Nick Foles to be released

[Soko]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:04 AM, SkippyX said:

You nailed the never part except for about 32 games including all of 2013, 2016, and 2017. Thanks for providing an example for what I referenced before.

If 117+ rating season, 7 TD game, incredible NFCCG dominance, and SB MVP over a 500+ yard Brady is not elite then nothing is elite.

Whatever his rating was for those last 2 playoff games in that SB run it could have been 140+ He hits Torrey Smith perfectly deep in blanket coverage then has a sideline strike to a TE on the next play on the first drive in the NFCCG. Smith dropped the ball and the TE epic fails a sideline step out of bounds. The same thing is true in the SB where his interception hit Jefferey in the chest but Gilmore was guilty of uncalled PI.

If PFF ratings or QBR numbers exist for those games they will be incredible.

You can easily watch every throw for those games to see how pathetic your cold take really is.

Foles has as many elite playoff runs as Steve Young and 1 more than Rodgers since his NFCCG in 2010 was crap. He also has 1 more than Peyton Manning.

Take a look at the all time playoff passer rating list. If the elite cutoff is before Foles it’s a really short list. That’s a 6 game sample, not one year.

Never is the favorite word of the ignorant.

You need more than a 16 sample size over the course of a 10 year career to be considered an elite player. 

Foles had his moments, certainly more so than most backups, but no one ever considered him an elite player, up there with Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Peyton (for 2013). Not after 2013. Not after the SB run. Not the following year after Wentz went down. 

[Ty21]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

The nick isn’t big enough 

[NYRaider]

32 minutes ago, Ty21 said:

The nick isn’t big enough 

Should be Godzilla sized, tbh.

[SkippyX]

9 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

You need more than a 16 sample size over the course of a 10 year career to be considered an elite player. 

Foles had his moments, certainly more so than most backups, but no one ever considered him an elite player, up there with Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Peyton (for 2013). Not after 2013. Not after the SB run. Not the following year after Wentz went down. 

They said "NEVER ELITE", not "He was not Elite over a 10 year period."

Its a cold take.

 

Jim Kelly is in the HoF. He was Elite for 1990 and 1991.  That's about 25 games out of 35 that were elite (counting playoffs 2 of 6) End of story besides a few games here or there. He was amazing vs SF in 1992, I will give him that game for sure.

Look at the numbers before during and after that period. 82.7 rating from 86-89 / 99.1 rating for 90-91 / 80.3 rating from 92-96

He held that peak for 2 whole years on a loaded team of HoF and pro bowl players.

2 HoF WRs, HoF RB, stud O-line - Dude was a 20 TD and 28 pick playoff QB. Is that Elite?

Foles had Riley Cooper, Rookie Ertz, Shady McCoy, and DeSean Jackson. Then he had Torrey Smith, Alshon Jeffery, Ertz, and LG.

Its not exactly Thurman Thomas, James Lofton, and Andre Reed.

No QB is held to the high standard of great or suck like Foles. He's there in the middle with lots of guys. Its just that his 2 peaks eclipse most besides the greats.

 

Everyone throws out his 30+ good games, finds 15 bad games and says ah ha! I have found the truth!

 

*Note: Of course this does not mean Foles is better than Kelly. Its just pointing out that everything Kelly did is given a boost and looked at with reverence. Everything Foles did was either fluke or luck or bad play because he sucks because you said so.

Edited May 9, 2022 by SkippyX

[Soko]

33 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

They said "NEVER ELITE", not "He was not Elite over a 10 year period."

Its a cold take.

It’s not. Absolutely no one was ever calling Nick Foles an elite quarterback. In the realm of Brady/Rodgers/Brees? Never. Elite means top tier. If Foles was never in conversation for that top tier (spoiler alert: he wasn’t) then he was never an elite QB. 

Did he have a couple stretches where he was playing as well as pretty much anyone? Sure, but that’s not what being an elite player means. That’s actually the definition of flash in the pan. 

Quote

*Note: Of course this does not mean Foles is better than Kelly. Its just pointing out that everything Kelly did is given a boost and looked at with reverence. Everything Foles did was either fluke or luck or bad play because he sucks because you said so.

Seems like an odd, cherry-picked name to bring up. Was Brandon Lloyd an elite receiver? Was Braylon Edwards? How many NFL players looked great for a handful of games and then never lived up to that? Were they all elite players? 

I don’t know what your last sentence is supposed to mean other than defensive blabber. I never said Foles sucks, he’s a solid backup to have. 

[Ty21]

7 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Was Brandon Lloyd an elite receiver?

He was absolutely elite at circus catches but if you wanted him to catch a routine slant or simple catch and run, you’d have had better luck signing my grandma 

[SkippyX]

Foles has played in 13 must win games as an Eagle. (playoffs or needed for playoffs or homefield)

He is 11-2 in those games.

• 2-0 to end 2013 for the division. (including week 17 for the East vs Dallas) and 0-1 vs the Saints in the playoffs.  (take a look at the Riley Cooper drop)
• 2-0 to wrap up homefield in 2017 and 3-0 in the playoffs.
• 3-0 in 2018 to take a 6-7 team to 9-7 and a wildcard and then 1-1 in the playoffs 

The 2 losses were to the Saints.

• He left the field with the lead in the 2013 playoffs.
• He had them at the red zone with 2 minutes to play going for the lead when Jefferey skipped the ball off his hands.

His rating in those 13 games

• 131.7 50 burger in Chicago on a Bears team fighting for the playoffs.
• 121.4 NFC East deciding Cowboys game
• 105.0  (with Cooper dropping a 40-65 yard TD catch wide open crosser)
• 115.8  (4 TD game vs NY in his first start of 2017)
• 59.8  (bad weather Christmas night game in Philly vs Carr and Oakland, Carr was a 48.1) 
• 100.1 (bad weather Philly playoff game (he did have a possible pick bounce of a Falcon's knee) Matt Ryan had an 86.6))
• 141.4 NFCCG (could have been 150+ without a few drops)
• 106.1 (played better than that and also caught a SB TD pass)
• 89.4 (first start since week 2. it was in LA vs the 11-2 heading to the SB Rams)
• 120.4 (471 yards passing vs Houston including an assassination attempt by Clowney)
• 102.1 (crushed the Redskins to clinch the playoffs after the bears knocked out Minnesota)
• 77.1  (rough day in bad weather against a great D but he had the 4th down GWD TD) (Trubisky was good that day (89.6 and a nice late drive) but double doink)
• 61.4 (Alshon's interception counts for Foles rating and the 2nd TD was a Foles run) - Foles had the biggest regret throw in his career in this game. He had Ertz open deep to go up 21-0 and he did not put enough air on it and Lattimore made an incredible leaping play on the ball on a recovery play.

That close Saints game pivoted on 4 plays.

• Foles missed that throw
• Brees fumbled in his own red zone and the Eagles (Graham maybe?) had the ball but lost it back to the Saints.
• Pro Bowl G Brandon Brooks popped his Achilles and the Eagles run game disappeared
• Jefferey handed the ball to Lattimore in the Saints red zone with 2 minutes to play.

That's 100+ in 9 of the 13 biggest games of his career.

He had 25 TDs to 8 picks in those 13 games. 2 of those 8 picks actually bounced off of Alshon Jefferey.

[Nabbs4u]

All though you're spitting knowledge 😎👍

Skippy is to Foles

What 

Matt's is to Dak

[SkippyX]

2012 The Eagles fall apart to the point that Reid will get fired. Vick gets hurt and they throw rookie Foles into the fire.

He has some struggles, shows some good things, and absolutely shines in the Tampa game.

This could be bad if you had no clue.

 

2013 Foles took over for a 1-3 Eagles team when Vick got injured at halftime.

He finished up that win going 16-25 for 197 and 2 TDs in the 2nd half. He then went 8-2 in 10 starts and led the league in passer rating.

He was great in the playoffs and he left the field with the lead even though Cooper dropped a huge play.

Elite QB play from start to finish for 12 games (he was bad while playing with a concussion vs Dallas (he sat out the next game vs NY and Vick/Barkley were terrible)

 

2014 was not a good stats year for Foles (like a 2 pick game in a 27-0 laugher in NY, how tragic for your fantasy team)

• He went 6-2 in 7 1/2 games (Sanchez finished the win vs Houston after collarbone 1)
  • Watch highlights of the DC game that year. Foles was murdered on a cheap shot and he just got up and kept playing and won the game.
• Sanchez looked better for fantasy stats (had a really good Dallas game) but he went 4-4 and they missed the playoffs at 10-6
• A 6-2 record and 13-10 TD to INT is a criminal act to some people. Jim Kelly goes to the pro bowl at 6-6 and 19-11
• Chip Kelly gambled that all the wins were him instead of Foles... how'd that work out?
• Elite record, toughness, and leadership from the QB position but not elite stats.  Your call.

 

2015 Slappy Fisher and the Middle Finger Moving Company Rams vs 8 playoff teams in 11 games

You are cordially invited to get a clue.

 

2016 10-4 KC needed Foles for 2 games and he won both games.

• Smith got hurt vs Indy and Foles went off 16 for 22 for 223 yards and 2 TDs for a 135.2 rating.
  • (Smith actually came back to run the 2 minute drill before halftime and had a TD pass)
• The next week he was just OK (86.3) but KC settled for a TD pass and 4 FGs and held on to beat Jacksonville.
• 100+ rating for KC in 2016
• 2-0 when he plays with a 100+ rating is elite

 

2017 12-2 Philly goes 5-0 with Foles and wins a Super Bowl. (Are you looking at the preseason game in week 17? Yeah, I'm at the parade)

• This is Elite like Doug Williams or Jeff Hostler but more games that Williams and better play than Hos. Its Elite like Flacco 2012.
• He beat the best player in the history of the NFL when he threw for 500+ in a Super Bowl. Yeah, that's elite.
• There is nothing better than that, only equal.

 

2018 He starts out 1-1 while Wentz and a bunch of other Eagles heal up.

• He won ugly vs Atlanta in the post SB opener (he had another Philly special catch at midfield)
• He lost a shootout to Ultimate Fitzmagic (Fitz had a pair of 75 yard TD passes and went 402 4 and 144.4 rating)
  • Fitz has done this about 30 times in 170 games (he started 2018 with 8 TDs and 1 pick in 2 weeks. Tampa went 0-6 in his other 6 games)
• Then Wentz had really good stats but went 5-6 because he kept missing the easy throw on possible game winning drives
• Foles took over and was Elite for 3 games to go from 6-7 to the playoffs. He won the first playoff game with a GWD and was on his way to a possible 2nd GWD
  • Alshon got his butterfingers.
• 5-2 was an very good record for 7 games played. The stats were elite in that last 3 regular season games but just OK overall.

 

2019 He throws a beautiful rainbow strike TD pass to DJ Chark and gets demolished by Chris Jones.

• He comes back from a collarbone and the offensive production is about identical to Gardner Minshew over a period of 5 games were both guys play 2 1/2 games.
  • Minshew led the team to 3 vs Houston and 10 vs the Chargers and 11 in a half vs Tampa.
  • Foles led the team to 13 20 and 0 in a half vs Tampa
  • That's 23 vs 24 but one guy was coming back from his chest exploding... on a garbage team no matter who the QB was.
• The team was 5-11 the year before and 6-10 that year. The dynasty rolled on to 1-15 in 2020. It was not exactly a powerhouse for your typical collarbone recovery QB

Again, you are welcome to get a clue

 

2020 Trubisky wets the bed vs Atlanta and Foles come in down 16 late in the 3rd.

• When Dak comes back from this Falcons team from his own hole he is a god. When Foles does it from some other guy's hole its just luck I guess.
• Chicago's O-line collapses in on itself so hard that it may start to form a black hole.
  • They face 5 playoff games in 7 weeks while running for 28,35,63,96(OT),56,41 or about 56 a game.
• Foles beats Carolina and Tampa in the 5th down game. He gives them a great shot vs New Orleans but Nagy before the half and the dropsies in OT work against him.
• 8 games 3-5 on a bad team
• But wait, Trubisky beats the 1-15, 4-12, 5-11, 5-11, 6-10 teams so Foles must be awful. Just look at the proof!
• I guess maybe he could have in theory played better vs Minnesota behind a 41 yard run game?

Now for the 3rd time, a clue has been offered.

Maybe you think that playing on a bad team with no run game against playoff teams should be easy wins?

 

2021 Nagy gets Chip Kelly disease and decides Foles was his real problem so he pays 9 million to QB1

• QB1 goes 3-3 with 8 TDs and 9 picks.
• The talented but raw rookie goes 2-8 with 7 TDs and 11 picks.
• Foles gets 1 game with this dumpster fire and outduels a 115 rated Wilson with a rating just under 100 and a GWD with a TD pass winner to Graham at the end.
• Nagy got Dalton back in there the next week so fast because if Foles killed the Giants then everyone would turn on Nagy even harder.

This is good, right?

 

We are talking 15 bad losses over 3 cherry picked years on crap teams. 11 of the losses were to playoff teams. This is what the cult uses to hate on a SB MVP.

This is nothing compared to his peaks.

[SkippyX]

Foles has played on 2 good to great teams (2016 KC and 2017 Philly) They were 25-6 without Foles.

Those teams went 8-0 when they needed Foles  (and 0-1 in a fake week 17 game)

 

Foles played on 3 mediocre teams (2013 Eagles, 2014 Eagles, 2018 Eagles) They were 10-14 without Foles.

Those teams went 21-7 when they needed Foles.

 

He played on 5 dumpster fire teams. They went 26-29 without him.

He went 7-21 when they sort of needed him (14 of the 24 games were vs playoff teams)

How much does a team that's going to win 4 to 7 games need a QB? to get a worse draft pick?

Anyone have those Rams, Bears, or Jags as SB or even division contenders before Foles stepped in?

Its been clearly and obviously shown that he played the tough part of those schedules and the other guys mopped up on the dregs.

(this is less true of Minshew 2019 who had some incredible moments against better teams but played like Foles around when Foles played)

 

If you ignore the 29-7 to focus on the 8-16 then you are textbook ignorant.

Edited May 9, 2022 by SkippyX

[SkippyX]

I'm just showing the facts. You either face playoff teams or you don't. The other guy either plays the worst teams in the league or he doesn't.

Foles is either one of the greatest clutch players in NFL history or you are ignorant. 13 games is not a small sample size for playoff level pressure games.

If you think there can be 13 to 30 flukes then I suggest you find a dictionary.

I don't think Foles has done great things because I like him. I like him because of all the great things he has done.

 

its just not done in 16 regular season game packages like Kerry Collins or Kirk Cousins.

 

 

I welcome anyone to show me the other guys in the top 10 on both of these lists that suck.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_single_season.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career_playoffs.htm

Have a 3rd list if you want.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_career_playoffs.htm

This is good when its regular season and its Brees, right? Do the playoffs not count?

 

I see Romo somewhere on all 3 lists. If you think Romo sucks too then we are starting to form a troll profile.

 

 

[Oregon Ducks]

[JAF-N72EX]

11 hours ago, Ty21 said:

He was absolutely elite at circus catches but if you wanted him to catch a routine slant or simple catch and run, you’d have had better luck signing my grandma 

Well Velus jones isnt exactly your grandmother but im pretty sure they're close in age.

Oh and foles is garbage .

[SkippyX]

Steve Young is a 5-6 playoff QB with 11 TDs and 12 picks on a dynasty team with HoF talent if I say FLUKE! for 1994 and don't count it  (Foles hater exclusion logic)

Now lets get to 19 starts in Tampa and this guy must be awful, right?

Its cherry picking to the point of absurdity.

 

80-84 Plunkett was a fluke! His NE and SF record and stats are what really matters. 🤡

7 years and 87 starts bro, what do 67 games in Oakland/LA matter? Oh, yeah I guess 2 SBs are pretty good.

 

02-07 Kurt Warner anyone? Where does the stupidity end?

That's 3 teams, 6 years, and 42 starts.

What's 9-4, a ring, and 3 SB appearances with a 100+ playoff rating compared to 6 seasons I can focus on

 

Was Drew Bledsoe good, bad, terrible, great?

I guess it depends on your agenda before cherry picking.

 

Cunningham was nothing special if you throw out 1988, 1990, and 1998.

Sure, he was 2nd in MVP voting all 3 years but cherry picking don't care.

 

Its almost like playing QB is hard even for the good ones. 

[Ryan_W]

I'm still not convinced