SaveOurSonics Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 3 hours ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: I honestly believe Jamal Adams is what destroyed the Seahawks and made Russell Wilson want out of Seattle. Because before the trade to Denver? He realized with Jamal Adams massive $72 million contract (making him the highest paid Safety in NFL history) along with having awful draft capital? Russell Wilson knew he had a 0% chance to win. A box Safety destroyed their entire Franchise. This is so delusional. If you think any single event was the downfall here, you're wrong. This feud between Russ and the FO has been compounding for several years now. To somehow put the blame squarely on Jamal or credit the Jets for the downfall we see today is such a narrow-sighted perspective. This is the culmination of several bad trades, several bad draft picks, and several instances of internal disagreements. It's really weird to me how fascinated Jets fans are with a really good trade they made despite still being a bottom 5 team and needing to bring it up multiple times in a thread that is very loosely, if at all, connected to Jamal Adams and the Jets. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWinsChampionships Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said: Jets fans really need to find a new hobby outside of dumping on the Seahawks every chance they get just because we did y'all the favor of taking Jamal Adams lol. So much chest thumping for a team stuck in the basement of the league. It's going to be hilarious when Seattle finds their franchise QB and is back in playoff contention before the Jets. I'm not dumping on Seattle more so praising our newer GM. And don't be so confident about the bold. I'm familiar with the history of your Seahawks Franchise my uncle Dean Wells once played with Seattle for 6 years during the 1990s and he never once experienced a winning season there. Seattle Seahawks since 1974 of 47 Years ago (before Russell Wilson)... • 0 SB Titles. • Only 1 SB appearance in 2005 (Matt Hasselbeck played bad and lost 21-10 vs. Pittsburgh). Matt Hasselbeck and then Dave Krieg are probably considered Seattle's 2nd and 3rd best QBs despite Dave Krieg spending 12 years in Seattle with only 2 Pro Bowls. Outside of Joe Namath our QB history is no better than yours but it's not easy lucking into an elite Franchise QB man just ask these GB Packers fans throughout 1968 up until 2006 once Brett Favre finally won them another SB or KC Chiefs fans before Mahomes (last SB was 1969-1970 season) and/or N.E Patriots before Tom Brady (0 SBs). I wish your team the best of luck and hope you guys have a fast turnaround because Football is fun for the league when Seattle is competitive especially come postseason play (your Seattle 12th man = true home field advantage) and I often wish my own NY fan base would rock the stadium with noise like you guys do. PS: I don't think Russell Wilson is going to have too much success in Denver because of Patrick Mahomes and up and coming Justin Herbert + Wilson might not be 40 but he is 33 and even if he does have 4-5 years of top notch play left in the tank I believe it's safe to say that your Seattle fan base has already seen the very best of Russell Wilson and Denver's fan base could end up seeing the complete opposite (due to mobile QBs never lasting as long as pure pocket passing QBs). I think this QB draft class is being underrated. Go and get Kenny Pickett from Pittsburgh. He's a winner who turned Pittsburgh football around and put up awesome Statistical Production despite ugly weather conditions within that atrocious stadium (rain, snow, freezing cold and nasty winds). Edited March 9, 2022 by DefenseWinsChampionships Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaveOurSonics Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 15 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Fair, but if they released Wagner, and have Lockett on the trade block, seems far more likely the FO is looking at this in the former rather than the latter category, no? Bobby Wagner was due $20m this season, which would've been an unacceptable amount to pay a declining MLB no matter what state the rest of the team was in. We backloaded his contract and knew that it would ultimately be up to him and his willingness to renegotiate an extension. I think it's fair to say that -- especially after opting to move Russ -- Bobby communicated his preference to hit the open market. For all we know, Seattle intends on bringing him back at a lower salary. I doubt that, because we spent a 1st round pick on Jordyn Brooks to be Bobby's heir apparent. We can now redistribute that money to retain someone like Diggs or go out and add a prominent piece or two (like Terron Armstead or JC Jackson, both of who would have a greater impact on this team than a run-stuffing MLB). Bobby is still exceptional against the run, but at this stage of his career, he's a glorified Denzel Perryman. As for Lockett, doesn't it make sense to entertain offers for him? I think the team is well aware that his value was directly tied to his fit with Russell Wilson. That's not to say that he's suddenly mediocre, but it's fair to say he's not worth the contract we gave him now. At least not to us. They just drafted Dee Eskridge in the 2nd round to grow into the #2 role and added a TE in Noah Fant who I have to assume they're pretty high on as a receiving threat. I think what we're seeing now is the FO realizing the financial burden that Jamal Adams has placed on them and they're doing their best to redistribute some of the team's finances to make this a very quick rebuild project. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaveOurSonics Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: I'm familiar with the history of your Seahawks Franchise my uncle Dean Wells once played with Seattle for 6 years during the 1990s and he never once experienced a winning season there. Seattle Seahawks since 1974 of 47 Years ago (before Russell Wilson)... • 0 SB Titles. • Only 1 SB appearance in 2005 (Matt Hasselbeck played bad and lost 21-10 vs. Pittsburgh). Not that I'm particularly in the mood to defend either one of these guys, but that timeline also conveniently pre-dates our GM and Head Coach that are tied to the team's last decade of success. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said: Bobby Wagner was due $20m this season, which would've been an unacceptable amount to pay a declining MLB no matter what state the rest of the team was in. We backloaded his contract and knew that it would ultimately be up to him and his willingness to renegotiate an extension. I think it's fair to say that -- especially after opting to move Russ -- Bobby communicated his preference to hit the open market. For all we know, Seattle intends on bringing him back at a lower salary. I doubt that, because we spent a 1st round pick on Jordyn Brooks to be Bobby's heir apparent. We can now redistribute that money to retain someone like Diggs or go out and add a prominent piece or two (like Terron Armstead or JC Jackson, both of who would have a greater impact on this team than a run-stuffing MLB). Bobby is still exceptional against the run, but at this stage of his career, he's a glorified Denzel Perryman. As for Lockett, doesn't it make sense to entertain offers for him? I think the team is well aware that his value was directly tied to his fit with Russell Wilson. That's not to say that he's suddenly mediocre, but it's fair to say he's not worth the contract we gave him now. At least not to us. They just drafted Dee Eskridge in the 2nd round to grow into the #2 role and added a TE in Noah Fant who I have to assume they're pretty high on as a receiving threat. I think what we're seeing now is the FO realizing the financial burden that Jamal Adams has placed on them and they're doing their best to redistribute some of the team's finances to make this a very quick rebuild project. I say this with nothing but respect for what Carroll/GM John Scheider have done for SEA - but if they are trading Wilson away, they're better off to embrace the full rebuild, until they find their QB again. If they find him, great. But as a team that didn't do that from 2017-2020 when it was clear we had no realistic shot to contend, nothing extends misery by mediocrity than by trying to play it both ways. Doesn't mean they try to lose games deliberately, but focus on youth. Don't spend a penny on any stopgaps, unless there's some future growth potential. None of which necessarily changes the equation we're discussing - if they are going for a quicker rebuild, then sure, DEN's package can be argued as better. If they are embracing the full rebuild, though, give me the 3rd 1st in 2023. Edited March 9, 2022 by Broncofan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animaltested Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 What's wild is a trade that netted an extra first from Denver (2010; Okung and Earl) was what set up the foundation for Seattle's decade long run. Maybe.... lightning strikes twice in 2023? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Carroll has to at least be considering a Sean Peyton exit, someway somehow right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaveOurSonics Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 19 minutes ago, Broncofan said: I say this with nothing but respect for what Carroll/GM John Scheider have done for SEA - but if they are trading Wilson away, they're better off to embrace the full rebuild, until they find their QB again. If they find him, great. But as a team that didn't do that from 2017-2020 when it was clear we had no realistic shot to contend, nothing extends misery by mediocrity than by trying to play it both ways. Doesn't mean they try to lose games deliberately, but focus on youth. Don't spend a penny on any stopgaps, unless there's some future growth potential. None of which necessarily changes the equation we're discussing - if they are going for a quicker rebuild, then sure, DEN's package can be argued as better. If they are embracing the full rebuild, though, give me the 3rd 1st in 2023. If they land Deshaun Watson (from what I can tell, it's probably them vs Carolina at this point in time), are they not immediately SB contenders in a watered down NFC? Or at the very least a few good players that can be obtained via FA and the surplus of draft picks away from being legitimate? Legal issues aside, I'll take Watson over Russell, the 7 years of youth he has on his side, and the arguably cheaper trade package it will take to acquire him. IF that happens, this offseason suddenly looks like a net-positive for Seattle. If they can't land Watson or a QB they love through the draft, I'd agree with you that a longer term rebuild is the suitable path. I just have a hard time believing Pete Carroll will be complacent enough to accept that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said: If they land Deshaun Watson (from what I can tell, it's probably them vs Carolina at this point in time), are they not immediately SB contenders in a watered down NFC? Or at the very least a few good players that can be obtained via FA and the surplus of draft picks away from being legitimate? Legal issues aside, I'll take Watson over Russell, the 7 years of youth he has on his side, and the arguably cheaper trade package it will take to acquire him. IF that happens, this offseason suddenly looks like a net-positive for Seattle. If they can't land Watson or a QB they love through the draft, I'd agree with you that a longer term rebuild is the suitable path. I just have a hard time believing Pete Carroll will be complacent enough to accept that. If SEA gets Watson, sure, no argument. Watson's an elite QB IMO who's way younger. However, I also think that CAR, & if Watson is willing to go there, PHI, both of them have SEA beat. If they don't get Watson....blow it ALL up. My concern for SEA - they're doing this because they're going Rd1 rookie. Which is OK - but then, stick to going rebuild (keep Metcalf, sign Penny short-term, and focus on the OL to protect the kid)...but do NOT think you're winning in 2022. Think long-term, and if he's the answer, great, quicker return. Until you know he is....rebuild, rebuild, rebuild. Edited March 9, 2022 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaisinBran Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Great trade for both teams IMO. Although I hate how difficult it's going to be for the Raiders now it was bad enough dealing with Herbert and Mahomes twice a year each lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaveOurSonics Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, Broncofan said: If they don't get Watson....blow it ALL up. My concern for SEA - they're doing this because they're going Rd1 rookie. Which is OK - but then, stick to going rebuild (keep Metcalf, sign Penny short-term, and focus on the OL to protect the kid)...but do NOT think you're winning in 2022. Think long-term, and if he's the answer, great, quicker return. Until you know he is....rebuild, rebuild, rebuild. I think it's fair to say they can accomplish both IF they hit on a QB at #9. That's what it all comes down to. Like you said, keep Metcalf, sign Penny, bring in someone like Terron Armstead or Brandon Scherff, and suddenly this is a really attractive spot for a rookie QB to develop. Frankly, I'm not arguing what they should do. I'm arguing what's likely to happen considering where Pete is at in his career, for better or worse. I'll be very surprised if Seattle enters the 2022 season without their QB of the future on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Seattle 'bout to be real bad. I get that there was some friction with Wilson, and he is getting a bit older...but eeesh. This feels like the sort of thing that's going to really expose the rest of that team, and Carroll's coaching. Kinda curious if Pete and/or the rest of the Front Office has some sort of assurances from ownership that they'll be given extra leash to coach through a "rebuild". Otherwise...pretty much a lock for the bottom of the NFC West, and probably an absolutely dismal record overall. Wilson seemed like pretty much the only thing that gave that team a chance to win anything at all, and even when healthy, that wasn't even really enough. Just seems like for Carroll and the Front Office as a whole really, that would've been worth trying to patch up the relationship and find a way to make it work. Over basically blowing up the franchise. Not that many people tend to survive that sort of franchise QB turnover, unless they immediately hit on a new guy. I guess things can get pretty goofy and self-destructive with egos get involved like that. Makes it tough for Pete to bow out gracefully on his own terms now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Broncofan said: If SEA gets Watson, sure, no argument. Watson's an elite QB IMO who's way younger. However, I also think that CAR, & if Watson is willing to go there, PHI, both of them have SEA beat. If they don't get Watson....blow it ALL up. My concern for SEA - they're doing this because they're going Rd1 rookie. Which is OK - but then, stick to going rebuild (keep Metcalf, sign Penny short-term, and focus on the OL to protect the kid)...but do NOT think you're winning in 2022. Think long-term, and if he's the answer, great, quicker return. Until you know he is....rebuild, rebuild, rebuild. Why not just continue to blow it up all now? They already got rid of their last two cornerstone players. I don't see why the front brass wants to keep around 70 year old Pete Carroll to spearhead from ground zero. If the Seahawks are going to trade assets for Watson in addition to all of that drama...as good as he is, Pete would probably have him doing the same thing he did with Wilson handing the ball off a boatload per game. And he has that mega contract. Even if the Seahawks don't like any quarterbacks in this upcoming class, they can try using all of those picks to orchestrate a youth movement, and rebuild with cheap rookie deals. Again, not sure why you'd want Carroll do be the maestro there if so, but...yeah getting Watson seems weird to me. Might as well have kept Wilson, unless homeslice really wanted to bounce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viking Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Seahawks won this trade - going into a rebuild with or without Russ so get what you can for him. Wilson hasn't been a good QB for 1.5 seasons even with a great WR pairing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbrog24 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 52 minutes ago, viking said: Seahawks won this trade - going into a rebuild with or without Russ so get what you can for him. Wilson hasn't been a good QB for 1.5 seasons even with a great WR pairing. Hasn't been even "good?" You're funny man 😄. There aren't any numbers that would back you up on that, at least that I'm aware of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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