e16bball Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 1 hour ago, ripsean21 said: I think they are focused more on the part of the offseason that really shapes your team going forward in the draft. They upgraded QB and better QB play last year and we’re competing for a wildcard with a down year from multiple key players. I’m happy they are focused on the draft because they have to hit that. I do think we add a few FA after the draft and I think a lot of these FA are looking for that as well to maximize there value on more then likely a prove it deal at this point anyways. The Commanders isn’t exactly a attractive FA destination. So instead of overpaying I’m happy they are focusing on the part of the offseason that will have the biggest impact not only immediately but more importantly long term. I mean…we’ll see if they’re actually focused on the draft. It’s rather difficult to tell what their plan is at the moment, but it didn’t feel like “the draft is our top priority” when they were giving up all that stuff for Wentz. I guess they’re trying to safeguard the Scherff comp pick, so that’s something? The concern I have is that they’ve got 3 picks that can reasonably be expected/hoped to have any impact on the team. That’s not a lot of pulls at the slot machine. They have a significant number of positions that still need to be addressed. At least one WR, probably a RB and a TE, probably one more OT and one more OG, definitely at least one DT and probably a DE, a slot CB, definitely one more LB, etc. That’s 9 positions right there. Which is a problem if you’re going to sit out FA for the most part, because (best case scenario) you’re going to be in a position where you’re forced to pick based on need. So, for example, they absolutely have to add a LB who can start and a DT who can play. Gaping holes on the roster if they don’t. And if they don’t address these issues in FA, they’re going to have to do so in the draft. And early, at that. That removes the flexibility to go BPA and add the best talent. Much like last year, where apparently they were pretty much dead set on adding an LB and an OT in the first two rounds, in either order. The draft and FA have to be viewed as complementary processes. FA is your best mechanism for filling immediate holes, the draft is your best mechanism for adding the need long-term influx of talent. There’s no reason why they should be mutually exclusive — adding veteran players in FA doesn’t meaningfully reduce your ability to add young talent in the draft. If anything, it gives you more flexibility to draft the best guys on your board instead of feeling pigeonholed by need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 1 hour ago, e16bball said: I mean…we’ll see if they’re actually focused on the draft. It’s rather difficult to tell what their plan is at the moment, but it didn’t feel like “the draft is our top priority” when they were giving up all that stuff for Wentz. I guess they’re trying to safeguard the Scherff comp pick, so that’s something? The concern I have is that they’ve got 3 picks that can reasonably be expected/hoped to have any impact on the team. That’s not a lot of pulls at the slot machine. They have a significant number of positions that still need to be addressed. At least one WR, probably a RB and a TE, probably one more OT and one more OG, definitely at least one DT and probably a DE, a slot CB, definitely one more LB, etc. That’s 9 positions right there. Which is a problem if you’re going to sit out FA for the most part, because (best case scenario) you’re going to be in a position where you’re forced to pick based on need. So, for example, they absolutely have to add a LB who can start and a DT who can play. Gaping holes on the roster if they don’t. And if they don’t address these issues in FA, they’re going to have to do so in the draft. And early, at that. That removes the flexibility to go BPA and add the best talent. Much like last year, where apparently they were pretty much dead set on adding an LB and an OT in the first two rounds, in either order. The draft and FA have to be viewed as complementary processes. FA is your best mechanism for filling immediate holes, the draft is your best mechanism for adding the need long-term influx of talent. There’s no reason why they should be mutually exclusive — adding veteran players in FA doesn’t meaningfully reduce your ability to add young talent in the draft. If anything, it gives you more flexibility to draft the best guys on your board instead of feeling pigeonholed by need. I agree and I think that’s where the process of the draft allows them to redetermine what holes are left and plug them with a guy on a prove it type deal after the draft since the first wave came and went. Also while they did surrender picks for Wentz they if a QB is taken and shows they are ready can be recouped next offseason if that’s what they feel is best. As we know the cost generally for any QB is usually starting at a 1 in decent memory. Especially at his age. I still have concerns or questions and do agree we need FA to compliment and safeguard the draft. But the comp picks are valuable. And so far we’ve made no moves effecting that to my knowledge. Not that that helps this year but I actually thought we were going to do much worse and go heavy in FA and I think currently we have shown by not being mentioned for but two bigger names they didn’t get the guys they identified as fits for impact and future vision to build around so they are onto the draft then filling out the remainder after they identify holes post draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troublez Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 I am not sure why it is a forgone conclusion that we are not actively participating in Free Agency. I would wager - that if you collected all contracts awarded the last 10 years, during week 1 of FA - the majority are busts. I am ecstatic with our approach, it shows forethought and discipline. Also, there is a TON yes a TON of quality players that remained unsigned. See below: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-100-best-available-2022-free-agents 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Troublez said: I am not sure why it is a forgone conclusion that we are not actively participating in Free Agency. I would wager - that if you collected all contracts awarded the last 10 years, during week 1 of FA - the majority are busts. I am ecstatic with our approach, it shows forethought and discipline. Also, there is a TON yes a TON of quality players that remained unsigned. See below: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-100-best-available-2022-free-agents I mean, what on that list is quality? There’s hardly anyone under 29 left and the only MLB is most likely not signing here. If you’re ecstatic with this approach I’m happy for you but I don’t see where this team has truly improved and there’s holes all over the place. Wentz is a total wildcard as well. We genuinely have no idea what we’re getting there. I mean, the only guy they signed was a former Carolina Panther which is par for the course. I would understand this approach if we had significant draft capital but we don’t even have that. I don’t understand how anyone could look at this off-season, see the loss of both starting guards, both of our best depth DT, still have literally nothing at ILB while also letting our best TE beyond Logan Thomas just walk away and think they’re doing a great job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTMONK HOF Posted March 22, 2022 Author Share Posted March 22, 2022 Why is Bobby Wagner still on the market? All the analysts on TV said he would be a great pick up. Majority of this forum want him. I guess his age and the money he’s looking for is preventing anyone to dive right in and sign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovfd55 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 35 minutes ago, ARTMONK HOF said: Why is Bobby Wagner still on the market? All the analysts on TV said he would be a great pick up. Majority of this forum want him. I guess his age and the money he’s looking for is preventing anyone to dive right in and sign him. Everything I hear is about him wanting to stay on West Coast,but most them teams aren't in a good Cap spot at moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTMONK HOF Posted March 22, 2022 Author Share Posted March 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, ovfd55 said: Everything I hear is about him wanting to stay on West Coast,but most them teams aren't in a good Cap spot at moment. Cash in on probably his last contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troublez Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 2 hours ago, lavar703 said: I mean, what on that list is quality? There’s hardly anyone under 29 left and the only MLB is most likely not signing here. If you’re ecstatic with this approach I’m happy for you but I don’t see where this team has truly improved and there’s holes all over the place. Wentz is a total wildcard as well. We genuinely have no idea what we’re getting there. I mean, the only guy they signed was a former Carolina Panther which is par for the course. I would understand this approach if we had significant draft capital but we don’t even have that. I don’t understand how anyone could look at this off-season, see the loss of both starting guards, both of our best depth DT, still have literally nothing at ILB while also letting our best TE beyond Logan Thomas just walk away and think they’re doing a great job? Because an upgrade at QB trumps all of that... and they are not done in FA. You can rent guys for 2 years as depth, that is how FA should work. Most advanced analytics suggest we have IMPROVED DRAMATICALLY. You know why? Because we haven't lost much....our DLINE underperformed as a whole last year. I agree that Settle and Matty I were valuable players, but their production is easily replaced. This approach is more my style than adding big money FA's. Lets grow our own - cultivate a team atmosphere and win. Homegrown and youthful players via draft will always buy into a program easier than a big ticket signing. Lock up Terry and Daron... call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 2 hours ago, lavar703 said: I mean, what on that list is quality? There’s hardly anyone under 29 left and the only MLB is most likely not signing here. If you’re ecstatic with this approach I’m happy for you but I don’t see where this team has truly improved and there’s holes all over the place. Wentz is a total wildcard as well. We genuinely have no idea what we’re getting there. I mean, the only guy they signed was a former Carolina Panther which is par for the course. I would understand this approach if we had significant draft capital but we don’t even have that. maybe I’m ignoring the age thing and you’re not, but there’s plenty on that list for good depth outside of just ILB 2 hours ago, lavar703 said: I don’t understand how anyone could look at this off-season, see the loss of both starting guards, we replaced one. 2 hours ago, lavar703 said: both of our best depth DT, still have literally nothing at ILB while also letting our best TE beyond Logan Thomas just walk away and think they’re doing a great job? We’re propping RSJ up now? That’s an interesting thought. He’s a JAG on his 5th team in as many years and can be replaced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: maybe I’m ignoring the age thing and you’re not, but there’s plenty on that list for good depth outside of just ILB we replaced one. We’re propping RSJ up now? That’s an interesting thought. He’s a JAG on his 5th team in as many years and can be replaced Logan Thomas may not be ready at the start of the season and it would’ve been nice to have RSJ and Jon Bates as opposed to the guy we kept on the roster who can’t play football. And we replaced our starting guards with a guy who was pretty bad in Jacksonville. He was good at one time but that doesn’t mean it will translate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 34 minutes ago, Troublez said: Because an upgrade at QB trumps all of that... and they are not done in FA. You can rent guys for 2 years as depth, that is how FA should work. Most advanced analytics suggest we have IMPROVED DRAMATICALLY. You know why? Because we haven't lost much....our DLINE underperformed as a whole last year. I agree that Settle and Matty I were valuable players, but their production is easily replaced. This approach is more my style than adding big money FA's. Lets grow our own - cultivate a team atmosphere and win. Homegrown and youthful players via draft will always buy into a program easier than a big ticket signing. Lock up Terry and Daron... call it a day. Your approach is great, I enjoy that approach as well. However, when you’ve dealt away draft choices and have only left yourself with 5 you can’t just let your depth walk out the door and then not supplement it with other value free agents. You don’t have to go spend-crazy but you can dip your toes in free agency. As far as Terry and Daron go, every passing day they don’t lock McLaurin up he gets more expensive. Each new deal for an absurd amount of money pushes his contract higher. I’m not sure you can allocate funds to another high priced interior DL. This is why cutting Ioannidis and not even bothering to offer Settle a deal looks so stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 I'm with Lavar on what we've done. I'm very disappointed in how we've had handled free agency. I like the Wentz trade. Don't like that we just called it a day, after the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 It’s cute that you guys actually expected a bunch of FA moves. I detailed when we first hired Rivera that he does not make big free agency moves. He will usually retain his own players, and sign guys to 1-2 year “prove it” deals and stays out of free agency. His two biggest FA additions in Carolina were Matt Kalil (five years, $55 million and cut after two years) and Matt Paradis (three years, $27 million). So last year was the off-season where he spent the most money. He got burned by the big contracts given to William Jackson and Curtis Samuel. I’d argue that Jackson’s play is influenced as much by us playing him in a scheme that doesn’t fit him as it is on him, but bottom line is that splurging in FA didn’t work for Rivera. Sitting out the frenzy pretty much indicates what they are- and are not- going to do Expect more reclamation contracts like Ronald Darby (injuries) and Charles Leno (post-draft cap casualty), who need to prove it for their next contract. Also, expect similar deals to Logan Thomas (potential), JD McKissec (specific skill set) and Cornelius Lucas (swing depth) who sign two year contracts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 11 hours ago, lavar703 said: Logan Thomas may not be ready at the start of the season and it would’ve been nice to have RSJ and Jon Bates as opposed to the guy we kept on the roster who can’t play football. And we replaced our starting guards with a guy who was pretty bad in Jacksonville. He was good at one time but that doesn’t mean it will translate. Andrew Norwell is an on par replacement to Flowers. He wasn't worth the contract he had, sure, but look at the deal we just signed him at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 22 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: Andrew Norwell is an on par replacement to Flowers. He wasn't worth the contract he had, sure, but look at the deal we just signed him at. According to PFF he’s not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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