The 2023 Draft Thread - We're picking #7

[Bitty 2.0]

1 hour ago, 101Raider said:

I think I’m starting to prefer Witherspoon over Gonzalez. 
 

Gonzalez is a freaking specimen and has a ceiling that’s otherworldly, but he’s got a few areas that aren’t being talked about enough here.  
 

1: one huge year (he wasn’t very good in 21 TBH)

2: ball skills are okay, not elite

3: questions about his COD (skipped agility drills)

4: run defense isn’t bad, but he’s a not “dawg”

For clarity sake, I’m not saying he’ll bust or that he’s awful in any of the above nitpicks.

Witherspoon on the other hand doesn’t have that insane H/W/S that Gonzo has. While I dinged Gonzo for skipping the agility  testing, I’m giving Witherspoon a pass due to injury (Voluntarily skipping something always always has me more worried).

However, he  has better instincts, is more scheme diverse (better in zone than CG, though he’s still a man cb imo) and is an outstanding run defender/tone setter.

I’d be ecstatic for either, but Witherspoon just seems like more of a sure thing at this point to me. 
 

 

I want Joey Porter Jr. His father was in the NFL he knows what it takes to succeed and let’s be honest he’s great.

[big_palooka]

11 minutes ago, NickButera said:

I share the same sentiment most of you are saying. Outside Anderson/Carter and one of the top 4 QB's there's an extremely small chance for a team changing propsect. Gonzalez is amazing don't get me wrong, but rarely do CB's change your team. Good side is there are quite a few DE's that look like they have what it takes to turn into a franchise player. I would just hate to miss out on these top few guys that look like they have an extremely high chance to be the franchise guy. 

Trading down feels very underwhelming to me. We have plenty of draft picks already. This whole offseason it feels like we've done nothing but downgrade an many positions, trading down feels like we'd be downgrading what could have been yet again. 

This draft class is interesting. There isn't a consensus #1 overall. And no real consensus on the top 20. Really more about fits and preferences. I think trading down and adding more picks in the top 100 or even a frp in 2024 would be good business. 

It's kind of Anderson/Carter, the QBs and everyone else it feels like. 

[big_palooka]

14 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

I want Joey Porter Jr. His father was in the NFL he knows what it takes to succeed and let’s be honest he’s great.

He's not really that great. And his father being great, doesn't mean he will be. 

[raidr4life]

15 minutes ago, NickButera said:

I share the same sentiment most of you are saying. Outside Anderson/Carter and one of the top 4 QB's there's an extremely small chance for a team changing propsect. Gonzalez is amazing don't get me wrong, but rarely do CB's change your team. Good side is there are quite a few DE's that look like they have what it takes to turn into a franchise player. I would just hate to miss out on these top few guys that look like they have an extremely high chance to be the franchise guy. 

Trading down feels very underwhelming to me. We have plenty of draft picks already. This whole offseason it feels like we've done nothing but downgrade an many positions, trading down feels like we'd be downgrading what could have been yet again. 

The bulk of good players are in the first 3 rounds, trading down and adding a 2nd and 3rd could net 2 more starting caliber players. Use all the late round picks to manuver and trade up into the 4th again, 8 picks by the end of the 4th round would be absolutely what this team needs.

[raidr4life]

43 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

One thing I keep hearing here and other places is: “We’ll draft defensive players heavily to fill out the holes there”

My concern is: Will these young players be able to contribute and be productive in their rookie years?

Tyree Wilson is a DE prospect we are often linked to at 7.  It’s pretty widely considered true that he’s a raw prospect who will need 2 maybe 3 years to hit his prime.  Christian Gonzales is the other most mocked player to us at 7 and while he’s a great athlete he needs rather major improvements in zone coverage and making plays at the catch point.

My concern is that we’re expecting 3-4 starters from the draft and that might be an unrealistic expectation.

Just because players have flaws doesn't mean they can't start, and they have all of TC with nfl coaches to teach them.

[NickButera]

18 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

The bulk of good players are in the first 3 rounds, trading down and adding a 2nd and 3rd could net 2 more starting caliber players. Use all the late round picks to manuver and trade up into the 4th again, 8 picks by the end of the 4th round would be absolutely what this team needs.

I disagree, we can use all our late picks to trade back up to get another 1 or 2 of those top 100 guys. I think where we're at, we don't need a potential 1 or 2 more starting guys, we need another prospect that could be elite, which is why I view our #7 pick as much more valuable than a trade back. Especially considering we have no current future at QB and the very few elite prospects available.

Now, if those 6 guys are gone, then yea it wouldn't be as bad. Missing out on a Gonzalez or Wilson isn't bad when you could get Porter,  Witherspoon, Van Ness etc.  But passing up a potential QBOTF or Carter/Anderson for those 2nd tier guys I wouldn't be thrilled about.  although I'm smart enough to admit that you never know anything about the draft, when it's all said and done and we have who we have, any guy in first round could be the best player in the draft.  I'll be hopeful no matter who we get. 

[raidr4life]

3 minutes ago, NickButera said:

I disagree, we can use all our late picks to trade back up to get another 1 or 2 of those top 100 guys. I think where we're at, we don't need a potential 1 or 2 more starting guys, we need another prospect that could be elite, which is why I view our #7 pick as much more valuable than a trade back. Especially considering we have no current future at QB and the very few elite prospects available.

Now, if those 6 guys are gone, then yea it wouldn't be as bad. Missing out on a Gonzalez or Wilson isn't bad when you could get Porter,  Witherspoon, Van Ness etc.  But passing up a potential QBOTF or Carter/Anderson for those 2nd tier guys I wouldn't be thrilled about.  although I'm smart enough to admit that you never know anything about the draft, when it's all said and done and we have who we have, any guy in first round could be the best player in the draft.  I'll be hopeful no matter who we get. 

Your not getting in the top 100 with 5th and 7 round picks.

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

Yes my minds made up, I’ve spoken to an Raiders player from last season, the same issues of the past have repeated themself, and I’ve done my research.

But, people can change.  The person I was in 2012 is the exact opposite of the person I am in 2023.  I think Zeigler is far more down to earth then JMD.  I hope he can be a positive influence on JMD.  I absolutely want JMD to change, but change requires 2 things: necessity/an event that sparks that brings consequences and desire to change.  I’m not seeing that out of JMD at the moment.

Name the player.... otherwise, it's kind of like you said about Hondo's article no?

[massraider]

56 minutes ago, NickButera said:

Trading down feels very underwhelming to me

 Every year, everyone from every forum hopes their team trades down and gets more picks. 

 

We have 12 already. I am sure at some point, we will trade picks for future consideration, but trading down in the first? When there is a clear tier we might get a player from? No thanks

[CaribouLou]

As far as edge prospects go I'm pretty intrigued with Will McDonald IV. Never seen his name mentioned once in here and i think could be a great match opposite Crosby if he's still there in the 3rd.  Would be a great price for someone who could potentially be Crosby's running mate in the future.

[NickButera]

I expect us to be busy trading. Last year we made a lot of draft day moves around the 3-5th range. Moved down in the 3d, then up in the 4th twice, and down in the 5th.  

[big_palooka]

59 minutes ago, massraider said:

 Every year, everyone from every forum hopes their team trades down and gets more picks. 

 

We have 12 already. I am sure at some point, we will trade picks for future consideration, but trading down in the first? When there is a clear tier we might get a player from? No thanks

Normally, I agree. This class seems to lacks top end talent, but has good depth. The top 10 picks are not as valuable in my view. The difference between 7 and 17 doesn't feel like a different tier to me.

You can argue several different players as CB1, Edge2, DT2, LB1 in this class. Really no consensus. Tells me having more at bats is the better options when quantity exceeds quality. 

[big_palooka]

46 minutes ago, CaribouLou said:

As far as edge prospects go I'm pretty intrigued with Will McDonald IV. Never seen his name mentioned once in here and i think could be a great match opposite Crosby if he's still there in the 3rd.  Would be a great price for someone who could potentially be Crosby's running mate in the future.

I like him a lot in round 2. He'd be a perfect situational pass rusher year 1 behind Jones, who can develop by year 2. I agree. 

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, raidr4life said:

The bulk of good players are in the first 3 rounds, trading down and adding a 2nd and 3rd could net 2 more starting caliber players. Use all the late round picks to manuver and trade up into the 4th again, 8 picks by the end of the 4th round would be absolutely what this team needs.

Agreed. 

We don't need to make 12+ picks. We need to be busy and try to accumulate picks in the first 3-4 rounds with the extras we have. 

If we can get 7 or 8 by the end of round 4, I consider it a pretty damn solid draft with potential to be a pretty special class for us. And I don't think we have to trade back so far we're abdicating our ability to still land an elite prospect in round 1 to do so. 

[jimkelly02]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Name the player.... otherwise, it's kind of like you said about Hondo's article no?

Only a low IQ person cant see the difference between me and Hondo.

Hondo is a professional writer and with a professional duty with sources and reporting and is working in a professional compacity when interviewing.  He got those quotes on the record, hence their quotes not paraphrases from off the record sources.  I had a private conversation with someone where there was an expectation of privacy.  Hence, I’d never divulge any material information.  I don’t care to impress you, frankly I don’t like you much at all.  So yeah that’s not going to happen, and it shouldn’t.  
 

but I don’t think it’s be hard to figure out who I’m talking about if you did some research.

Edited April 10, 2023 by jimkelly02