Cavaliers Thread: We Somehow Both Don't and Do Suck

[MWil23]

6 minutes ago, roger murdock said:

think in the last 10 drafts he’s the 4th best prospect

1. AD 2. Zion 3. Cade 4. Green 

Hot take:

I would have taken Ja over Zion. I said it before the draft and 2 years later I’m still confident in that.

[AkronsWitness]

45 minutes ago, roger murdock said:

Jalen Green will have a better career than Cade Cunningham (I feel it) and we’d be idiots to pass on him

He’s the most athletically gifted SG I’ve ever seen. He’s Randy Moss with a jump shot. He glides up and down the court and through the air. He has the quickest first step I’ve ever seen. His body control is amazing. His coordination is terrific. He has a freaky vertical. And he’s a smart player too! His passing and movement offball are underrated. He can score like crazy from 3 levels while doing it in flow of offense or forcing it if he needs to. And he’s a good kid with a work ethic. 
 

I think if he goes to a situation that features him as a #1 option as a rookie he will score more points than any rookie since Iverson, maybe since Jordan. 

 

He’s by far the best SG prospect I’ve seen since following the draft around 2005ish. His only downsides are he’s not a + defender yet and he’s skinny. 

 

Best pure scoring prospect since Durant. 
 

I think in the last 10 drafts he’s the 4th best prospect

1. AD 2. Zion 3. Cade 4. Green 

Those are 3 things Ive read that are knocks against him. That he is essentially Zach Lavine with worse explosion off the dribble and lacks any real basketball ability outside of being a talented scorer with a high vertical

But hey, it sounds like he has a incredible ceiling if things break right for him. What the hell do I know

I just have no idea how he fits in a already crowded guard rotation with Garland/Sexton/Okoro/Green. Those would be 4 of the Cavs 'core' pieces playing the same 2 positions unless Okoro grows 4" this offseason.

Im not keen on forcing Okoro to play SF when he showed last year he is not in the same height/weight class as guys like Kawhi, Siakam, Brown, Tatum, LeBron, Butler and others hes asked to guard every night. Its setting him up for failure trying to make a crowded lockerroom fit. Im also sure he doesnt like getting physically abused every night by guys who have 25lbs and 3" in height on him.

Edited June 23, 2021 by AkronsWitness

[brownie man]

#teamkuminga

taking all boarders of the bandwagon now 

[sdrawkcab321]

10 minutes ago, brownie man said:

#teamkuminga

taking all boarders of the bandwagon now 

That would be a classic overthinking it move 

[candyman93]

Green can shoot better than Lavine.

 

His ceiling is Booker / Ray Allen.

[Bonanza23]

3 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Hot take:

I would have taken Ja over Zion. I said it before the draft and 2 years later I’m still confident in that.

I was quoted as saying that I was having a hard time deciding between Ja and Zion. I ultimately decided I’d take Zion but it was super close. 

[candyman93]

Props to Booker on the final play. Dude had a amazing screen to free up Ayton.

 

 

[Bonanza23]

3 hours ago, roger murdock said:

Jalen Green will have a better career than Cade Cunningham (I feel it) and we’d be idiots to pass on him

He’s the most athletically gifted SG I’ve ever seen. He’s Randy Moss with a jump shot. He glides up and down the court and through the air. He has the quickest first step I’ve ever seen. His body control is amazing. His coordination is terrific. He has a freaky vertical. And he’s a smart player too! His passing and movement offball are underrated. He can score like crazy from 3 levels while doing it in flow of offense or forcing it if he needs to. And he’s a good kid with a work ethic. 
 

I think if he goes to a situation that features him as a #1 option as a rookie he will score more points than any rookie since Iverson, maybe since Jordan. 

 

He’s by far the best SG prospect I’ve seen since following the draft around 2005ish. His only downsides are he’s not a + defender yet and he’s skinny. 

 

Best pure scoring prospect since Durant. 
 

I think in the last 10 drafts he’s the 4th best prospect

1. AD 2. Zion 3. Cade 4. Green 

My top five in the draft in order are Mobley, Green, Cade, Suggs and Kuminga. Debating right now between Sengun and Barnes for next in line. 
 

I’m still completely giddy about getting the third pick! The top 5 I named could all end up stars in the league. 
 

But yeah Green is growing on me where’d I’d be extremely happy to get him. Big points go to him for the way he improved in the g-league against higher level players than you get in college. Hot take from me: I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if he went number one 😉

Edited June 23, 2021 by Bonanza23
Fixed dumb grammar

[brownie man]

1 hour ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

That would be a classic overthinking it move 

How? He’s the youngest one left, 2 way talent, and has a more complete game than Green. 

I watch Green he’s a scorer for sure, but on the defensive end I don’t see anything special, and he isn’t natural getting players around him involved. 
 

Kuminga brings just as much talent with a skill set we are void of  

 

[AkronsWitness]

2 hours ago, brownie man said:

How? He’s the youngest one left, 2 way talent, and has a more complete game than Green. 

I watch Green he’s a scorer for sure, but on the defensive end I don’t see anything special, and he isn’t natural getting players around him involved. 
 

Kuminga brings just as much talent with a skill set we are void of  

 

Kuminga is similar to Okoro as a prospect. Both have similar strengths and weaknesses, but the main reason I would avoid him is that the Cavs simply cannot afford another player on this roster who has a jumper that is under construction. He only shot 36% from the floor a 24% from 3pt range in the G-League.

Adding that type of offensive efficiency to the 28th ranked offense is a disaster. Kuminga is more of a projection based on his raw ability and size than he is a sure thing.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by AkronsWitness

[Rod Johnson]

22 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

I did a lot of reading up on Green and after I did it sort of scared me.

Positives- #1 recruit in the country. Experience playing at higher level. Score from anywhere. All offense. Insanely explosive.

Negatives- No defense. Poor court awareness and play recognition. Poor facilitator. Compounds a lot of problems we already have.

Basically, he's all offense and no defense. Because he is so raw and doesn't do anything else well besides score, it's going to be difficult for him to find ways to contribute if he's not scoring in bunches. Relies too much currently on "out-athleting" his opponents which he he won't do at the next level. 

Some were concerned that he requires a lot more development than people make it out to be and it will be a long development. Green compares to Zach Lavine who took 7 years to grow from raw athlete into competent NBA player. 

However, if it all comes together for him and he is able to adjust and grow--he will be a great scoring guard like Zach Lavine/Devin Booker currently are.

It's a gamble though, but he's far from a 5-tool prospect. He's extremely strong in 1-2 areas but extremely weak in about 4 others.

 

I think you're underrating Green's skill.  He can use finesse to finish around the rim on top of being an amazing athlete, he's already a good 3 point shooter, he's a good free throw shooter which in theory means he has the ability to develop an even more reliable shot.  He isn't a good facilitator, but he operates on offense a lot better without the ball in his hands than Sexton does.

I don't think he's as bad defensively as you portray him either.  He should be able to add some strength so big guards won't body him as easily, he's got elite quickness to stick with people, and he probably wasn't expected to compete much on that end until last season.  He won't be giving up 4 inches at the 2 so I think he'd be a big  improvement over Sexton after his first season.

I think the Cavs spacing issues on offense are a bigger problem than their defense.  If he becomes good at catch and shoot 3's I think he and Garland would be lethal. Mobley would instantly help our defense, but teams are going to pack the paint against a Mobley at the 4 lineup, and I don't think Okoro-Sexton-Garland are going to make them pay for it.

But if you're sold that Mobley will be a good outside shooter in the NBA, and I'm not saying he won't be, I can see the infatuation.  I'm pretty stoked we are guaranteed either of them unless we overthink it.  Taking Kaminga at pick 3 would be insane.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Rod Johnson

[Rod Johnson]

7 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Those are 3 things Ive read that are knocks against him. That he is essentially Zach Lavine with worse explosion off the dribble and lacks any real basketball ability outside of being a talented scorer with a high vertical

But hey, it sounds like he has a incredible ceiling if things break right for him. What the hell do I know

I just have no idea how he fits in a already crowded guard rotation with Garland/Sexton/Okoro/Green. Those would be 4 of the Cavs 'core' pieces playing the same 2 positions unless Okoro grows 4" this offseason.

Im not keen on forcing Okoro to play SF when he showed last year he is not in the same height/weight class as guys like Kawhi, Siakam, Brown, Tatum, LeBron, Butler and others hes asked to guard every night. Its setting him up for failure trying to make a crowded lockerroom fit. Im also sure he doesnt like getting physically abused every night by guys who have 25lbs and 3" in height on him.

I agree about Okoro but the solution to that in the draft outside of Cade would be Kaminga, and that's a reach which hinders our offense.  Okoro will probably be playing a ton of 3 this year no matter what we do. 

[big poppa pump]

8 hours ago, Rod Johnson said:

I think you're underrating Green's skill.  He can use finesse to finish around the rim on top of being an amazing athlete, he's already a good 3 point shooter, he's a good free throw shooter which in theory means he has the ability to develop an even more reliable shot.  He isn't a good facilitator, but he operates on offense a lot better without the ball in his hands than Sexton does.

I don't think he's as bad defensively as you portray him either.  He should be able to add some strength so big guards won't body him as easily, he's got elite quickness to stick with people, and he probably wasn't expected to compete much on that end until last season.  He won't be giving up 4 inches at the 2 so I think he'd be a big  improvement over Sexton after his first season.

I think the Cavs spacing issues on offense are a bigger problem than their defense.  If he becomes good at catch and shoot 3's I think he and Garland would be lethal. Mobley would instantly help our defense, but teams are going to pack the paint against a Mobley at the 4 lineup, and I don't think Okoro-Sexton-Garland are going to make them pay for it.

But if you're sold that Mobley will be a good outside shooter in the NBA, and I'm not saying he won't be, I can see the infatuation.  I'm pretty stoked we are guaranteed either of them unless we overthink it.  Taking Kaminga at pick 3 would be insane.

Was reading an article (I think Terry Pluto) and it indicated that drafting Mobley could possibly mean exploring a trade of Allen.  If you assume that Mobley is a better version of Allen, and that that Mobley can't play the 4, it would make sense to trade Allen, as he is about to cost a good amount of money.  Without Mobley, it's worth it, but with him....ehhhh?

 

I like the idea of rolling the dice on Green (strangely Pluto likes Suggs more)  At the very worst with Green, you are getting an offensive beast, in a league that is all about offense.

[AkronsWitness]

2 hours ago, big poppa pump said:

Was reading an article (I think Terry Pluto) and it indicated that drafting Mobley could possibly mean exploring a trade of Allen.  If you assume that Mobley is a better version of Allen, and that that Mobley can't play the 4, it would make sense to trade Allen, as he is about to cost a good amount of money.  Without Mobley, it's worth it, but with him....ehhhh?

 

I like the idea of rolling the dice on Green (strangely Pluto likes Suggs more)  At the very worst with Green, you are getting an offensive beast, in a league that is all about offense.

Im one of the few people I guess thats extremely high on Allen. Hes 23 years old and had a ton of room to improve, not to mention he is one of the best rim protectors in the NBA.

I guess I dont see the point in drafting Mobley because we 'think' he can be better than Allen just to kick Allen out the door for nothing. We got rid of Drummond and a 1st rounder to acquire Allen. Drafting Mobley just to get rid of Allen seems like a massive waste of last years time and assets we spent to get him in the first place. 

It just seems like a lateral move.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by AkronsWitness

[buno67]

4 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Im one of the few people I guess thats extremely high on Allen. Hes 23 years old and had a ton of room to improve, not to mention he is one of the best rim protectors in the NBA.

I guess I dont see the point in drafting Mobley because we 'think' he can be better than Allen just to kick Allen out the door for nothing. We got rid of Drummond and a 1st rounder to acquire Allen. Drafting Mobley just to get rid of Allen seems like a massive waste of last years time and assets we spent to get him in the first place. 

It just seems like a lateral move.

 

Not a lateral move when Mobley has by far the higher ceiling. 
 

allen wont be nothing. they could package him. It be great to see a Allen Sexton package and picks maybe to get a legit SF