How 🔥 is McDaniels Seat?

[NYRaider]

9 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I'll be the odd man out here.... I believe in this group. If, and it's a big if Mark Davis can be patient, I truly think Ziegler and his guys in the FO can build something competitive long term here. They have some good talent evaluators and I buy into their vision of getting culture fits and building homegrown talent. 

McDaniels is a wild card. If they can identify a QB who has a good working relationship with him, I think he will excel as a play caller. He needs that trust in his QB first to be his extension on the field. 

I expect a marked improvement this season as they identify their fits and fill the holes accordingly.

2024 will be the year it comes together fully if Davis doesn't knee jerk and blow it up expecting the world in 2023.

What has the new regime done to inspire confidence? They made the wrong decision on Jacobs 5th year option, paid Carr/Waller/Renfrow/Chandler and they all regressed, didn't really find any good value FA signings, and completely mismanaged the Carr contract/trade situation. The only good move they've made was trading for Adams and locking up Crosby long term.

Edited February 3, 2023 by NYRaider

[big_palooka]

14 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

What has the new regime done to inspire confidence? They made the wrong decision on Jacobs 5th year option, paid Carr/Waller/Renfrow/Chandler and they all regressed, didn't really find any good value FA signings, and completely mismanaged the Carr contract/trade situation. The only good move they've made was trading for Adams and locking up Crosby long term.

Jacobs - that was not the wrong decision. He did not earn that and nobody argued it. Now they can franchise him for 10 mil vs. paying 8 on his option. It was a smart play

Waller/Refrow - Both had a string of injuries. Rarely on the field together. Let's see what year 2 brings. When healthy, they both played just fine. 

Chandler - is what it is. Every GM misses on FA signings. They are 50/50 at best.

Carr - They fully intended on him being their QB long term. Carr failed them, not the other way around. This looks bad in hindsight, but it's because Carr is a mid QB who couldn't the culture. 

 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, big_palooka said:

Jacobs - that was not the wrong decision. He did not earn that and nobody argued it. Now they can franchise him for 10 mil vs. paying 8 on his option. It was a smart play

Waller/Refrow - Both had a string of injuries. Rarely on the field together. Let's see what year 2 brings. When healthy, they both played just fine. 

Chandler - is what it is. Every GM misses on FA signings. They are 50/50 at best.

Carr - They fully intended on him being their QB long term. Carr failed them, not the other way around. This looks bad in hindsight, but it's because Carr is a mid QB who couldn't the culture. 

The Jacobs situation is a wash now because they can bring him back on the franchise tag. Their lack of commitment to Jacobs in comparison to their commitments to Waller/Renfrow shows poor player evaluation though. As did their decision to carry so many RBs. 

Renfrow didn't look great and there wasn't really a ton of pressure to get a deal done. There was a multi-year sample size of him just being above average when he was a secondary option. 

We reportedly could've traded Carr for 2 first round picks last offseason. Did Carr do anything this year that was drastically different than his past performance? Not really. The fact that they gave him a NTC and gave themselves a February 15th deadline to move on basically ensured we won't get any value for him.

[big_palooka]

47 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

We reportedly could've traded Carr for 2 first round picks last offseason. Did Carr do anything this year that was drastically different than his past performance? Not really. The fact that they gave him a NTC and gave themselves a February 15th deadline to move on basically ensured we won't get any value for him.

Had his worst statistical performance since his rookie season.

The fact they didn't trade Carr and then gave him that contract was them going all in on Carr. Carr didn't hold up his end unfortunately. 

[NYRaider]

Just now, big_palooka said:

Had his worst statistical performance since his rookie season.

The fact they didn't trade Carr and then gave him that contract was them going all in on Carr. Carr didn't hold up his end unfortunately. 

But did Carr really play significantly worse or different than he has for most of his career? His TD/INT numbers were basically identical this year and in 2021. 

It was just poor evaluation / decision making on behalf of the new regime. But this is the same group that gave out a bunch of bad deals to guys like Agholor, Jonnu, Bourne, etc. before they left the Patriots. 

[BackinBlack]

1 minute ago, big_palooka said:

Had his worst statistical performance since his rookie season.

The fact they didn't trade Carr and then gave him that contract was them going all in on Carr. Carr didn't hold up his end unfortunately. 

3rd most TDs despite 2 games benched, think 4k yards is in question with 2 extra games, most likely his most picks in a season with 2 more games too
But, he also I dont think lost a fumble, which is a massive step forward for carr. 
So his turnovers I think could be around normal for him (but fumbles dont count to QBR I believe)

For a guy who has routinely struggled his first year in a system, I dont know why you sign him to  a contract that essentially locks in major value after 1 year. Renfrow / Waller going down didnt help either. 

I just dont understand why they did the contract the way they did 

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, BackinBlack said:

I just dont understand why they did the contract the way they did 

I'm assuming Carr's camp was adamant about how the deal was structured because of the low GTD money.

[BackinBlack]

12 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I'm assuming Carr's camp was adamant about how the deal was structured because of the low GTD money.

yea the GTD is way lower than I thought. . . really starting to think we shouldve just kept him for 23 at 33 mil,
and then cut him in 24 for 7 mil dead cap hit?
I thought there was way more guaranteed for his 24 season after the 15th. 

Really think Tom B was the plan, and they benched Carr to show Brady we were ready, and then Brady retired lol. 

[Nightmare]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

2024 will be the year it comes together fully if Davis doesn't knee jerk and blow it up expecting the world in 2023. 

That’s a huge “if”. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he forced Ziegler to go all in for Rodgers, giving up loads of draft capital and mortgaging the future in the process.

FWIW, I do agree with you on Ziegler. There’s something about him that makes me feel like he wants to do things the right way, and I’d be pretty confident that given an appropriate amount of time that he would. McDaniels I am far less convinced about being the right HC to see that vision through, though.

And ultimately, on top of that uncertainty, I’m even less convinced that Mark Davis won’t ruin the whole thing anyway.

[NYRaider]

34 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

That’s a huge “if”. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he forced Ziegler to go all in for Rodgers, giving up loads of draft capital and mortgaging the future in the process.

FWIW, I do agree with you on Ziegler. There’s something about him that makes me feel like he wants to do things the right way, and I’d be pretty confident that given an appropriate amount of time that he would. McDaniels I am far less convinced about being the right HC to see that vision through, though.

And ultimately, on top of that uncertainty, I’m even less convinced that Mark Davis won’t ruin the whole thing anyway.

Ziegler went on a huge spending spree during his final offseason with New England and almost none of the deals worked out for them.

[Geezy]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I'll be the odd man out here.... I believe in this group. If, and it's a big if Mark Davis can be patient, I truly think Ziegler and his guys in the FO can build something competitive long term here. They have some good talent evaluators and I buy into their vision of getting culture fits and building homegrown talent. 

McDaniels is a wild card. If they can identify a QB who has a good working relationship with him, I think he will excel as a play caller. He needs that trust in his QB first to be his extension on the field. 

I expect a marked improvement this season as they identify their fits and fill the holes accordingly.

2024 will be the year it comes together fully if Davis doesn't knee jerk and blow it up expecting the world in 2023. 

 

 

 

I feel you, and I want to believe. But this year we’re preaching home grown talent. But last season we traded two top picks, which is it? I know Mayock left the cupboard bare, but if that’s your vision, why is your first move trading and giving a huge contract to a 30 year old WR? Feel like we’re saying one thing and doing the other. 

[Geezy]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Jacobs - that was not the wrong decision. He did not earn that and nobody argued it. Now they can franchise him for 10 mil vs. paying 8 on his option. It was a smart play

Waller/Refrow - Both had a string of injuries. Rarely on the field together. Let's see what year 2 brings. When healthy, they both played just fine. 

Chandler - is what it is. Every GM misses on FA signings. They are 50/50 at best.

Carr - They fully intended on him being their QB long term. Carr failed them, not the other way around. This looks bad in hindsight, but it's because Carr is a mid QB who couldn't the culture. 

 

The boy wonder OC doesn’t take any blame for a QB that regressed? He had 8 years of film on Carr, he even said Carr was part of why he wanted the job. Again, saying one thing and doing another. The contradictions are frustrating. 

[Nightmare]

52 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Ziegler went on a huge spending spree during his final offseason with New England and almost none of the deals worked out for them.

You mean Bill Belichick did?

Maybe Ziegler made some recommendations, but everything that happens in New England personnel-wise is signed off by Bill.

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, Geezy said:

The boy wonder OC doesn’t take any blame for a QB that regressed? He had 8 years of film on Carr, he even said Carr was part of why he wanted the job. Again, saying one thing and doing another. The contradictions are frustrating. 

Was boy wonder out there missing wide open WRs? Folding under pressure? Checking down vs. letting plays develop?

By all accounts, Carr couldn't take tough coaching. It is what it is. JMD wanted more out of him, just like Gruden wanted more out of him. Carr doesn't have another level. Learned that the hard way. 

[Geezy]

10 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Was boy wonder out there missing wide open WRs? Folding under pressure? Checking down vs. letting plays develop?

By all accounts, Carr couldn't take tough coaching. It is what it is. JMD wanted more out of him, just like Gruden wanted more out of him. Carr doesn't have another level. Learned that the hard way. 

Did he just start doing this, was he all of a sudden not good enough? Why give him an extension? I don’t get it. especially a contract that handcuffs the Raiders like it does. Makes zero sense, now we will probably cut Carr or get Pennies on the dollar, then over pay on another QB with warts. Same **** show, just different guys making the calls.