Joe Barry'd again

[OneTwoSixFive]

4 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I don't know how much 4-3, 3-4 matters these days.  We just need a DC that is balls to the wall aggressive.  Players love pinning their ears back and attacking offenses.  The passive crap just hangs players out to dry.  I did see that the Packers are blitzing at a much higher rate this year, but there always seem to be situations deficiencies that doom us, and Barry tends to be passive and revert back to bend but don't break style too often.

Yeah, it's not a lack of blitzing (I think the Packers are 5th in frequency of blitzing), it's more about his coverage decisions.

 

1 hour ago, thrILL! said:

Murphy isn’t retiring until 2025 (ugh). If we were to clean house, he’d be the one pulling the trigger, right?  I don’t want him to be the one selecting the next FO, GM and indirectly the HC. I don’t want him anywhere near those decisions and if this season really goes off the rails, I don’t want us to wait until 2025.  Can we force him to retire early if need be?

I'm not sure how much Murphy is to blame for anything. I didn't agree with him holding final choice on the hiring and firing of the head coach (over Gutekunst) and I'm not a lover of the 'silos' management choice, but I have never really wanted him gone. Also, I see no pressing reason for losing Gutekunst, which by your statement of 'cleaning house' implies.

Beyond the hiring of LaFleur (probably done in concert with Gute), I'm not convinced Murphy has any say in the hiring of coaches under LaFleur - I'd say that was on LaFleur himself.

[incognito_man]

13 hours ago, Zycho32 said:

That's the problem when you rely on stats. You tend to forget the eye test.

Eye test sucks. Stats are far superior.

GB has the 27th ranked defense in DVOA.

They are bad.

[Zycho32]

2 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Eye test sucks. Stats are far superior.

GB has the 27th ranked defense in DVOA.

They are bad.

I still make Cavemen noises when it comes to DVOA. I was referring to all the sub-20 point games allowed and whatnot.

[incognito_man]

1 minute ago, Zycho32 said:

I still make Cavemen noises when it comes to DVOA. I was referring to all the sub-20 point games allowed and whatnot.

Yep, they were against bad offenses (mostly) and DVOA captures that. 

This is a case where eye test mostly agrees with statistical analysis. They're bad and they should feel bad 

[MacReady]

Points against and DVOA combined are the best indicators. Neither alone is good enough, but if you take both of them together you get the best picture.

We’re 21st in offensive points per game and 27th in DVOA.

We have invested more talent in that side of the ball than any other team.

That points directly to coaching.

[Brit Pack]

2 hours ago, MacReady said:

We have invested more talent in that side of the ball than any other team.

That points directly to coaching.

Not necessarily, it could mean we just invested in average players and have given 2nd contracts to equally average or just above average players.

I don't see it as coaching per se, I just see it as who they are as players. I couldn't imagine these guys being on the Niners or Ravens and suddenly becoming studs. Who have we ever let out the door and went on to great things? Micah Hyde

* denotes first-rounder

Too early to say but haven't really made an impact yet
LVN* - 1 sack, PFF 62.1
Devonte Wyatt* - 3 sacks, PFF 65.1 

Emerging
Quay Walker* - 40 tackles, PFF 66.4

A waste
Eric Stokes* - injured and last year had a PFF of 53.7
Darnell Savage* - no impact stats, PFF 59.1
Keisean Nixon - PFF 55.9

Overpaid for production, living on reputation at the moment
Jaire Alexander*, no impact stats, PFF 63.5 - being available is the issue here
De'Vondre Campbell, PFF 73.9 - being available is the issue here
Kenny Clark* - 4 sacks, PFF 56.9 - he has been on a decline since he signed his contract in 2020. Was a stud in 2018, 2019 and 2020 but has been about average and dipping below that since then

Stud
Rashan Gary* - 5 sacks, PFF 88.1 - if he signs a contract could he be in Kenny territory?

Middle of the road
Preston Smith, 2 sacks, PFF 62.3

I don't see many or any of these players being game-changers on another team or being chased in a trade scenario. Or if a new coach came in would turn them around as players.

Guys who look like players regardless of the position where they were drafted and who live up to their contract and play well and this is not just PFF but the eye test as well

Good players
Rasul Douglas, 1 int, PFF 80.7
Rudy Ford, 2 int, PFF 74.9

That looks like an average collection of talent. While Gute hasn't drafted particularly amazingly, it is quite average and probably a standard hit rate compared to other GMs, he has excelled at picking up low level FAs and letting them emerge into good players. 

[Striker]

3 hours ago, Brit Pack said:

Not necessarily, it could mean we just invested in average players and have given 2nd contracts to equally average or just above average players.

I don't see it as coaching per se, I just see it as who they are as players. I couldn't imagine these guys being on the Niners or Ravens and suddenly becoming studs. Who have we ever let out the door and went on to great things? Micah Hyde

Micah Hyde and Casey Hayward showed the biggest jumps.

Evidently Oren Burks is better than we all gave him credit for. Went from PFDF grades of 44.2, 45.0, 28.6, and 53.8 with the Packers to 79.2 and 89.0 with the 49ers. He's not playing starters snaps, but the snaps he is playing he's actually effective.

Blake Martinez had a good year in his one fully healthy year with the Giants. 

Per PFF, Krys Barnes is having his best year so far with the Cardinals. Like Burks, he's not playing starters snaps but he's grading out 20-30 points higher.

[Striker]

Also, can't forget Lawrence Guy. 

[Isherwood]

9 hours ago, MacReady said:

Points against and DVOA combined are the best indicators. Neither alone is good enough, but if you take both of them together you get the best picture.

We’re 21st in offensive points per game and 27th in DVOA.

We have invested more talent in that side of the ball than any other team.

That points directly to coaching.

I said this at the time and I'll say it again and again: the Barry hire was bad from day 0. I couldn't believe he was among the group of guys getting interviewed, and I hoped it was just a desire to look at the perspective of an old guard guy in an interview and not that he had a serious shot. When we heard that it probably wasn't going to be Leonhard, I thought for sure we were hiring Evero. 

The Barry hire coming with a subsequent firing in 3-4 years was the easiest call in my lifetime as a Packers fan. An all-time dud move that should call MLF's job to the carpet, even if I otherwise think he's a decent coach. Anyone with half a brain knew it was a **** hire. What a stinker 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Isherwood

[Mazrimiv]

The offense hasn't topped 20 points since week 2.  Other than DET, GB has been in position to win every game.  But sure, let's complain about the defense.

With a semi-competent offense, this team is 5-1.  For those who insist on being mad about a season everyone knew would be a rough watch, at least focus your frustration where it belongs.  The performance of MLF's offense has been far worse than Barry's defense.

[coachbuns]

1 hour ago, Mazrimiv said:

The offense hasn't topped 20 points since week 2.  Other than DET, GB has been in position to win every game.  But sure, let's complain about the defense.

With a semi-competent offense, this team is 5-1.  For those who insist on being mad about a season everyone knew would be a rough watch, at least focus your frustration where it belongs.  The performance of MLF's offense has been far worse than Barry's defense.

Not so sure.  They played some really crappy teams with bad offenses. Granted, the offense hasn't been good but as stated often, that was to be expected.  There's been a number of games where the offense has given the team a lead late in the game and the defense couldn't hold that lead.  Missed tackles, non aggressive schemes, tissue soft zones in a bend but don't break defense .. that's on Barry.

[HighCalebR]

We are the crappy team with bad offense.

Not even playing bad complimentary football.

Crappy defense when theres ok offense. Crappy offense when there's ok defense. Little to no hope they figure things out. Because they seem to act like they have no idea what's wrong.

Currently a bottom tier team in the league. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by HighCalebR

[Mr. Fussnputz]

Should we have a bad offense, or a bad defense?

 

 

[MacReady]

14 hours ago, Brit Pack said:

Not necessarily, it could mean we just invested in average players and have given 2nd contracts to equally average or just above average players.

I don't see it as coaching per se, I just see it as who they are as players. I couldn't imagine these guys being on the Niners or Ravens and suddenly becoming studs. Who have we ever let out the door and went on to great things? Micah Hyde

* denotes first-rounder

Too early to say but haven't really made an impact yet
LVN* - 1 sack, PFF 62.1
Devonte Wyatt* - 3 sacks, PFF 65.1 

Emerging
Quay Walker* - 40 tackles, PFF 66.4

A waste
Eric Stokes* - injured and last year had a PFF of 53.7
Darnell Savage* - no impact stats, PFF 59.1
Keisean Nixon - PFF 55.9

Overpaid for production, living on reputation at the moment
Jaire Alexander*, no impact stats, PFF 63.5 - being available is the issue here
De'Vondre Campbell, PFF 73.9 - being available is the issue here
Kenny Clark* - 4 sacks, PFF 56.9 - he has been on a decline since he signed his contract in 2020. Was a stud in 2018, 2019 and 2020 but has been about average and dipping below that since then

Stud
Rashan Gary* - 5 sacks, PFF 88.1 - if he signs a contract could he be in Kenny territory?

Middle of the road
Preston Smith, 2 sacks, PFF 62.3

I don't see many or any of these players being game-changers on another team or being chased in a trade scenario. Or if a new coach came in would turn them around as players.

Guys who look like players regardless of the position where they were drafted and who live up to their contract and play well and this is not just PFF but the eye test as well

Good players
Rasul Douglas, 1 int, PFF 80.7
Rudy Ford, 2 int, PFF 74.9

That looks like an average collection of talent. While Gute hasn't drafted particularly amazingly, it is quite average and probably a standard hit rate compared to other GMs, he has excelled at picking up low level FAs and letting them emerge into good players. 

These were all very clear or very near first round picks. If that many aren’t good, that’s a reflection of coaching.

It’s literally that simple.

 

[Brit Pack]

19 minutes ago, MacReady said:

These were all very clear or very near first round picks. If that many aren’t good, that’s a reflection of coaching.

It’s literally that simple.

 

So all first round picks are studs? Or even good? 

We have drafted 8 1st rounders there:
1 x current stud
2 x former studs who got paid and not playing up to the same level
2 x too early to say
1 x emerging
2 x injured and crap

That's pretty good.

I think you are just hung up that they are first rounders and that they should be good/great players and should all be good/great at the same time.