The Good, the Bad, the Kansas City Zebras

[NYRaider]

Just now, ronjon1990 said:

They very objectively have not. 

 

So how did we have the ball with a chance to tie or take the lead on the last possession in all four losses? We stopped KC but that defensive holding penalty killed us. Then we stopped them again late in the 4th so we had a chance to win and couldn't capitalize. We stopped the Titans late and had a chance to tie the game in the final seconds. We stopped the Cardinals in OT and had a chance to win the game. We stopped the Chargers late in the 4th and had a chance to tie the game against them as well. 

[dante9876]

51 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

They've played (scoring offense): Titans (23rd), Panthers (24th), Cowboys (25th), Bears (27th), Packers (22nd)

 

And we have played good teams. But my issue is that we have let every team we played either get very close to their avg or way above it ten and Broncos aren't powerhouses. They both scored above way their avgs. Cardinals also scored above their averages. Chargers hit it on the dot and kc missed by 1 point.  He isn't doing a good job. Giants defense are doing what they suppose to do vs bad offenses, our defense isn't even doing that. 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

This is just 100% false. 2020 his defense kept the Giants alive. 9th in scoring and guys like Martinez, Peppers and Leo had career years. 

The hyperbole when this team loses is ridiculous. Get Maxx some interior help and the defense will be fine. 

This name being tossed about in this context alone makes your argument worthless.

Not a single Giants fan wanted Martinez back because he was damn near an animated speed bump. 

In 2019, Graham's Dolphins were dead last in scoring D, falling 5 spots from 2018. In 2020 after Graham left, they jumped to 4th. 

He came into New York in 2020 and the Giants ranked 9th. In 2021, they fell to 23rd. Graham leaves, they're back up to 9th this year. 

In 2017, GB was 18th against the run. In 2018, Graham was named ILB coach and run game coordinator. They fell to 23rd. He leaves and within 2 seasons they're back to back top 10 vs the run. 

In 2015, the Patriots were 10th vs the run. Graham is named DL coach in 2016. They bump up to 4th that year before sliding to 20th in 2017. Graham leaves, they jump back to 7th. 

That isn't hyperbole, it's fact. 

We were 12th vs the pass last year. We're 25th now. 

New York in 2019? 28th. 2020 and 21? 15th. Graham left and they're now currently 8th. 

Miami in 2019? 27th. Graham left and they go up to 22 and then to 16th.

 

Numbers you don't like don't make it hyperbole, they make it inconvenient to defend against. Teams show marked improvement once Graham is gone. Like clockwork. The only time Graham has truly improved a D and it showed was the Giants average pass D aided by playing bad NFCE QBs twice a year. 

 

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[NYRaider]

16 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

And we have played good teams. But my issue is that we have let every team we played either get very close to their avg or way above it ten and Broncos aren't powerhouses. They both scored above way their avgs. Cardinals also scored above their averages. Chargers hit it on the dot and kc missed by 1 point.  He isn't doing a good job. Giants defense are doing what they suppose to do vs bad offenses, our defense isn't even doing that. 

Would you rather play Herbert, Kyler, Wilson and Mahomes or Fields, Rush, Rodgers, and Mayfield?

Kyler, Wilson, and Mahomes got 3 of the biggest contracts in NFL history for a reason. Fields, Rush, and Mayfield might not even be in the league for very much longer, lol. 

[ronjon1990]

45 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

So how did we have the ball with a chance to tie or take the lead on the last possession in all four losses? We stopped KC but that defensive holding penalty killed us. Then we stopped them again late in the 4th so we had a chance to win and couldn't capitalize. We stopped the Titans late and had a chance to tie the game in the final seconds. We stopped the Cardinals in OT and had a chance to win the game. We stopped the Chargers late in the 4th and had a chance to tie the game against them as well. 

We also let every single one of our opponents back into games. 

This isn't the Special Olympics, I'm not impressed by a spurt or two of solid efforts.

 

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

We also let every single one of our opponents back into games. 

This isn't the Special Olympics, I'm not impressed by a spurt or two of solid efforts.

So we should be holding teams to 7 ppg with 0 DTs and Abram as a starter? lol 

Again we've given up 23, 24, 23, 24, and 30 in 5 games this season. Not elite but we've gotten stops in clutch time in all four of our losses. We completely shut down the Chargers/Titans in the second half, defense wasn't great against the Cardinals or Chiefs but still got a big stop in both games to give us a chance to win the game. Not sure what more you can ask for tbh. 

The Chargers, Dolphins, and Chiefs defenses are all about on par with ours and it hasn't stopped them from winning games.

Edited October 11, 2022 by NYRaider

[NYRaider]

17 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Numbers you don't like don't make it hyperbole, they make it inconvenient to defend against. Teams show marked improvement once Graham is gone. Like clockwork. The only time Graham has truly improved a D and it showed was the Giants average pass D aided by playing bad NFCE QBs twice a year. 

Are we really going to crown the Giants defense after playing arguably the softest schedule in the league so far this season? 

[Devilshark69]

3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I thought Chandler Jones looked good last night.

Cmon ny did you read my other post? Yes he had a good game. 1 outta 5. For what we’re paying him, are we getting good returns? No sir. Imo at least.

[ronjon1990]

12 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Are we really going to crown the Giants defense after playing arguably the softest schedule in the league so far this season? 

Season isn't over, so no not entirely. 

But they're playing far better than they were. 

Why anyone is still trying to defend the Graham hire is pure blind absurdity. 

It was, at best, a very optimistic heavy hire with little actual substance. 

People crowing about him being a rising star a few years ago like it means anything now is laughable. If he was so solid, why has be bounced around so much and why has he been gifted one position after the next by someone in the Patriots circle? Dude's career is a charity case at this point. 

Flores, Judge, JMD. I'm surprised Matt Patricia didn't hire him for a stint. If Graham didn't have his Patriots connection, do you honestly believe he's a DC in the league right now? 

[Geezy]

encouraged that McD has adjusted the offense to cater to our strength, which is running the ball. The OL is much better in the run game and Josh has looked great. 

We took it to the Chiefs in Arrowhead, and it didnt seem flukey. Its a shame we dropped some other winnable games so this one still stings, but although were 1-4, we super close. We need to be super focused these next two months and stack wins.  Legit have to go 5-1, 6-0 to have a shot. 

[RaidersAreOne]

Can we all just laugh for a moment that Clelin Ferrel lined up at CB?

[NYRaider]

58 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Season isn't over, so no not entirely. 

But they're playing far better than they were. 

Why anyone is still trying to defend the Graham hire is pure blind absurdity. 

It was, at best, a very optimistic heavy hire with little actual substance. 

People crowing about him being a rising star a few years ago like it means anything now is laughable. If he was so solid, why has be bounced around so much and why has he been gifted one position after the next by someone in the Patriots circle? Dude's career is a charity case at this point. 

Flores, Judge, JMD. I'm surprised Matt Patricia didn't hire him for a stint. If Graham didn't have his Patriots connection, do you honestly believe he's a DC in the league right now? 

I'm not defending it, I'm just saying it's way too early to say that the Giants defense is improved without him when it's a small sample size against borderline NFL starters for the most part. We've had two DC's that just stuck to their guns in Guenther and Bradley. I think one of Graham's issues is that he just thinks too far outside the box, like the Ferrell at CB strategy, wtf was that, lol. 

[jpaulthe1st]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

Would you rather play Herbert, Kyler, Wilson and Mahomes or Fields, Rush, Rodgers, and Mayfield?

Kyler, Wilson, and Mahomes got 3 of the biggest contracts in NFL history for a reason. Fields, Rush, and Mayfield might not even be in the league for very much longer, lol. 

You’ve successfully managed to seamlessly debate an opponent on both sides of this argument. Job well done 

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

This name being tossed about in this context alone makes your argument worthless.

Not a single Giants fan wanted Martinez back because he was damn near an animated speed bump. 

In 2019, Graham's Dolphins were dead last in scoring D, falling 5 spots from 2018. In 2020 after Graham left, they jumped to 4th. 

He came into New York in 2020 and the Giants ranked 9th. In 2021, they fell to 23rd. Graham leaves, they're back up to 9th this year. 

In 2017, GB was 18th against the run. In 2018, Graham was named ILB coach and run game coordinator. They fell to 23rd. He leaves and within 2 seasons they're back to back top 10 vs the run. 

In 2015, the Patriots were 10th vs the run. Graham is named DL coach in 2016. They bump up to 4th that year before sliding to 20th in 2017. Graham leaves, they jump back to 7th. 

That isn't hyperbole, it's fact. 

We were 12th vs the pass last year. We're 25th now. 

New York in 2019? 28th. 2020 and 21? 15th. Graham left and they're now currently 8th. 

Miami in 2019? 27th. Graham left and they go up to 22 and then to 16th.

 

Numbers you don't like don't make it hyperbole, they make it inconvenient to defend against. Teams show marked improvement once Graham is gone. Like clockwork. The only time Graham has truly improved a D and it showed was the Giants average pass D aided by playing bad NFCE QBs twice a year. 

 

First off, let's see where the team ranks at the end of the year. Not take a 5 game subsection against 3 of the best QBs in the game. 

Second. You are missing a lot of context. Sept. 2019, Miami trade their all-pro safety to the Steelers and went full tank. 2021 Giants had a ton injuries and the offense was putrid. 2018 Packers had an entirely different defensive staff come in and McCarthy was fired in season. 2016 Graham was working for the Giants, so not sure what you're trying to say there.

I see ups and downs in his coaching career. Consistent with most coaches depending on a variety of factors. Injuries, attrition, schedule, etc.