SilverNBlackFan Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, big_palooka said: 100%. I fully expected this team to lose to the Pats. But I expected it to be a game with 2 weeks to prep. It speaks volumes how inept the staff is when our two biggest losses so far this year have come when the coaches have had extra time to prepare and gameplan for the next opponent. No new wrinkles, no adjustments, no personnel changes, no new nothing. We literally didn't change a thing about our bottom ranked offense and defense, and trotted them out there to play Brady and Bellichek. Oh wait, I take that back...we did make one change....we decided to start to a rookie safety at corner in his second ever game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 15 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: I wanted Seth Roberts replaced after his rookie year in 2015, even after he made a number of crucial TD catches that year. Seth is just a bad player. Not a natural receiver. Bad hands, body catcher. Mental lapses. For every positive play he makes, he cancels that out by making 3 times the mistakes. With Coop and Crab drawing coverage and Cooks being a threat, a competent third WR who faces single man coverage the majority of the time should be flourishing. Reggie needs to swallow his pride and go get 1-2 more receivers this off-season. That's what I'm saying. We need someone who's quick/can separate and is a vertical threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Cooper needs to move to the slot where he's best suited. Draft another outside WR. RB, WR,T on offense Pass Rush, CB, LB on defense. Pretty straight forward offseason. Oh and find someone who can actually coach them up. IMO, a guy decent DC could improve this unit 35% across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Moving Coop exclusively to the slot would be a mistake too imo. He just needs to be used like a modern day receiver, which is basically everywhere. Antonio Brown, OBJ, Julio, AJ, Jordy, etc... all these guys move around. They don't just stay in one place. They are allowed to attack from a number of different positions and take advantage of different match-ups. The Raiders rarely even motion our receivers, it's pathetic. Get a coach in here who knows how to create match-ups and move his players around to succeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: Moving Coop exclusively to the slot would be a mistake too imo. He just needs to be used like a modern day receiver, which is basically everywhere. Antonio Brown, OBJ, Julio, AJ, Jordy, etc... all these guys move around. They don't just stay in one place. They are allowed to attack from a number of different positions and take advantage of different match-ups. The Raiders rarely even motion our receivers, it's pathetic. Get a coach in here who knows how to create match-ups and move his players around to succeed But from what I've seen we do move Coop around quite a bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 49 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said: But from what I've seen we do move Coop around quite a bit... Umm no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 36 minutes ago, raidr4life said: Umm no! Anything else to support that "no" other than the one Austin tweet? I observe him as X, Z and in the slot. that is moving around to me but I can understand if you just want more of him in the slot. I was saying that last year. I would be interested to know how PFF counts the slot snaps too. Is it any alignment that isn't X or Y? Do they include being an interior WR in bunch or trips as slot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonGruber Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 4 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: That's what I'm saying. We need someone who's quick/can separate and is a vertical threat. Please Seth Roberts blocking is second to none dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, SimonGruber said: Please Seth Roberts blocking is second to none dude It's old. Get over it. But I'm not surprised from someone who contributes nothing to the convo pretty consistently. I said we could and I look forward to upgrading the position. I want a true #1 WR, Coop in the Slot and Crab as our possession WR that can be replaced as he gets long in the tooth. Doesn't take away from the good things that Seth has done in the past and doesn't mean he will always be a plus on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 18 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said: It's old. Get over it. But I'm not surprised from someone who contributes nothing to the convo pretty consistently. I said we could and I look forward to upgrading the position. I want a true #1 WR, Coop in the Slot and Crab as our possession WR that can be replaced as he gets long in the tooth. Doesn't take away from the good things that Seth has done in the past and doesn't mean he will always be a plus on the field. Uhh, Cooper is definitely a #1 WR. He's just used terribly and placed in bracket coverage/with safety help and we don't consistently use route combinations to help him. When we do, you see the results (e.g KC this year, Tampa Bay last year). We aren't landing a Julio Jones/AJ Green/Antonio Brown any time soon. He's as good as it gets for most teams. Roberts has also been plenty mediocre in the past. It's time to let this one go. He isn't a good player, he isn't worth his extension, and he shouldn't be starting. It's ludicrous that he wasn't benched. If you aren't willing to admit that, you'll be losing credibility. We all make mistakes, me included (I've made plenty), but this one is a lost cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 4 hours ago, NightTrainLane said: But from what I've seen we do move Coop around quite a bit... No we don't. That's ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said: No we don't. That's ludicrous. Saying it's ludicrous proves nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Uhh, Cooper is definitely a #1 WR. He's just used terribly and placed in bracket coverage/with safety help and we don't consistently use route combinations to help him. When we do, you see the results (e.g KC this year, Tampa Bay last year). We aren't landing a Julio Jones/AJ Green/Antonio Brown any time soon. He's as good as it gets for most teams. Roberts has also been plenty mediocre in the past. It's time to let this one go. He isn't a good player, he isn't worth his extension, and he shouldn't be starting. It's ludicrous that he wasn't benched. If you aren't willing to admit that, you'll be losing credibility. We all make mistakes, me included (I've made plenty), but this one is a lost cause. Maybe I should rephrase a bit. No, I don't put Cooper on the level of those 3 guys but I do see him as a star and someone that if used right can put up #s just like Golden Tate or Doug Baldwin. (And no, I'm not looking to get into a back and forth comparison with those names.) But I want a #1 WR in stature like a Juilo, Megatron, LarryF, Mike Evans or even Mike Thomas. A guy that is 6'3 or better that can dominate, box out and has a crazy catch radius. Saying we aren't landing one means nothing because anything can happen in the draft or FA. It's time to let go of what? That I thought that Roberts has made plenty of big plays and has pluses to his game? Naw, I think that I'll keep that view because it is the truth and what I was saying. I also pointed out the deal he got being comparable to other WRs with similar roles and stats over the last 3 years but that doesn't get brought up because it's easily provable by just looking at the #s. None of those things that I have stated are mistakes. Now, does he drops balls, yes. Just like Coop(leads the league this year) and Crab(lead the league last year) and Wash and Holton. The fumble was bad last week. I was pissed. But I also have to look at the 3 or 4 TDs or big 3rd down conversions he has gotten for us by not going down. It's part of his game that is usually a plus for us that went bad. He had a bad game but that doesn't mean he is a bad player or didn't earn his deal. You lost me on the credibility comment. More of an indictment of you than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 2 hours ago, NightTrainLane said: Maybe I should rephrase a bit. No, I don't put Cooper on the level of those 3 guys but I do see him as a star and someone that if used right can put up #s just like Golden Tate or Doug Baldwin. (And no, I'm not looking to get into a back and forth comparison with those names.) But I want a #1 WR in stature like a Juilo, Megatron, LarryF, Mike Evans or even Mike Thomas. A guy that is 6'3 or better that can dominate, box out and has a crazy catch radius. Saying we aren't landing one means nothing because anything can happen in the draft or FA. It's time to let go of what? That I thought that Roberts has made plenty of big plays and has pluses to his game? Naw, I think that I'll keep that view because it is the truth and what I was saying. I also pointed out the deal he got being comparable to other WRs with similar roles and stats over the last 3 years but that doesn't get brought up because it's easily provable by just looking at the #s. None of those things that I have stated are mistakes. Now, does he drops balls, yes. Just like Coop(leads the league this year) and Crab(lead the league last year) and Wash and Holton. The fumble was bad last week. I was pissed. But I also have to look at the 3 or 4 TDs or big 3rd down conversions he has gotten for us by not going down. It's part of his game that is usually a plus for us that went bad. He had a bad game but that doesn't mean he is a bad player or didn't earn his deal. You lost me on the credibility comment. More of an indictment of you than me. 5 Drops can me mitigated by big plays/talent. If a good receiver drops balls its something you can live with. With Roberts it's not. He also has 1 touchdown this year. He hasn't been making big plays, or doing much of anything against single coverage all season long. He got the deal, but I don't think he's earned it, especially with his play this year. Around 400 yards is pretty awful for a team that plays mainly 3 receiver sets. Considering, he's on pace for 2 touchdowns this year, that number seems even worse. The penalties and stone hands are just cherries on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 5 hours ago, NightTrainLane said: Saying it's ludicrous proves nothing. And saying it proves nothing, proves nothing. Do any of you care to share an evidence to your claims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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