Official 2023 QB Thread

[Ozzy]

58 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Seems like people really cooled down on this class.

If Wilson, Lance, and Fields were in this draft do they all go above Stroud/Young?

I would say yes possibly.  On the field I was more impressed with Fields than Stroud, but the Stroud has done this year with so many of his top WRs hurt that is impressive but dude has two legit backs and one of the best offensive lines in college so he has plenty of help.  

Still athletically Fields is elite and Stroud is not so that might give him the slight nod, and Fields has done decent in the NFL even with sub par WRs, RBs and especially OL.  

 

But yeah with Young hard to impress when you are hurt and Wilson/Lance/Fields are all more athletic than Young or Stroud.  All are bigger, faster and stronger so that does matter.  Still early though of course.  

 

That is where Anthony Richardson's potential is so interesting because he is an elite athlete unlike Young and Stroud and even though Wilson/Lance/Fields are great athletes, Richardson is arguably more athletic than all of them with potentially a stronger arm and that is saying something.   Sure he has work to do but hard to find dudes that big who can do this at the QB position.  Yes that is not everything but if he continues to develop and progress in terms of game management and seeing the field, he could be really good.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Ozzy

[Sllim Pickens]

21 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I would say yes possibly.  On the field I was more impressed with Fields than Stroud, but the Stroud has done this year with so many of his top WRs hurt that is impressive but dude has two legit backs and one of the best offensive lines in college so he has plenty of help.  

Still athletically Fields is elite and Stroud is not so that might give him the slight nod, and Fields has done decent in the NFL even with sub par WRs, RBs and especially OL.  

 

But yeah with Young hard to impress when you are hurt and Wilson/Lance/Fields are all more athletic than Young or Stroud.  All are bigger, faster and stronger so that does matter.  Still early though of course.  

 

That is where Anthony Richardson's potential is so interesting because he is an elite athlete unlike Young and Stroud and even though Wilson/Lance/Fields are great athletes, Richardson is arguably more athletic than all of them with potentially a stronger arm and that is saying something.   Sure he has work to do but hard to find dudes that big who can do this at the QB position.  Yes that is not everything but if he continues to develop and progress in terms of game management and seeing the field, he could be really good.

 

 

Athleticism is overrated when talking QBs.  If you want a Lamar Jackson than sure, Fields is better than Stroud but Stroud has been more accurate and better at avoiding pressure than Fields was.  Its close, but I think Stroud has the better arm talent and will be a better pro.  He is athletic enough to move the chains if needed, ala Joe Burrow.  

I don't want any part of Richardson.  His 55% completion percentage, poor decision making etc will make him drop like a rock if he comes out this year like Malik Willis.  He will likely be back next year or will be doing the combine as a WR.  

[tyler735]

Taysom Hill is probably a better athlete than basically every QB in the NFL except Lamar Jackson. Hill also has a strong arm. Doesn't make him a good QB. There's Richardson who is a great athlete and has a strong arm, but he's not good as a QB. With how bad he is currently, it seems more like wishful thinking that he's all of the sudden going to develop the traits needed to be a good QB. Sure it's possible, but highly unlikely at this point. This is Richardson's 3rd year at Florida, so far in those 3 years he has more interceptions than touchdowns.

Whoever drafts him is likely going to have to use him in a Taysom Hill, Terrelle Pryor, Reggie Mcneal, Antwan Randle El, Matt Jones, etc. type role in the NFL. In other words, that have been several athletic QB's that have come through college, but didn't have what it takes to be an NFL signal caller. Richardson seems more like the guys I've listed than actual top tier athletic QB draft prospects that have come out in recent years. 

[Ozzy]

2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Athleticism is overrated when talking QBs.  If you want a Lamar Jackson than sure, Fields is better than Stroud but Stroud has been more accurate and better at avoiding pressure than Fields was.  Its close, but I think Stroud has the better arm talent and will be a better pro.  He is athletic enough to move the chains if needed, ala Joe Burrow.  

I don't want any part of Richardson.  His 55% completion percentage, poor decision making etc will make him drop like a rock if he comes out this year like Malik Willis.  He will likely be back next year or will be doing the combine as a WR.  

 Maybe but you think the athletic ability of Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen has nothing to do with their success?  Well you are incorrect, their success is directly related to their athletic ability, ability to move outside the pocket and most importantly make throws on the run.  Not to mention same thing with Justin Herbert, Jalen Hurts, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Trevor Lawrence etc.  

Their athletic ability really matters a lot and none would be the same player without it.

 

Also last time I checked Josh Allen had an awful completion percentage in college, think that matters now?  He is easily the best QB in the NFL right now and it is not even really a discussion.  People through he could not hit the broad side of a barn when he was at Wyoming that junior year especially.  Does any of that matter now after his development?  Same thing could happen with Richardson potentially.

 

Anthony Richardson has only started 6 games in his career, and he is in an offense that is very run centered without really good receivers either.  But sure he maybe should return to school another year but I would not be shocked if he declares and still finds his way into the 1st round.  Arm talent wise he is better than Malik Willis in my opinion and is not as limited as Willis is.

 

As for Justin Fields, I think he has a stronger more impressive arm than CJ Stroud, Justin Fields pro day was outstanding and he showed off absolutely elite level arm talent, not sure CJ Stroud has that type of arm talent especially when on the move and in motion.  In the pocket sure, and yes there are things Stroud does better than Fields but as a prospect all together Fields has the stronger arm and is obviously the better athlete.  CJ Stroud plays with better talent especially at the RB position and the entire OL in general, but both greatly benefit from the stacked group of receivers always at Ohio State.

[Ozzy]

6 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Taysom Hill is probably a better athlete than basically every QB in the NFL except Lamar Jackson. Hill also has a strong arm. Doesn't make him a good QB. There's Richardson who is a great athlete and has a strong arm, but he's not good as a QB. With how bad he is currently, it seems more like wishful thinking that he's all of the sudden going to develop the traits needed to be a good QB. Sure it's possible, but highly unlikely at this point. This is Richardson's 3rd year at Florida, so far in those 3 years he has more interceptions than touchdowns.

Whoever drafts him is likely going to have to use him in a Taysom Hill, Terrelle Pryor, Reggie Mcneal, Antwan Randle El, Matt Jones, etc. type role in the NFL. In other words, that have been several athletic QB's that have come through college, but didn't have what it takes to be an NFL signal caller. Richardson seems more like the guys I've listed than actual top tier athletic QB draft prospects that have come out in recent years. 

I would disagree with that, Taysom Hill is not a better athlete than a lot of QBs, sure helps when he plays multiple positions something other QBs could not do, but he plays those positions because he has very limited arm talent.  Are you pretending that Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, Jalen Hurts, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Trevor Lawrence and Patrick Mahomes are not good athletes?  Don't confuse toughness and ability to break tackles with athletic ability and ability to run and move.  

 

Again Josh Allen had a terrible completion percentage in college and now look at him.  Did any of that matter?  The kid improved and showed the arm talent at the Pro day and I would not be shocked if Richardson has similar arm talent.

 

To say he is Terrell Pryor or Matt Jones, well no not every athletic QB needs to switch positions.  Yes Vince Young probably needed to switch positions and never did, Anthony Richardson is far from being in that category and way to early to call that one.  He has only started 6 games in his college career, not like he started 30 games or something in his three years, and obviously one of those he did not play at all and redshirted.  

 

Watch him against Tennessee, he had some very impressive throws in that game, and that was on the road against one of the better teams in the nation.  If Jalen Hurts can be a starting QB in the NFL so can Anthony Richardson.  

[Sllim Pickens]

20 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 Maybe but you think the athletic ability of Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen has nothing to do with their success?  Well you are incorrect, their success is directly related to their athletic ability, ability to move outside the pocket and most importantly make throws on the run.  Not to mention same thing with Justin Herbert, Jalen Hurts, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Trevor Lawrence etc.  

Their athletic ability really matters a lot and none would be the same player without it.

 

Also last time I checked Josh Allen had an awful completion percentage in college, think that matters now?  He is easily the best QB in the NFL right now and it is not even really a discussion.  People through he could not hit the broad side of a barn when he was at Wyoming that junior year especially.  Does any of that matter now after his development?  Same thing could happen with Richardson potentially.

 

Anthony Richardson has only started 6 games in his career, and he is in an offense that is very run centered without really good receivers either.  But sure he maybe should return to school another year but I would not be shocked if he declares and still finds his way into the 1st round.  Arm talent wise he is better than Malik Willis in my opinion and is not as limited as Willis is.

 

As for Justin Fields, I think he has a stronger more impressive arm than CJ Stroud, Justin Fields pro day was outstanding and he showed off absolutely elite level arm talent, not sure CJ Stroud has that type of arm talent especially when on the move and in motion.  In the pocket sure, and yes there are things Stroud does better than Fields but as a prospect all together Fields has the stronger arm and is obviously the better athlete.  CJ Stroud plays with better talent especially at the RB position and the entire OL in general, but both greatly benefit from the stacked group of receivers always at Ohio State.

Allen and Mahomes are athletic but they aren't 4.4 fourty type athletes.  Stroud will probably run a 4.8 like Mahomes did (4.74 in Highschool so maybe even better than Allen's). He probably is at least as laterally athletic.  Stroud has a quicker release (mechanics and decision making) than Fields by nearly half of a second. His pressure to sack rate of 10% is less than half of what Fields was (23.6%) which tells me that Stroud has better awareness, decision making skills, and ability to evade pressure and still get the ball off.  

Being an athletic QB doesnt mean you can do flips and run like Lamar Jackson.  It means you can move around in the pocket and make throws under pressure like you know, Tom Brady, Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence and so many more with a history of being successful in the league.  Stroud has that and more, and is probably on a level athletically to Herbert with the pocket awareness of the elite pocket passers.  

Josh Allen is an exception, not the rule when it comes to completion percentages.  Very few develop like Allen did and unless Daboll is coaching every QB you draft, then risking it hoping you get Allen will likely lead to you more failures and loss of job.  Accuracy and completion percentage is one of the most transferable skills to the NFL and significant changes are due to super athletes like Allen or the other way being lack of effort like Jamarcus Russell.  https://bestballstats.com/2021/04/17/nfl-draft-the-stats-that-correlate-to-quarterback-success/

That link also talks about turnover rate and how that is often a sign of decision making, ability to read defenses and is also often transferable.  The 5 to 7 TD to INT ratio is scary, and says he really doesnt understand how to play QB.  He is in year 3 at Florida, and even without the snaps he should be better than this.  His 6 to 5 ratio last year show its a trend.  In total he has 13 Ints in 211 attempts.  The worst INTs in 200 pass attempts in the NFL this year is 7 (Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford, Wentz is at 6).  

So yeah, keep the guy with a negative in every transferable category off my teams draft board.  get excited about those measurables and the arm strength and end up with Jamarcus Russell.  

[Ozzy]

14 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Allen and Mahomes are athletic but they aren't 4.4 fourty type athletes.  Stroud will probably run a 4.8 like Mahomes did (4.74 in Highschool so maybe even better than Allen's). He probably is at least as laterally athletic.  Stroud has a quicker release (mechanics and decision making) than Fields by nearly half of a second. His pressure to sack rate of 10% is less than half of what Fields was (23.6%) which tells me that Stroud has better awareness, decision making skills, and ability to evade pressure and still get the ball off.  

Being an athletic QB doesnt mean you can do flips and run like Lamar Jackson.  It means you can move around in the pocket and make throws under pressure like you know, Tom Brady, Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence and so many more with a history of being successful in the league.  Stroud has that and more, and is probably on a level athletically to Herbert with the pocket awareness of the elite pocket passers.  

Josh Allen is an exception, not the rule when it comes to completion percentages.  Very few develop like Allen did and unless Daboll is coaching every QB you draft, then risking it hoping you get Allen will likely lead to you more failures and loss of job.  Accuracy and completion percentage is one of the most transferable skills to the NFL and significant changes are due to super athletes like Allen or the other way being lack of effort like Jamarcus Russell.  https://bestballstats.com/2021/04/17/nfl-draft-the-stats-that-correlate-to-quarterback-success/

That link also talks about turnover rate and how that is often a sign of decision making, ability to read defenses and is also often transferable.  The 5 to 7 TD to INT ratio is scary, and says he really doesnt understand how to play QB.  He is in year 3 at Florida, and even without the snaps he should be better than this.  His 6 to 5 ratio last year show its a trend.  In total he has 13 Ints in 211 attempts.  The worst INTs in 200 pass attempts in the NFL this year is 7 (Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford, Wentz is at 6).  

So yeah, keep the guy with a negative in every transferable category off my teams draft board.  get excited about those measurables and the arm strength and end up with Jamarcus Russell.  

Don't like the guy that is fine, I just disagree with you.  I will give him a pass in 2020 his redshirt year, it was during the pandemic and they barely even had a season that year and it was just a very odd situation.  Oh and they had Kyle Trask the clear starter and Emory Jones, last year Emory Jones was clearly the starter all season.  

 

Does Richardson need to develop, sure but to disregard his arm talent and just call him Jamarcus Russell, well that is not accurate because Jamarcus could not run at all and was terrible throwing on the move, two things Richardson is good at.  Not to mention the dude has a cannon for an arm and has a highly develop quick release.

 

Sure Mahomes and Josh Allen did not run a 4.4 but Kyler Murray easily could have, Lamar Jackson is more 4.3 range, Jalen Hurts is 4.59 range but could play WR or better yet TE/RB if asked to do so.  Cam Newton only ran a 4.69 range 40 and to call him some bad athlete, not so sure about that one.  Marcus Mariota ran in the 4.5 range and is starting currently at QB, pretty sure his athletic ability has a lot to do with it.

 

No way CJ Stroud is the athlete Justin Herbert is, no way, Justin Herbert is a legit running weapon at QB, no way CJ Stroud scares people when he runs because he barely does it for a reason.  Herbert was a force running in college and the NFL, not to mention is far bigger than CJ and faster with a stronger arm.  What 3" taller and 15 pounds heavier, 4.68 40 and a 35" vertical at 6-6 235 is pretty solid, doubt CJ performs that well athletically being a much smaller dude.  

 

I just think it is way to early to want Anthony Richardson to switch freaking positions, that is way premature.  Especially considering how much better Anthony Richardson looks this year compared to last season, I see a ton of improvement in his ability as a QB in just that one year.  He has yet to get pro coaching obviously not to mention just went through an entire coaching and system change as well.  Considering that, he has done pretty well but sure has made some mistakes and awful throws especially against Kentucky and USF.

[jrry32]

53 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

That link also talks about turnover rate and how that is often a sign of decision making, ability to read defenses and is also often transferable.  The 5 to 7 TD to INT ratio is scary, and says he really doesnt understand how to play QB.  He is in year 3 at Florida, and even without the snaps he should be better than this.  His 6 to 5 ratio last year show its a trend.  In total he has 13 Ints in 211 attempts.  The worst INTs in 200 pass attempts in the NFL this year is 7 (Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford, Wentz is at 6).  

So yeah, keep the guy with a negative in every transferable category off my teams draft board.  get excited about those measurables and the arm strength and end up with Jamarcus Russell.  

Richardson has a long way to go, but I think you're too caught up in the numbers at this stage. The fact that he's in Year 3 doesn't say much. He was extremely raw coming out of HS, Mullen seemed resentful of him because the fans wanted him to play over Mullen's choice, and he's getting used to a completely new system this year (a complex pro-style system that puts a lot on the QB). 

It's worth watching his progression. His big weakness thus far (where he tends to make mistakes) is when he holds the ball. It has led to some bad decisions. But he has progressed well in terms of grasping the offense, making calls at the LOS, and getting the ball out on time. I'd put more stock in how he finishes than how he starts.

Frankly, I'm more concerned about his durability than anything else. He keeps getting nicked up. I also wish he'd stop trying to be such a pocket passer. He looks better when he moves around and creates with his legs. Seems like he's trying a bit too hard to be what he thinks the NFL wants him to be.

[tyler735]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I would disagree with that, Taysom Hill is not a better athlete than a lot of QBs.
 

I’m going to be honest, I had to stop reading here. Like seriously, how is Taysom Hill not one of the best athletes to ever play QB? He’s a trash QB, but undoubtedly among the most athletic to ever play that position in the NFL.

That said, we will have to wait and see I suppose on Richardson. I simply don’t see it at this point with him having NFL caliber QB traits other than arm strength.

Edited October 11, 2022 by tyler735

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

I’m going to be honest, I had to stop reading here. Like seriously, how is Taysom Hill not one of the best athletes to ever play QB? He’s a trash QB, but undoubtedly among the most athletic to ever play that position in the NFL.

That said, we will have to wait and see I suppose on Richardson. I simply don’t see it at this point with him having NFL caliber QB traits other than arm strength.

Taysom Hill got a chance to play QB because the team he is on is very creative offensively and they had some absolutely massive QB issues the past few seasons so they had to play him at QB.  He is not a QB he just filled in and sure did well at times and does very well at other positions but that is also because they creatively use him extremely well where most teams would just put him in the QB box and sit him there.

 

If Tim Tebow was willing and played in a similar offense I imagine he would be successful as a HB type and more of a HB/RB.  

 

These guys made position switches in the NFL and were pretty successful after all being college QBs, some very successful.  None got a chance really to play at QB and rightfully so.  Pryor got a little run at QB then one great season at WR but nothing long term.

 

Julian Edelman
Antwaan Randle El
Brad Smith
Logan Thomas
Joshua Cribbs
Michael Robinson
Jerick McKinnon
Ronald Curry
Terrelle Pryor
Denard Robinson
 

Position changes yet did not have success really with the switch.

Malcolm Perry
Greg Ward Jr
Pat White
Keenan Reynolds
Tyrone Swoopes
Armanti Edwards
Matt Jones
Reggie McNeal
Scoff Frost
Eric Crouch

 

 

Here are the top QB 40 times before they got to the league, so yeah a lot of dudes can run and more than a few run way faster than Taysom Hill.  I would argue Justin Fields is a better overall athlete than Taysom Hill same Trey Lance especially if the dude ran a 40 which he did not but he would easily clock in the 4.4 range max 4.5.  Joe Webb is one hell of an athlete as well and stuck around in the league despite not having a ton of success statistically but hug on even as a backup QB and backup WR just because he was such a good athlete, played special teams a ton.  Ryan Tannehill literally played WR in college and was damn good, and ran a decent 40 and to me playing a legit WR position is a lot harder than being a gimmick player in a very creative offense.  Drew Brees did not run some great 40 but had over 500 yards rushing his last year and is one hell of a runner when need be, some dudes can just run and are tough and lucky for Taysom he is tough and fast.  

 

Michael Vick 4.33 pro day
Reggie McNeal 4.35 
Terrelle Pryor 4.38
Kyler Murray 4.38 (early college time)
Robert Griffin III 4.41
Armanti Edwards 4.41 pro day
Joe Webb 4.43
Justin Fields 4.44 pro day
Donovan McNabb 4.45 pro day
Tyrod Taylor 4.47
Vince Young 4.48
Kordell Stewart 4.49
Jake Locker 4.51
Marcus Mariota 4.52
Daunte Culpepper 4.52
Colin Kaepernick 4.53
Steve Young 4.53
Russell Wilson 4.55
Pat White 4.55
Jeff Driskel 4.56
Seneca Wallace  4.56
Kellen Mond 4.57 pro day
Keenan Reynolds 4.57
Cam Newton 4.59
Geno Smith 4.59
John Elway 4.59

 

 

 

Awesome for Taysom Hill though, because he was a walking injury in his college career, and he got that huge contract but honestly not sure he lives up to it but he does bring versatility few if anyone can bring so there is that.  Not many or any TEs can be the backup QB.  But not sure I would call him a QB first instead of a gadget player who can play QB.  So great for him but again it is thanks to the creative coaching and organization for that one, other guys could have done the same if given the chance.  

[tyler735]

9 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

If Tim Tebow was willing and played in a similar offense I imagine he would be successful as a HB type and more of a HB/RB.  

Possibly could have done some FB type stuff. Difference being Taysom is a far more explosive athlete.

9 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

These guys made position switches in the NFL and were pretty successful after all being college QBs, some very successful.  None got a chance really to play at QB and rightfully so.  Pryor got a little run at QB then one great season at WR but nothing long term.

Julian Edelman
Antwaan Randle El
Brad Smith
Logan Thomas
Joshua Cribbs
Michael Robinson
Jerick McKinnon
Ronald Curry
Terrelle Pryor
Denard Robinson
 

Position changes yet did not have success really with the switch.

Malcolm Perry
Greg Ward Jr
Pat White
Keenan Reynolds
Tyrone Swoopes
Armanti Edwards
Matt Jones
Reggie McNeal
Scoff Frost
Eric Crouch

I see Richardson going into the above group in the NFL.

9 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Here are the top QB 40 times before they got to the league, so yeah a lot of dudes can run and more than a few run way faster than Taysom Hill.  I would argue Justin Fields is a better overall athlete than Taysom Hill same Trey Lance especially if the dude ran a 40 which he did not but he would easily clock in the 4.4 range max 4.5.  Joe Webb is one hell of an athlete as well and stuck around in the league despite not having a ton of success statistically but hug on even as a backup QB and backup WR just because he was such a good athlete, played special teams a ton.  Ryan Tannehill literally played WR in college and was damn good, and ran a decent 40 and to me playing a legit WR position is a lot harder than being a gimmick player in a very creative offense.  Drew Brees did not run some great 40 but had over 500 yards rushing his last year and is one hell of a runner when need be, some dudes can just run and are tough and lucky for Taysom he is tough and fast.  

 

Michael Vick 4.33 pro day
Reggie McNeal 4.35 
Terrelle Pryor 4.38
Kyler Murray 4.38 (early college time)
Robert Griffin III 4.41
Armanti Edwards 4.41 pro day
Joe Webb 4.43

Taysom Hill 4.44 pro day

Justin Fields 4.44 pro day
Donovan McNabb 4.45 pro day
Tyrod Taylor 4.47
Vince Young 4.48
Kordell Stewart 4.49
Jake Locker 4.51
Marcus Mariota 4.52
Daunte Culpepper 4.52
Colin Kaepernick 4.53
Steve Young 4.53
Russell Wilson 4.55
Pat White 4.55
Jeff Driskel 4.56
Seneca Wallace  4.56
Kellen Mond 4.57 pro day
Keenan Reynolds 4.57
Cam Newton 4.59
Geno Smith 4.59
John Elway 4.59

Awesome for Taysom Hill though, because he was a walking injury in his college career, and he got that huge contract but honestly not sure he lives up to it but he does bring versatility few if anyone can bring so there is that.  Not many or any TEs can be the backup QB.  But not sure I would call him a QB first instead of a gadget player who can play QB.  So great for him but again it is thanks to the creative coaching and organization for that one, other guys could have done the same if given the chance.  

Taysom Hill went 4.44 at his pro day at 6’2” 230lbs. He also had a 38.5” vert. He also squats around 700lbs. That is a freakish combo of size, speed, and strength. His game highlights continue to show that freakish athletic ability even at age 32.

I’m gonna bow out of this one for awhile though. If Richardson ever shows any improvements passing the ball I’ll continue this discussion otherwise we are just simply going off what if’s that don’t seem to be happening any time soon.

[Sllim Pickens]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Don't like the guy that is fine, I just disagree with you.  I will give him a pass in 2020 his redshirt year, it was during the pandemic and they barely even had a season that year and it was just a very odd situation.  Oh and they had Kyle Trask the clear starter and Emory Jones, last year Emory Jones was clearly the starter all season.  

 

Does Richardson need to develop, sure but to disregard his arm talent and just call him Jamarcus Russell, well that is not accurate because Jamarcus could not run at all and was terrible throwing on the move, two things Richardson is good at.  Not to mention the dude has a cannon for an arm and has a highly develop quick release.

 

Sure Mahomes and Josh Allen did not run a 4.4 but Kyler Murray easily could have, Lamar Jackson is more 4.3 range, Jalen Hurts is 4.59 range but could play WR or better yet TE/RB if asked to do so.  Cam Newton only ran a 4.69 range 40 and to call him some bad athlete, not so sure about that one.  Marcus Mariota ran in the 4.5 range and is starting currently at QB, pretty sure his athletic ability has a lot to do with it.

 

No way CJ Stroud is the athlete Justin Herbert is, no way, Justin Herbert is a legit running weapon at QB, no way CJ Stroud scares people when he runs because he barely does it for a reason.  Herbert was a force running in college and the NFL, not to mention is far bigger than CJ and faster with a stronger arm.  What 3" taller and 15 pounds heavier, 4.68 40 and a 35" vertical at 6-6 235 is pretty solid, doubt CJ performs that well athletically being a much smaller dude.  

 

I just think it is way to early to want Anthony Richardson to switch freaking positions, that is way premature.  Especially considering how much better Anthony Richardson looks this year compared to last season, I see a ton of improvement in his ability as a QB in just that one year.  He has yet to get pro coaching obviously not to mention just went through an entire coaching and system change as well.  Considering that, he has done pretty well but sure has made some mistakes and awful throws especially against Kentucky and USF.

CJ will run in the low 4.7s, maybe high 4.6s.  Thats what Herbert ran.  Yes he was taller but CJ is not little at 6'3".  He is athletic, he can run when he needs to but doesnt often need to and when you are completing 79% of your passes, why run when your surrounding talent is more athletic.  Guys like Burrow, Lawrence, Mac Jones, etc are all far less athletic than Stroud, so knocking him for being less athletic than Lamar Jackson is an odd take.  

I am not writing off Richardson as a QB, but if he comes out this year it would be as a WR/TE.  He is so raw as a passer and leader of an offense that he needs to grow and show he can develop to be worth drafting.  Nobody has ever drafted a QB who completes 50% of their passes, has more ints than TDs and doesnt win games in the first round just because they have arm talent.  Not being able to pick up a new offense is concerning, even though its difficult, QBs in the NFL do it often. The intelligence, awareness, vision, etc are what make QBs great and struggling to read defenses and pick up systems is a sign that that area may be lacking.  Its why Tom Brady is one of the greatest ever when he is one of the least athletic guys in the league and doesnt have the strongest arm.  If Richardson pulls it together and finishes strong than maybe but as of now, the results dont match the hype.  So while all of the preseason hope was he would be great, nothing he does is at an NFL level and he would again have to be the one outlier to turn it around and be great in the NFL while being trash in college and I just dont think its smart to take a chance on that unless youre in the mid to late rounds.  

I think that Tanner McKee, KJ Jefferson, and Grayson McCall will be the other first round QBs this year after the top 2.  I like them all more than Levis as well but also think Levis has a chance to still hang in the first round.  And I would easily take any of them over Richardson at this point.  All are athletic and accurate and have those traits that tend to transfer easier to the NFL. 

[sammymvpknight]

4 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I would disagree with that, Taysom Hill is not a better athlete than a lot of QBs, sure helps when he plays multiple positions something other QBs could not do, but he plays those positions because he has very limited arm talent.  Are you pretending that Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, Jalen Hurts, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Trevor Lawrence and Patrick Mahomes are not good athletes?  Don't confuse toughness and ability to break tackles with athletic ability and ability to run and move.  

 

Again Josh Allen had a terrible completion percentage in college and now look at him.  Did any of that matter?  The kid improved and showed the arm talent at the Pro day and I would not be shocked if Richardson has similar arm talent.

 

To say he is Terrell Pryor or Matt Jones, well no not every athletic QB needs to switch positions.  Yes Vince Young probably needed to switch positions and never did, Anthony Richardson is far from being in that category and way to early to call that one.  He has only started 6 games in his college career, not like he started 30 games or something in his three years, and obviously one of those he did not play at all and redshirted.  

 

Watch him against Tennessee, he had some very impressive throws in that game, and that was on the road against one of the better teams in the nation.  If Jalen Hurts can be a starting QB in the NFL so can Anthony Richardson.  

Taysom Hill is an athlete freak of nature. 

[Ozzy]

50 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

CJ will run in the low 4.7s, maybe high 4.6s.  Thats what Herbert ran.  Yes he was taller but CJ is not little at 6'3".  He is athletic, he can run when he needs to but doesnt often need to and when you are completing 79% of your passes, why run when your surrounding talent is more athletic.  Guys like Burrow, Lawrence, Mac Jones, etc are all far less athletic than Stroud, so knocking him for being less athletic than Lamar Jackson is an odd take.  

I am not writing off Richardson as a QB, but if he comes out this year it would be as a WR/TE.  He is so raw as a passer and leader of an offense that he needs to grow and show he can develop to be worth drafting.  Nobody has ever drafted a QB who completes 50% of their passes, has more ints than TDs and doesnt win games in the first round just because they have arm talent.  Not being able to pick up a new offense is concerning, even though its difficult, QBs in the NFL do it often. The intelligence, awareness, vision, etc are what make QBs great and struggling to read defenses and pick up systems is a sign that that area may be lacking.  Its why Tom Brady is one of the greatest ever when he is one of the least athletic guys in the league and doesnt have the strongest arm.  If Richardson pulls it together and finishes strong than maybe but as of now, the results dont match the hype.  So while all of the preseason hope was he would be great, nothing he does is at an NFL level and he would again have to be the one outlier to turn it around and be great in the NFL while being trash in college and I just dont think its smart to take a chance on that unless youre in the mid to late rounds.  

I think that Tanner McKee, KJ Jefferson, and Grayson McCall will be the other first round QBs this year after the top 2.  I like them all more than Levis as well but also think Levis has a chance to still hang in the first round.  And I would easily take any of them over Richardson at this point.  All are athletic and accurate and have those traits that tend to transfer easier to the NFL. 

KJ Jefferson is extremely limited as a passer especially against top competition, he has disappointed this year and I would be shocked if he is a 1st round pick this year, really he should go back to school.  Right now I absolutely do not have him as a early entry guy yet.   McKee, well if Davis Mills is not a 1st round pick McKee should not be, Mills was a better player and better prospect but still early to tell.   As for McCall, sure he is decent but 1st round?  What makes him that much better than Sam Hartman?  Not much and no one is saying Hartman should be a 1st round pick.  Levis is better than all of them in terms of arm talent and is more athletic and physically stronger than all of them as well.  No way he is not selected ahead of all three of those guys.  

 

For all the people that love Taysom Hill around here, Levis is just as big and as powerful of a runner as Hill and he can actually throw the football and has a much more talented throwing arm.  Sure might not be as fast but has a far better chance of being a long term starter at QB than Taysom Hill.  

 

Clearly what you look at in terms of a QB is different than me.  

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

Possibly could have done some FB type stuff. Difference being Taysom is a far more explosive athlete.

I see Richardson going into the above group in the NFL.

Taysom Hill went 4.44 at his pro day at 6’2” 230lbs. He also had a 38.5” vert. He also squats around 700lbs. That is a freakish combo of size, speed, and strength. His game highlights continue to show that freakish athletic ability even at age 32.

I’m gonna bow out of this one for awhile though. If Richardson ever shows any improvements passing the ball I’ll continue this discussion otherwise we are just simply going off what if’s that don’t seem to be happening any time soon.

 

Taysom Hill can squat 700 pounds?  I thought it was around 600ish like Jalen Hurts can do.  Move him to another position?  Again watch him against Tennessee this year and pretend those are not NFL throws he makes in that game.  He shows arm talent Taysom Hill has never shown, thus no reason he should not get a chance at the position.  

[Ninersfan1984]

Never understood the Phil Jurkovec hype. Just never seemed like an NFL level QB to me.