How 🔥 is McDaniels Seat?

[jimkelly02]

1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said:

Raiders rebuild classic

Oh yeah… but it’s even worse then that cuz we’re not 2 seasons from that point lol.

I think the handling of the Carr situation is the beginning of a 4-6 year downturn for us.  It’s exactly why I always said I’d keep Carr until something better came along.  It’s not just the Carr thing for me, in fact it’s just the last straw.  We hired a bad coach, Ziegler has gotten a C- grade from me so far.

My test for Zeigler’s competency was his ability to net a 2+3 for Carr and land Rodgers for something outside of #7.  That’s not going to happen.  
 

If we had any smarts we’d trade Adams, Waller, Renfrow, tag and trade Jacobs for picks in both ‘23 and ‘24 and basically tank next season, fire McD and actually hire a credible coach and GM next go around.  Draft a QB in ‘24 when we have a new coach, in the mean time clean up the cap situation and fill roster with young, cheap players.

but that will never happen because McD and Ziegler will try to keep their jobs and sacrifice future cap and draft resources in doing so.

[drfrey13]

3 hours ago, G said:

Watched a little of SB pre-stuff talking about 'coaching' (X's and O's/ players coaches etc) and Jimmy Johnson talking about being a dictator on the field (winning is all that matters) but knowing players off the field so that they'd run through a wall for you... Josh MCDaniels really doesn't seem like the kind of coach players would run through a wall for. After Denver that was obvious and BB was the coach players believed in and Josh was the X's and O's guy for the Pats. The moment I changed the channel I realized were screwed for a long time. UGHHH...Hope I'm wrong...

It is so weird that people like JMD and KNJ can get hired when they say stuff like I am not a cheerleader or I do not know much about Xs and Os.  Together maybe they would make a good coach.  You have to at least be competent in both areas.

[Jeremy408]

3 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Oh yeah… but it’s even worse then that cuz we’re not 2 seasons from that point lol.

I think the handling of the Carr situation is the beginning of a 4-6 year downturn for us.  It’s exactly why I always said I’d keep Carr until something better came along.  It’s not just the Carr thing for me, in fact it’s just the last straw.  We hired a bad coach, Ziegler has gotten a C- grade from me so far.

My test for Zeigler’s competency was his ability to net a 2+3 for Carr and land Rodgers for something outside of #7.  That’s not going to happen.  
 

If we had any smarts we’d trade Adams, Waller, Renfrow, tag and trade Jacobs for picks in both ‘23 and ‘24 and basically tank next season, fire McD and actually hire a credible coach and GM next go around.  Draft a QB in ‘24 when we have a new coach, in the mean time clean up the cap situation and fill roster with young, cheap players.

but that will never happen because McD and Ziegler will try to keep their jobs and sacrifice future cap and draft resources in doing so.

I mean I knew from the moment they hired Josh McDaniels they were gonna get rid of Derek Carr. Just based on the previous pattern i’ve not just him but all previous patriots guys they always come in and then destabilize the team. it’s kind of required for the patriots way to work that they automatically rebuild the team. Because it’s all about getting there guys. I would’ve been fine with us if the Patriots way actually works. the problem is that it’s been proven historically not to work and we’re just seeing that for the first time on our team right now

[drfrey13]

5 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Oh yeah… but it’s even worse then that cuz we’re not 2 seasons from that point lol.

I think the handling of the Carr situation is the beginning of a 4-6 year downturn for us.  It’s exactly why I always said I’d keep Carr until something better came along.  It’s not just the Carr thing for me, in fact it’s just the last straw.  We hired a bad coach, Ziegler has gotten a C- grade from me so far.

My test for Zeigler’s competency was his ability to net a 2+3 for Carr and land Rodgers for something outside of #7.  That’s not going to happen.  
 

If we had any smarts we’d trade Adams, Waller, Renfrow, tag and trade Jacobs for picks in both ‘23 and ‘24 and basically tank next season, fire McD and actually hire a credible coach and GM next go around.  Draft a QB in ‘24 when we have a new coach, in the mean time clean up the cap situation and fill roster with young, cheap players.

but that will never happen because McD and Ziegler will try to keep their jobs and sacrifice future cap and draft resources in doing so.

Can I give this 5 likes?  Trading everyone would be tough but this is exactly why I said last offseason the best decision they could make is to sit on their hands and see how everyone performs in the new system and get some young talent.  I said the team could be a contender in 2024-25 if they made good decisions.  I have also said we are not dethroning the Cheifs next year.  We need to have an I for the future and contend in a few years.

[drfrey13]

3 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

I mean I knew from the moment they hired Josh McDaniels they were gonna get rid of Derek Carr. Just based on the previous pattern i’ve not just him but all previous patriots guys they always come in and then destabilize the team. it’s kind of required for the patriots way to work that they automatically rebuild the team. Because it’s all about getting there guys. I would’ve been fine with us if the Patriots way actually works. the problem is that it’s been proven historically not to work and we’re just seeing that for the first time on our team right now

I gave my tinfoil had perspective months ago and it was that JMD was trying to sabotage Carr because Davis forced him to keep Carr when he was hired.  A lot of people told me that we would be getting rid of JMD before Davis would even think about getting rid of Carr.

[jimkelly02]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

I mean I knew from the moment they hired Josh McDaniels they were gonna get rid of Derek Carr. Just based on the previous pattern i’ve not just him but all previous patriots guys they always come in and then destabilize the team. it’s kind of required for the patriots way to work that they automatically rebuild the team. Because it’s all about getting there guys. I would’ve been fine with us if the Patriots way actually works. the problem is that it’s been proven historically not to work and we’re just seeing that for the first time on our team right now

Your absolutely right.  
Why I really hate McD is 1) he has a proven track record of not being a genuine good person and leader 2) he never owns and takes responsibility for things 3) he doesn’t have genuine relationships with players

had he come in and dismantled the team and said let’s be honest this isn’t a team built for anything sustainable I’ll own being the bad guy short term but I’ll prove to you in 2 years I was right.  Instead he said he loves Carr, this isn’t a rebuild, etc.  then when things don’t work out he always has a media guy who uses to pump his narrative to in exchange for access.  It’s such a snake way to be.

 

[Jeremy408]

1 minute ago, jimkelly02 said:

Your absolutely right.  
Why I really hate McD is 1) he has a proven track record of not being a genuine good person and leader 2) he never owns and takes responsibility for things 3) he doesn’t have genuine relationships with players

had he come in and dismantled the team and said let’s be honest this isn’t a team built for anything sustainable I’ll own being the bad guy short term but I’ll prove to you in 2 years I was right.  Instead he said he loves Carr, this isn’t a rebuild, etc.  then when things don’t work out he always has a media guy who uses to pump his narrative to in exchange for access.  It’s such a snake way to be.

 

Yeah this is the first year we’re halfway through the season I stopped watching press conferences and stuff that the beat writer say because it’s all just PR nonsense. I think even though they were signs before, everyone is finally realizing that the reality is the FO doesn’t Really know what it’s doing

[jimkelly02]

5 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

 I said the team could be a contender in 2024-25 if they made good decisions.  I have also said we are not dethroning the Cheifs next year.  We need to have an I for the future and contend in a few years.

Your onto something very major there… 

I’m not a super elegant writer but to me it’s a case of “you don’t bring a knife to a gun fight”.  It’s not hard to see what it’ll take to succeed KC.  We have to build our team with a long term plan to be better then they are.  

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I gave my tinfoil had perspective months ago and it was that JMD was trying to sabotage Carr because Davis forced him to keep Carr when he was hired.  A lot of people told me that we would be getting rid of JMD before Davis would even think about getting rid of Carr.

10 Likes right here. 

McDaniels had one goal: keep HIS job and reputation. 

If Carr lit it up, McDaniels could have rode him the way he did Brady. 

If Carr didn't, he could scapegoat things with a QB that already had a murky relationship with the organization. 

I believe at the start of the year, Josh tried to make it work. When he realized he couldn't actually coach, things went to utter **** amd became directionless. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall in the locker room. I don't buy it was just McDaniels ripping into Carr amd Carr being upset about it. I think he did so to deflect the heat, and I think people inside recognize that. Like with Myles Jack and Trevor Lawrence lavishing praise on Urban Meyer, our guys will smile and nod and say whatever keeps them in good graces. But I don't think for a minute anyone is buying into Josh McDaniels as our HC solution for the long run.

You'd have to be a fool or Pat Graham's mistress like Big Palooka to buy into what this staff and franchise are doing ar this point. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

The mismanagement of arguably our most valuable asset Imo is enough to get someone fired. I thought at the very least this new regime would manage our assets better than the last ones. So far sos

[Jeremy408]

3 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

The mismanagement of arguably our most valuable asset Imo is enough to get someone fired. I thought at the very least this new regime would manage our assets better than the last ones. So far sos

Lol that's a very good point. We got nothing for the quarterbacks is probably going to be the hottest on the market. I never thought of it that way.

[big_palooka]

13 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I gave my tinfoil had perspective months ago and it was that JMD was trying to sabotage Carr because Davis forced him to keep Carr when he was hired.  A lot of people told me that we would be getting rid of JMD before Davis would even think about getting rid of Carr.

This holds no weight because if that was the case, no way DZ extends Carr and gives him that contract. 

The contract was built as if Carr was the starter going forward. Carr didn't elevate his play, then got in his feels because he was being called out and thankfully they recognized a mistake and moved on. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

6 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Lol that's a very good point. We got nothing for the quarterbacks is probably going to be the hottest on the market. I never thought of it that way.

People want to blame grudock and I get it but they left carr arguably worth at least a first and some change on a great mf contract. A easy trade And a Easy way to start a new regime with some picks to start with.

At least grudock blew this up and got picks for players.

Jmd and ziegs was playing on the fence too long and like a wise man told me you play Both sides of the fence too long you gonna lose everything. Either crap or get off the pot.

[jpaulthe1st]

52 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

People want to blame grudock and I get it but they left carr arguably worth at least a first and some change on a great mf contract. A easy trade And a Easy way to start a new regime with some picks to start with.

At least grudock blew this up and got picks for players.

Jmd and ziegs was playing on the fence too long and like a wise man told me you play Both sides of the fence too long you gonna lose everything. Either crap or get off the pot.

Ziegler and McDaniels trading Carr straight away sounds good on the surface but look at how half this forum (and an even larger percentage of the casual fan base) reacted when they benched Carr for logical reasons. The entire fan base would have been in an uproar and out for blood before the offseason even started. 

 
For some reason this fan base has Stockholm syndrome when it comes to Carr. No matter how inconsistent he was or how poorly he played when it actually mattered he was lauded for being “loyal”. Never mind that he was very generously compensated and never forced to actually compete for his job for 9 years. Never mind that the team did everything possible to support him with an elite line and skill position players (at the expense of the defense).

It’s sad that we are so beaten down as a franchise that we cling on to mediocrity. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by jpaulthe1st

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, jpaulthe1st said:

Ziegler and McDaniels trading Carr straight away sounds good on the surface but look at how half this forum (and an even larger percentage of the casual fan base) reacted when they benched Carr for logical reasons. The entire fan base would have been in an uproar and out for blood before the offseason even started. 

 
For some reason this fan base has Stockholm syndrome when it comes to Carr. No matter how inconsistent he was or how poorly he played when it actually mattered he was lauded for being “loyal”. Never mind that he was very generously compensated and never forced to actually compete for his job for 9 years. Never mind that the team did everything possible to support him with an elite line and skill position players (at the expense of the defense).

It’s sad that we are so beaten down as a franchise that we cling on to mediocrity. 

I hear you but as a hc and gm you Gotta have the marbles for the job to make tough decisions. Can’t be out here scared with control of a whole franchise. 
 

ziegs is learning on the fly and I don’t know if we can afford more of his mistakes