as a decoy in the receiving game and used primarily in the running game. I don't see why he can't have 1,200-1,300 receiving yards next season. 

In 2.5 games with Lance, he had 238 receiving yards and 3 TDs. While Aiyuk is most certainly going to see a bump in year 3 with Lance, I don't think Deebo's production is going to drop as much as some seem to believe. 

[GW21]

8 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

1. Similar injury history

2. Deebo is not irreplaceable, yet the defense was still top 6 without Bosa...So that means he is not irreplaceable either, correct?

3. Never argued against Bosa having more positional value or being paid. I want that man in a Niners uniform for the rest of his career! 

Some people really just believe he only has one year of good production when that just isn't true. Folks forget that in the SB, some were thinking if an offensive player was going to get MVP, it should have been Deebo. He was that good and there was a lot of blowback on Shann for him not being able to get Deebo the ball in the 4th quarter. 

2020 was bad all around for Deebo but even then, he was on pace for a 1,000 receiving yards. There were quite a few games that we may have been able to win if he played. He was awesome in the Rams and Pats wins.

Only reason he did not end up with more receiving yards last season was because of Mitchell's injury and him having to play RB more. Obviously that led to another aspect of the offense being unlocked but there was a 3-4 game stretch where he was used mainly as a decoy in the receiving game and used primarily in the running game. I don't see why he can't have 1,200-1,300 receiving yards next season. 

In 2.5 games with Lance, he had 238 receiving yards and 3 TDs. While Aiyuk is most certainly going to see a bump in year 3 with Lance, I don't think Deebo's production is going to drop as much as some seem to believe. 

I think it's just human nature to pit two people against one another. I think most here would agree that we want both of these guys back. I think this is honestly coming down to a "who would you rather keep if you could only keep one" type of discussion, which is fun, but not necessary. We should be able to keep both guys on this team for a long time.

If I had to pick one I'd keep Bosa, but I think that's more of a positional value thing for me and also Bosa being probably my favorite player on the team.

On a side note: How cool is it that we are having discussions about who we should sign long term and what they're worth instead of just talking about trying to draft someone to fill the place of a guy that busted? Things are really looking up for this team.  

[N4L]

I agree with Javi here

Honestly, it feels like we are getting ready to trade up more than once. With the depth we now have on the roster, trading up and coming out with only 4-5 guys is fine by me.

The saints had a draft like that a few years ago. Pretty sure they only had four selections but got four starters or something like that. 

A Jimmie Ward clone would be phenomenal. I dont like the idea of Jimmie hitting FA next year. Let's extend that man. 

 

I am just starting to turn my attention to the draft. Where is Daxton Till supposed to be drafted? I see a lot of honeybadger in his game and could play nickle for us in certain sets just like Jimmie. I love how he diagnoses plays in zone coverage. I love the way he blitzes off the edge, so fast to close on his targets once he has locked on. He could be used in so many different ways by DeMeco. Give DeMeco as many chess pieces as possible

Hes an immediate starting level player who wont necessarily be the centerpiece of a defense, which is why I am thinking we may have a legit shot for him to fall into the 50s? Seems like that is a sweet spot for us to trade up to. We wont need him to be a centerpiece for us so I think he would be phenomenal fit for us

I am not as sold on Hufanga as everyone else. He is a great depth piece, good special teamer, but I do not think he is fast enough in todays NFL to play S the way that we use our safeties. I think its very possible he will eventually play LB for us, or at least, play a joker type role in certain packages. He hasnt shown enough in coverage to project him into a starting role as anything other than a replacement level player in case of injury. So depending on Moore's status, we may want to add two safeties in the draft. 

Would also love to just sign the honey badger to a 2 year deal lol Jimmie Ward and the honey badger would be the best S duo in the league, without question 

[JIllg]

5 hours ago, N4L said:

I agree with Javi here

Honestly, it feels like we are getting ready to trade up more than once. With the depth we now have on the roster, trading up and coming out with only 4-5 guys is fine by me.

The saints had a draft like that a few years ago. Pretty sure they only had four selections but got four starters or something like that. 

A Jimmie Ward clone would be phenomenal. I dont like the idea of Jimmie hitting FA next year. Let's extend that man. 

 

I am just starting to turn my attention to the draft. Where is Daxton Till supposed to be drafted? I see a lot of honeybadger in his game and could play nickle for us in certain sets just like Jimmie. I love how he diagnoses plays in zone coverage. I love the way he blitzes off the edge, so fast to close on his targets once he has locked on. He could be used in so many different ways by DeMeco. Give DeMeco as many chess pieces as possible

Hes an immediate starting level player who wont necessarily be the centerpiece of a defense, which is why I am thinking we may have a legit shot for him to fall into the 50s? Seems like that is a sweet spot for us to trade up to. We wont need him to be a centerpiece for us so I think he would be phenomenal fit for us

I am not as sold on Hufanga as everyone else. He is a great depth piece, good special teamer, but I do not think he is fast enough in todays NFL to play S the way that we use our safeties. I think its very possible he will eventually play LB for us, or at least, play a joker type role in certain packages. He hasnt shown enough in coverage to project him into a starting role as anything other than a replacement level player in case of injury. So depending on Moore's status, we may want to add two safeties in the draft. 

Would also love to just sign the honey badger to a 2 year deal lol Jimmie Ward and the honey badger would be the best S duo in the league, without question 

Yeah, I’ve been more and more convinced safety is the pick as well. I think Brisker is just about the ideal player to replace Tartt. I’m starting to think that’s the pick for us and we might go get our guy if he falls. He’s a very good athlete, but he’s so assignment sound. He gets places in a hurry, but under control and in his gap. And I’ve seen him do everything. He blows up screens. He sets an edge. He chases down plays from the backside like a will when in a linebacker stack alignment. He’s an aware hook/curl defender and looks for work. He makes plays from two high. He didn’t high single free safety much, but I’ve seen him make the sideline breakup from centerfield once. I just think if you want someone to start immediately, he’s already a pro. He isn’t a perfect guy in coverage - you don’t want him taking many snaps manning up on slot receivers or in single high, but he can do it without being a liability so you can remain scheme versatile. For me, the other players aren’t really SS types in our scheme. Kerby Joseph is a very talented (if somewhat raw) player, but he’s a true FS. Nick Cross is hella talented and can really make plays in the box, but for me he’s a Jimmie Ward type. He can do those things, but his best fit is as a 2 high versatile FS. He got burned in coverage by double moves in college, but a lot of guys would. Cross just happened to be at Maryland where teams could run those sort of double moves and not get their qb killed waiting for them to develop. Bryan Cook is more of an old school Seattle 3 box safety. Didn’t see him comfortably man up slot wrs or drop into single high hardly at all and he didn’t even 2 high deep very often. He’s pretty stiff. Might have to be an NFL linebacker. Sterling Weatherford is kind of budget small school Kyle Hamilton. Very tall and long, can do a bit of everything. Is fluid enough in coverage. Markquese Bell is kind of the budget small school Brisker. Very sound run defender and superb tackler. Fluid enough to hang at the more difficult coverage responsibilities at his level of competition. After that, things get pretty darn bleak. I’m not sure I’m interested in anyone else even for depth given our current roster construction. We’re looking for a starter at SS right now; the depth options appear pretty decent and have plenty of ST value.

[StevenK]

I have an odd feeling we won’t extend Jimmy Ward. I think it was Grant Cohn (I know) who had someone on his podcast lately and they were discussing this off-season and it feels like we haven’t gone after any big name person because they are “older or on their last leg.” I feel like we want to get younger and not have to pay marquee players so much money because like Jay mentioned awhile ago, we have to depend on our draft picks and hope they pan out.
 

Now some of this can change depending on our Super Bowl window. If Kyle thinks Lance is ready after what he sees this year, next off-season I think we can/will make a splash ala Rams. 

[NinerNation21]

7 hours ago, N4L said:

I agree with Javi here

Honestly, it feels like we are getting ready to trade up more than once. With the depth we now have on the roster, trading up and coming out with only 4-5 guys is fine by me.

The saints had a draft like that a few years ago. Pretty sure they only had four selections but got four starters or something like that. 

A Jimmie Ward clone would be phenomenal. I dont like the idea of Jimmie hitting FA next year. Let's extend that man. 

 

I am just starting to turn my attention to the draft. Where is Daxton Till supposed to be drafted? I see a lot of honeybadger in his game and could play nickle for us in certain sets just like Jimmie. I love how he diagnoses plays in zone coverage. I love the way he blitzes off the edge, so fast to close on his targets once he has locked on. He could be used in so many different ways by DeMeco. Give DeMeco as many chess pieces as possible

Hes an immediate starting level player who wont necessarily be the centerpiece of a defense, which is why I am thinking we may have a legit shot for him to fall into the 50s? Seems like that is a sweet spot for us to trade up to. We wont need him to be a centerpiece for us so I think he would be phenomenal fit for us

I am not as sold on Hufanga as everyone else. He is a great depth piece, good special teamer, but I do not think he is fast enough in todays NFL to play S the way that we use our safeties. I think its very possible he will eventually play LB for us, or at least, play a joker type role in certain packages. He hasnt shown enough in coverage to project him into a starting role as anything other than a replacement level player in case of injury. So depending on Moore's status, we may want to add two safeties in the draft. 

Would also love to just sign the honey badger to a 2 year deal lol Jimmie Ward and the honey badger would be the best S duo in the league, without question 

I agree with this, to a certain extent. Yes, our depth and special teams should be better this year. But, the bungling of the Jimmy situation and subsequent hostage taking of our spending power kind of puts a damper on the off season for me so far. 

I love the C. Ward signing, but it would've been nice to also throw some serious cash at an impact EDGE rather than the by-committee approach we're taking now. Or, maybe being able to retain Tomlinson. 

By in large, this is a good and deep team but I'm seriously concerned about the right side of our OL and I'm not seeing many viable paths to suring it up other than seeing what we have and fixing it next year, if needed. 

Also, It's Daxton Hall and I think he's still slotted somewhere in the high second range.