The 2023 Draft Thread - We're picking #7

[Geezy]

1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said:

I like this quote:

 

lets see what he does with a full slate of picks before we compare him to Wolf lol i hope hes right though

[ronjon1990]

51 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I actually think Zeigler will prove to be a very good drafter.  I think he’s a very smart mind and very capable when it comes to that.  He did quite well last year for what he had.

im very interested in seeing Zeigler’s ability to maneuver the draft board… the ability to trade down and still get your guy and add picks as well as his ability to fill needs later on.  IE… Maybe we go Edge in round 1 and fill the CB need in later rounds.

This. 

I liked our draft last year and thought the value was decent for what we had. And we moved around a little. 

Unfortunately, we won't know for another year or two, if he sticks around. Outside of making Mayock reaches, we haven't been in a position where we could really go wrong taking anybody. Once the roster begins to actually fill out, we'll know of he has an eye for understanding needs vs wants. The FA strategy gives me some pause on that, as we went overkill at WR by about a mile. 

Is he a guy that will take nifty toys at sexy positions over actual needs? We'll find out. 

 

 

[Humble_Beast]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Tell me you've never watched Georgia play football, without telling me you've never watched Georgia play football. 

I don’t have time to watch college football. People act like they watch every game of each prospect. Let’s keep it real here 

[Rich7sena]

I feel like Clayton Tune will be drafted in the later rounds. He remind me a lot of what we saw from Stidham last year.

[jimkelly02]

19 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

That wasn't, nor was there a centerpiece to his article really. 

Hondo is well respected and his article, if you a read it, is a collection of quotes and conversations he's had. Doubt he'd make it all up to push any agenda. Guess it depends on what lens you look through.

Yeah… i wasn’t saying the quote was the center of THIS article, cuz yeah I didn’t read it, nor claimed to. 
 

“I think there’s a good percentage of quotes like this that range from entirely made up to real but dressed up.  The quote becomes the centerpiece of the story, what stops a writer from making it up or embellishing?”

So maybe “if you read it” you’d have known that.  I’m talking in generalities.

Hondo Carpenter wouldn’t push an agenda? What about the article he wrote all about “What really happened with Carr”: https://www.si.com/nfl/raiders/the-black-hole-plus/las-vegas-raiders-derek-carr-dave-ziegler-tom-brady-josh-mcdaniels-mark-davis

Its filled with quotes from unnamed sources.  All the quotes are polished and  fit perfectly and the framing of the story he’s trying to tell…. Or should I say the the story he’s trying to tell for McDaniels…. Because it’s painfully obvious he’s pushing a narrative over telling the real story.  

He goes out of his way to tell the story of Carr being too sensitive and couldn’t handle criticism (which I believe is true but ever so slightly skewed) and JMD is “Mr. Accountable” and perfect.  Where was the balance in the article about JMD not holding himself accountable or falling short of perfection? If your really writing an article about what happened your suppose to show all sides.  But that’s not really what this was…. It was HC buying favor from a HC that’s KNOWN for leaking to the media to paint himself in a better light.  It started with him and Cutler in Denver and most recently with Carr and Waller.  That’s why Josh is nicknamed “The Snake” by a good part of the league.

 JMD was far from Perfect last year and definitely didn’t meet the perfectionist standard every single week that is “Patriot Way” require and demand.  The whole article is about Josh’s criticism of Carr breaking him…. But portrays JMD as this gold standard… but in reality he seems like he’s got autism and lacks peoples skills…. Was it better to break Carr to uphold your “Patriot Way” or realize what your doing isn’t working and temporarily adjusting it to coach him up for the betterment of the team And season.  The guy was the lowest rated Coach by a players poll and when asked about it he Showed arrogance and Zero humility and desire to understand players issues and be a better coach.

Where was the duality in this piece that was introspective of Josh’s performance and role?  It was absolutely missing.  
He literally wrote “Josh McDaniels' respect for and admiration of Derek Carr was absolute. He is genuine.”  Josh is the complete opposite of genuine, his nickname Is “The Snake” for A reason.  A Little bit earlier in the article it talks about him cussing out Carr vulgarly in open meetings.  That’s respect and admiration?  I Think not.  

Hondo’s prolly a really good guy, a rather good writer, but the job requires playing a politician at times…. You gotta give to get, long goes the days of writers holding people accountable…. There’s no nostalgia left… Carr was gone, he’s no longer an asset, so he rolls with the HC and tells the story the HC wants told so he has the access for the future.

So…. No I’m not going to put Hondo Carpenter on a pedestal.  What Lense do I look thru? One that questions everything.  I everyone’s got an agenda, even myself!

[jimkelly02]

30 minutes ago, Geezy said:

lets see what he does with a full slate of picks before we compare him to Wolf lol i hope hes right though

Yeah, i don’t get that one… rather hyperbolic.  I’ve always said I think he’s a very capable guy… he’s drafted good, I think he’ll draft even better with time…. But anointing him the next Ron Wolfe already is ridiculous.  

[jimkelly02]

1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Would Ziegler ever get rid of his buddy and remain?

The next question would be…. Would Davis fire JMD or would he leave it to Zeigler?  It’s not like we follow chain of command perfectly here.  Davis hired them as a combination… it seems like Davis created another Gruden/Mayock situation where there is not the traditional hierarchy of the HC working at the behest of the GM.  

I think under certain circumstances Davis would be the one to fire McD and two of them are: McD’s offense fails, JMD loses the locker room.

[Geezy]

36 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

I don’t have time to watch college football. People act like they watch every game of each prospect. Let’s keep it real here 

so why comment on a player you know nothing about? if were really keeping it real. 

[raidr4life]

15 minutes ago, Geezy said:

so why comment on a player you know nothing about? if were really keeping it real. 

Because next week he will be a super stud and by mid season he'll say we should have drafted him 7 like he told us.

[jimkelly02]

If teams are as steadfast that Williams and Maye are generational talents….

then teams missing out on Stroud+Young would be strongly considering waiting til next year and not trading next years firsts, which project to be very high, for risky prospects like Richardson and they’d pass on Levis.  

[jimkelly02]

1 hour ago, Rich7sena said:

I feel like Clayton Tune will be drafted in the later rounds. He remind me a lot of what we saw from Stidham last year.

I think he’s one of the best non-1st round options out there when taking into consideration value.   The rankings of the QBs after Hooker and McKee are all other the place, just depends where you look.  But if you could get Tune as a late 5th or 6th I think it’d be a very good move.

[Chali21]

1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

If teams are as steadfast that Williams and Maye are generational talents….

then teams missing out on Stroud+Young would be strongly considering waiting til next year and not trading next years firsts, which project to be very high, for risky prospects like Richardson and they’d pass on Levis.  

I think there’s something to this. Richardson and Levis are both projects.  The teams trading up to #1 were doing it with either Stroud or Young in mind. It wouldn’t surprise me if teams stayed put if both those guys are gone at 3. 

[BayRaider]

Richardson and Levis are not the same. Levis doesn’t have the mental makeup to succeed (could be wrong). Richardson does have that mental makeup. He doesn’t panic. And he goes through progressions faster than Levis.

Mental stuff aside, all Levis has is an arm and decent mobility. Richardson has a laser arm, literally generational arm strength, generational dual-threat on par with Lamar, and generational size on par with Cam. His potential far out cedes Levis by every stretch of the imagination. And also a much higher chance of success. Put Richardson in the right scheme like the Eagles did for Hurts, and you have something special. Design a scheme for his strengths. 

Acting like Richardson and Levis are the same because they are both projects is asinine. Richardson is a far superior prospect. 

[jimkelly02]

30 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Richardson and Levis are not the same. Levis doesn’t have the mental makeup to succeed (could be wrong). Richardson does have that mental makeup. He doesn’t panic. And he goes through progressions faster than Levis.

Mental stuff aside, all Levis has is an arm and decent mobility. Richardson has a laser arm, literally generational arm strength, generational dual-threat on par with Lamar, and generational size on par with Cam. His potential far out cedes Levis by every stretch of the imagination. And also a much higher chance of success. Put Richardson in the right scheme like the Eagles did for Hurts, and you have something special. Design a scheme for his strengths. 

Acting like Richardson and Levis are the same because they are both projects is asinine. Richardson is a far superior prospect. 

Clinical Sports psychologist BayRaider, Ph.D over here.

Who is “acting”?  It amazes me how far some people stretch things here.

I’ll break it down real simple:

4 QB prospects who are considered to be round 1 prospects…. You might not think Levis is a 1st, 2nd, whatever round prospect but that’s your opinion and not the consensus…. I can only deal with generally accepted ideas not your reality.

it’s generally believed Stroud and Young go 1 and 2.

Q) what does that leave?  A) Richardson and Levis!!!!

Now follow me here…. Thus, I grouped them together for the sake of the argument.

Now that may upset you, it may be blasphemous to you… etc etc but less than a month ago Levis was the 2nd or 3rd QB and it was a gap down to Richardson.

that said… it shouldn’t be shocking to have the names loosely grouped together.  

Edited April 8, 2023 by jimkelly02

[ronjon1990]

27 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Clinical Sports psychologist BayRaider, Ph.D over here.

Who is “acting”?  It amazes me how far some people stretch things here.

I’ll break it down real simple:

4 QB prospects who are considered to be round 1 prospects…. You might not think Levis is a 1st, 2nd, whatever round prospect but that’s your opinion and not the consensus…. I can only deal with generally accepted ideas not your reality.

it’s generally believed Stroud and Young go 1 and 2.

Q) what does that leave?  A) Richardson and Levis!!!!

Now follow me here…. Thus, I grouped them together for the sake of the argument.

Now that may upset you, it may be blasphemous to you… etc etc but less than a month ago Levis was the 2nd or 3rd QB and it was a gap down to Richardson.

that said… it shouldn’t be shocking to have the names loosely grouped together.  

If you put two names together in a single post, folks are gonna go full Rain Man on you regarding how they are not the same at a genuinely pedantic level. 

Heaven forbid you group any two prospects together or make an analogy to a general situation.