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roi34

By roi34
in Las Vegas Raiders

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SBXISBXVSBXVIII

SBXISBXVSBXVIII

Posted
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19 minutes ago, Chali21 said:

I’d say so. He points out things other guys miss. For example I think it was Brian Baldinger tweeted about how the Raiders oline got overwhelmed by the Bills because Richard got tackled behind the LoS. Ted showed the wider coaches camera and pointed out Richard actually missed the hole. 

Thanks

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RaisinBran

RaisinBran

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10 hours ago, roi34 said:

I'm quoting you but I've seen it from a few people claiming lack of talent if why KNJ cant do alot. It's frankly b.s. I'm not saying week in and week out i expect a top 5 defense because there is a clear lack of big time playmakers on def. But when you keep running Nelson out there its not just from lack of talent. Lunai looked pretty good and has more to offer than nelson at this point. that's a coaching decision. We are banging up at corner no doubt but covering a wide open rb all year has been an issue. is that the players fault every single game? or is that a scheme and coaching issue. Other teams have the same talent level get are respectable on defense. We have Khalil Mack for crying out loud! KNJ excuses need to stop.. I've seen some better defense in the past with much less. 

 

We need a new coordinator period.

Well to be fair, in my quote i did acknowledge that KNJ is "terrible". I'm just saying we don't have much talent at LB, DT, CB, and FS. You're right Lunai (sp?) was very good in preseason and shows instinct, but is he even ready to take over a starting role? I'd really like to see our defense with Conley and Obi playing at full health. We don't have any type of pass rush either so that doesn't help. 

 

What's the problem, lack of pass rush? Or is it just that our guys sag off too much in coverage and give opposing QBs a quick outlet to avoid sacks? I agree the latter is definitely a scheme/coaching issue. The pass rush may be a combination of that and lack of talent outside of Mack. Edwards is pretty good, and Irvin is ok... but who's going to make some plays for our defense?

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riceman80

riceman80

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KNJ's gotta go. No doubt about that. I want Nic Rapone next year.

We're stuck with Downing and we flash at times so i'll reserve judgement till after the 2nd half of the season. But either way, a veteran position coach to help him out is something i'd like to see if he's brought back (likely will be).

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BackinBlack

BackinBlack

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my biggest thing with both our coordinators (KNJ moreso cause TD is a rookie), is that it seems they focus to much on worrying about our guys.. when i feel like the best teams scheme to stop the other team strengths or expose their weaknesses.  

On O, we should have a mismatch against every team we face. Seth and Patterson can beat a #3 or #4 CB. If a team has a weak slot CB, our O should revolve around taking advantage of that mismatch. It seems like TD maybe did that last week with Cook, so maybe he is learning. Obviously you play to your strengths as an O, but every week we should have a Key guy, who is the mismatch. I would also love to see the team go 4 wide, let them get into nickel or dime, go to hurry up with Patterson at RB more often. I think that could be very effective, and Patterson has broken a few runs from there already. 

On D, i know our secondary lacks talent, and Im sure KNJ is saying it is limiting his ability to call things how he wants. Nelson clearly has lost his speed, and cannot cover the deep ball, so we cant really run a single high look with him. While Sean Smith has been disappointing this year, I disagree with benching him.. he was always better than our young UDFAs, yes he lost his step but he can still cover bigger bodies. 

We play so far off the line, that our pass rush has no chance. Play 2 deep, and get our CBs closer to the line. Yes we will get beat over top, but we still are giving up big pass plays anyways. Hopefully Obi and Karl can do a much better job. If our CBs play closer, i bet we start getting more INTS, cause QBs wont always have a wide open check down. 

 

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holyghost

holyghost

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I know it's a popular argument to ask whether or not it's a player talent issue or a scheme issue, and it is a question we cannot really answer completely without inside knowledge of the team. However, Amerson, Smith and McDonald are the 121st, 120th, and 119th ranked CBs for PFF, out of 121 players. Not that I think PFF is perfect AT ALL, but when you have the worst 3 CBs in all of football at the same time, sorry to say but it absolutely MUST be a coaching issue. There's just no possible way their talent could be so poor that three of our core players at CB are definitively the worst 3 in all of football. Maybe it's scheme, it's definitely to some degree Norton, it could also be position coaching is completely awful. Who knows. But it is definitely coaching on the defensive side. Norton was LB coach on Seattle, probably carried heavily by better coaches and exceptional talent around him. There nothing whatsoever that says he is or ever was fit to be a top notch coordinator. And his history thus far has only supported that. 

Another point to be made: I know most of you guys won't want to hear this. But the reason we have utterly trash coaches more than likely falls under the idea that we do not pay coaches well. I'm sure McKenzie has a budget laid out when choosing a coach, hich did not include breaking the bank for anyone. If you want a prime HC and prime coordinators you have to pay them. Since when has Oakland paid top dollar for any coach? This team has always bargain shopped for coaches, and by and large ALWAYS gotten what they have paid for. Maybe this can change if we are flush with money from being in LV. But it's thoroughly unlikely to change any time soon. 

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Baggabonez

Baggabonez

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On 11/6/2017 at 3:33 PM, 808sinfour4time said:

I think we agree that something is wrong with both the offense and Derek’s execution.  But your use of the word “anymore” suggests that we also agree that Derek used to wait for plays to develop and his propensity to seemingly count to two and dump the ball off is a somewhat recent development.  He did the former and wasn’t always doing the latter for parts of 2015 and almost all of 2016. That Derek Carr happened!  We saw it!

So something’s changed and the “he’s just skittish” and “he’s afraid because of his brother” explanations don’t really work because of his career timeline.  Those were the knocks on him pre-draft and we’ve seen him not be those things in the NFL.  I’m not saying he’s perfect, but last year he did hang in the pocket and deliver strikes, and he did extend plays with his feet by leaving the pocket (and was amazingly elusive).  (I do agree that he could work on his movement within the pocket.)

So something is up and what’s the culprit?  Well, dispatching Musgrave and promoting Downing could be one.  And I really thought those two decisions were the main culprits until watching the game last night.  

There were parts of the game where it seemed as if Derek wasn’t so much unwilling to extend plays as he was just physically incapable of it, particularly by escaping the pocket and relying on his feet and elusiveness.  And why would that be?  I’m sure there is some fear of getting hit (but I think that’s mostly related to the potential consequences of being hit (further injury) rather than some weird dissipation of his “toughness”). 

And it just doesn't seem likely that Downing, who knows Carr's strengths include his mobility and his judiciousness in employing that mobility, would scheme offense in which Carr is turned into a quick-release statue in the pocket, unless it's out of some temporary necessity.

I think that while his back is healed enough to put him on the field, it isn’t healed enough to get the full Derek Carr experience yet.  He’s not just afraid of getting hit and re-injury, he’s literally still injured.  

I’m starting to think this is a more plausible explanation for the offense’s woes than that the entire organization completely failed in their assessments of Downing.  We did think Carr would be out six weeks and he was back in two.  That's great, but it does seem to increase the odds that we're not getting Derek at 100%. Here's a quick thought experiment relevant to our assessment of Downing: Do we think Sean McVay would look as good as he does if Goff had fractured his back in week 4 and come back in week 6? Especially if there had been a week-long consensus that Goff would be out until week 10?  I don't.  And I think that's true even though Goff probably isn't as important to the Rams' offense as Derek is to ours.

Of course, I could be completely wrong.  Admittedly it’s entirely possible Carr is in perfect health, and Downing really is an emperor without clothes.  But that just doesn’t seem like the simplest or most correct interpretation of events anymore.  At least not to me.

Personally, I think what happened to Carr is maturity. I don't want Carr extending plays (Manning never did). If fact I want Carr crumbling like a little girl when the edge rusher gets that occassional free release. In regards to the QB position, this tough guy cr@p of the 80s is overrated. Carr is too valuable an asset to the team long term. FINALLY, someone has gotten to Carr. Look around the league, Luck and Rodgers are play extenders; look at where they are. Marino and Manning had some of the quickest releases in NFL history and played a LONG time.Your best ability is availability.

Tice has done a wonderful job of pass pro with a plodding OL. I've said numerous times, Carr quick release not ONLY protects him, it makes his OL better and extends their careers and it will save the Raiders tons of money that would otherwise be invested in OTs a la Peyton Manning. 

The main problem that I see with the offense is predictability. Marshawn is miscast in the offense as a build up speed runner and he is the tell that the offense will prob run as he is of little threat as a receiver. Vs Miami I saw Marshawn extensively more involved in the offense as a receiver and the offense looked marginally better. This kind of speaks to the disconnect between the FO and coaching philosophy I have been speaking about. Adding Marshawn seems more like a PR move. The Raiders didn't add AP because he was an expensive build up runner that didn't like getting the ball flat footed from the shotgun and he needs a ton of carries to be effective. . . . .so you brought in Marshawn (although I love his infectious personality). Also, Cooper consistently struggles with hard inside slant routes. OCs are tempted to run it because Cooper is ALWAYS open on that route because CBs fear his over the top speed and play off but there have been numerous turnovers as the ball bounces of his shoulder pads. In the Miami game I saw more of an incorporation of the drag routes he excels at.

Imo, Musgrave got jettisoned because of offensive philosophical differences. I think JDR wants to play small ball (the way most defensive HCs want to play offensive) because it decreases the exposure of the defense ultimately making his job of running the defense easier. However, the offense ran exponentially better in a NHHU offense. A NHHU offense stresses defense regardless of talent or scheme. In think much of Musgrave's predictability was factor of getting the most out of overrated players (murray, walford, etc). Under Musgrave I didn't see a ton of hard inside slants to Cooper and he had significantly fewer drops. Put players in position to win and don't force things they aren't good at. Musgrave did that.

(Not my best writing as I'm all over the place. I can clarify as necessary)

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roi34

roi34

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sorry.. still believe Seth needs to go. dude is a net negative. turned game around single handedly. him and holton. his fumble was just awful. add another drop too. 

 

also my other guy.. Reggie nelson slow ... makes no plays. coaching staff continues to play them both so its on them too. bye

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