Soko Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 On 5/19/2022 at 9:01 PM, FrantikRam said: Wilson and Luck then. Both took their teams to the playoffs in year one. Wilsons weapons were worse than Herbert's (although the d was a lot better) - Lucks weapons were worse, defense also wasnt great. Seahawks points allowed: 245 Colts points allowed: 387 Chargers points allowed: 459 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 On 5/19/2022 at 3:24 PM, lancerman said: Herbert was a year one starter who came onto a pretty mediocre team and balled out in spite of the talent around him. Herbert had mediocre talent around him? The year before Herbert got there: Keenan Allen: 104 receptions, 1,200 yards Mike Williams: 49 receptions, 1,000 yards Austin Ekeler: 1,550 rushing/receiving yards Hunter Henry: 55 receptions, 652 yards 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 I don't know in what reality you can argue that Herbert's supporting cast as a rookie was bad or that he balled "in spite" of them. They're literally the same players around him now and the Chargers are supposed to be elite, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJets4716 Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 10 hours ago, NYRaider said: Herbert had mediocre talent around him? The year before Herbert got there: Keenan Allen: 104 receptions, 1,200 yards Mike Williams: 49 receptions, 1,000 yards Austin Ekeler: 1,550 rushing/receiving yards Hunter Henry: 55 receptions, 652 yards Herbert had a stud full cast around him on offense, he was definitely not hurting on a team full of guys who can't beat man coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 11 hours ago, NYRaider said: I don't know in what reality you can argue that Herbert's supporting cast as a rookie was bad or that he balled "in spite" of them. They're literally the same players around him now and the Chargers are supposed to be elite, lol. His offensive line was among the worst in the league, other than that I agree. The only hole in the offense at this point is the lack of speed at WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 1 hour ago, HerbertGOAT said: His offensive line was among the worst in the league, other than that I agree. The only hole in the offense at this point is the lack of speed at WR. How's your RT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 41 minutes ago, SkippyX said: How's your RT? We don't have it nailed on just yet, but any of the likely outcomes will be better than it was last year. Should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 2 hours ago, HerbertGOAT said: His offensive line was among the worst in the league, other than that I agree. The only hole in the offense at this point is the lack of speed at WR. Don't you guys basically have the same group w/o Henry at TE now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 21 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Don't you guys basically have the same group w/o Henry at TE now? Line is drastically different, and we cut Tyron Johnson who performed well for us in 2020. But yeah, the big pieces are the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 12 minutes ago, HerbertGOAT said: Line is drastically different, and we cut Tyron Johnson who performed well for us in 2020. But yeah, the big pieces are the same Was referring to skill position players, still lack a deep threat, but have a good group. We signed Tyron Johnson then never used him, think he's a sleeper for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 Peyton Manning led his team to a 3-13 record and threw 28 INTs as a rookie. Pump the brakes just a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 23 hours ago, HerbertGOAT said: We don't have it nailed on just yet, but any of the likely outcomes will be better than it was last year. Should be fine. Philly won a SB with Big V playing LT for 10 starts and 3 more playoff starts. Big V learned how to play OG in 2020 or so and still cant play OT. If you watch the SB highlights you can see Foles running like hell away from the guys Big V does not block. (the 4th down conversion on the last TD drive is the best example) Sometimes you can get away with a 4/5ths good line if you are strong everywhere else and adjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 18 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said: Peyton Manning led his team to a 3-13 record and threw 28 INTs as a rookie. Pump the brakes just a little. Just to be clear, Peyton also set the record for rookie touchdown passes that year. He was on an awful team. He looked like a stud who everyone knew would be good that made some rookie mistakes and had some interception issues year one. Nobody who watched that season thought Peyton was anything but a guy who looked to have a promising future. People use the interceptions to act like he was horrible year one. He wasn’t. He was mostly very good with one issue. Lawrence legitimately had a very bad year that you would expect from a bust. To put it in perspective, Lawrence had 12 TD passes, Peyton had 26. Lawrence only threw 100 more yards on the year. This is despite Lawrence playing an extra full game and playing in an entirely different era with regards to stat inflation. That doesn’t mean Lawrence is a bust. But using a year most people considered good for Manning ain’t it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 On 5/19/2022 at 4:27 AM, FrantikRam said: Luck comes to mind. Worse roster and comparable coach. Luck's defense as a rookie was better than any defense Herbert has had. Also Herbert had the greatest rookie season ever and the greatest first 2 years in the league ever. So Herbert is the easy standard, based on individual play and not team success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) On 5/20/2022 at 7:49 AM, FrantikRam said: I'd still argue that Colts team wasn't as good as Herbert's Chargers his rookie year. And Herbert had Allen who is probably the same caliber WR as Wayne. Overall point here being that Herbert is a really good player - but if he doesn't lead the Chargers to the playoffs this year it's time to start asking questions. In Luck and Russ's career they are 1-16 when their defense allows 37 or more points. (Yes i get this is a completely arbitrary number) Herbert this year alone was 2-1. Herbert did more to overcome his team's deficiencies than they did. Russ isnt even remotely close. Was carried by an all time defense. He isnt even in the convo. Luck is. But Luck had a top 10 defense his 2nd year, easier division, soft scheudle. Plus Herbert's numbers first 2 years obliterate Luck's. So no, he isn't really in the argument. If your baseline is first 2 seasons in the league of play. Herbert is the standard. If you are going first 2 years starting it's Mahomes. Marino mixed in there somewhere. Edited May 31, 2022 by Bearerofnews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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