How 🔥 is McDaniels Seat?

[Totty]

35 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Again, why is everything so black and white with you? It's always gotta be I'm right, you're wrong with you people.

You'rer hatred for this regime from day 1 blinds you to any positives and optimism.

McDaniels was not my favorite for the job. I would be surprised if he makes it to year 3 honestly. But I'm a Raider fan and going to hope he proves people wrong. 

Everything has been mostly positive from the players. They are bought in. He deserves a shot with more of the types he is looking for. 

I'll be the first to say I hated this duo (moreso McDaniels) since the start.  And it's been a failure so far.  Are we wrong to turn up the hatred further?  I don't think so.  In any situation in life of you doing like something, then you're proven right, you hate it even more.  Or cop a larger attitude about it.  Are we stuck with it?  Sure.  I give McDaniels 7-8 games this season before he is gone.  Unless of course he does a complete 180 and proves LITERALLY EVERYONE wrong. 

I have seen you point out several times "but the players say"..  I'm not buying it. Both McDaniels and the players are still IN the organization.  Typically they don't speak (especially going it three Patriot way) out against coaching.  Until one of the parties are gone.  Mac Jones has shown his frustration with Patricia, but that's an outlier.  The exception.  And he's also looking at being traded or let go.  BB hadn't said it in so many words but he's non committal at best with Mac.  

I think this off season with ripe picks (didn't have a 1 or 2 last year) decent free agency money and guys with time in the system will show a lot.  7-8 games in, we should know all we need to.  

I haven't wavered.  I don't want to look back and say I told you so, but I'm prepared.  

[big_palooka]

11 minutes ago, Totty said:

I'll be the first to say I hated this duo (moreso McDaniels) since the start.  And it's been a failure so far.  Are we wrong to turn up the hatred further?  I don't think so.  In any situation in life of you doing like something, then you're proven right, you hate it even more.  Or cop a larger attitude about it.  Are we stuck with it?  Sure.  I give McDaniels 7-8 games this season before he is gone.  Unless of course he does a complete 180 and proves LITERALLY EVERYONE wrong. 

I have seen you point out several times "but the players say"..  I'm not buying it. Both McDaniels and the players are still IN the organization.  Typically they don't speak (especially going it three Patriot way) out against coaching.  Until one of the parties are gone.  Mac Jones has shown his frustration with Patricia, but that's an outlier.  The exception.  And he's also looking at being traded or let go.  BB hadn't said it in so many words but he's non committal at best with Mac.  

I think this off season with ripe picks (didn't have a 1 or 2 last year) decent free agency money and guys with time in the system will show a lot.  7-8 games in, we should know all we need to.  

I haven't wavered.  I don't want to look back and say I told you so, but I'm prepared.  

I respect your candor. I think with an improved defense, things won't be perfect but much improved. His offense can score on anyone. Now they need to compliment it.  

When it come to the players, I would suggest you read Hondo's article with Crosby. He addresses the whole "what else is he suppose to say" cliché that is often used in these situation. 

Speaking of Mac Jones, interesting story here that could become relevant: 

https://www.raidersbeat.com/new-rumors-around-mac-jones-in-new-england-could-soon-become-relevant-to-the-raiders/ 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Again, why is everything so black and white with you? It's always gotta be I'm right, you're wrong with you people.

You'rer hatred for this regime from day 1 blinds you to any positives and optimism.

McDaniels was not my favorite for the job. I would be surprised if he makes it to year 3 honestly. But I'm a Raider fan and going to hope he proves people wrong. 

Everything has been mostly positive from the players. They are bought in. He deserves a shot with more of the types he is looking for. 

Inherently false statement. I've pointed out plenty of positives, they just don't hold any weight. 

Why is it so black and white with you? Can I not criticize a bad coach AND be a Raiders fan? Furthermore, there isn't a damn iota of criticism that has been levied that you haven't fought tooth and nail to disagree with. At best, pot, meet kettle. Except it's not a pot meeting kettle situation as there are facts and there are feelings and there's a huge difference between them. 

You, for whatever reason, like McDaniels in spite of the lack of factual evidence warranting such a feeling, yet you attempt to monopolize fandom as a result. 

Those of us who dislike Josh repeatedly point to facts, to which you merely say "I don't see any similarities"- the complete inverse without any substance. 

That, my friend, is called black and white logic. 

[Nightmare]

1 hour ago, Totty said:

I'll be the first to say I hated this duo (moreso McDaniels) since the start.  And it's been a failure so far.  Are we wrong to turn up the hatred further?  I don't think so.  In any situation in life of you doing like something, then you're proven right, you hate it even more.  Or cop a larger attitude about it.  Are we stuck with it?  Sure.  I give McDaniels 7-8 games this season before he is gone.  Unless of course he does a complete 180 and proves LITERALLY EVERYONE wrong. 

I have seen you point out several times "but the players say"..  I'm not buying it. Both McDaniels and the players are still IN the organization.  Typically they don't speak (especially going it three Patriot way) out against coaching.  Until one of the parties are gone.  Mac Jones has shown his frustration with Patricia, but that's an outlier.  The exception.  And he's also looking at being traded or let go.  BB hadn't said it in so many words but he's non committal at best with Mac.  

I think this off season with ripe picks (didn't have a 1 or 2 last year) decent free agency money and guys with time in the system will show a lot.  7-8 games in, we should know all we need to.  

I haven't wavered.  I don't want to look back and say I told you so, but I'm prepared.  

This is where I am with it. Didn’t want McDaniels at all, and it doesn’t look like he’ll get to see out Year 2 unless old man Brady rolls into town and takes us to the playoffs.

Ziegler seems a different deal. He’s done more good things than bad since arriving, and I would be willing to give him a chance - it feels like the two of them are a package deal though so if McDaniels is fired when we’re sitting 3-7 next season, Ziegler will probably be gone with him.

I’d love to be proven wrong on Josh. Can’t see it though.

[NYRaider]

I'm willing to give McDaniels another shot with a QB that can actually run the system. Carr even with All-Pro playmakers couldn't get it done, he's a mental midget and can't play under pressure.

[Bitty 2.0]

42 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

This is where I am with it. Didn’t want McDaniels at all, and it doesn’t look like he’ll get to see out Year 2 unless old man Brady rolls into town and takes us to the playoffs.

Ziegler seems a different deal. He’s done more good things than bad since arriving, and I would be willing to give him a chance - it feels like the two of them are a package deal though so if McDaniels is fired when we’re sitting 3-7 next season, Ziegler will probably be gone with him.

I’d love to be proven wrong on Josh. Can’t see it though.

Ziegler did good things?? What?? How??

Every FAs sucks, Ya-Sin trade, Carr's no trade clause, not picking up Jacobs options. I don't see one good thing??

[drfrey13]

56 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

Ziegler did good things?? What?? How??

Every FAs sucks, Ya-Sin trade, Carr's no trade clause, not picking up Jacobs options. I don't see one good thing??

I am not impressed with Z either.  What I do not get is oing all in year 1 and when things do not work out the company line is we where not trying to win a SB year one anyways.  No clear direction and changing their mind like Gruden.  Couple red flags for me.

[Jeremy408]

3 hours ago, Totty said:

I'll be the first to say I hated this duo (moreso McDaniels) since the start.  And it's been a failure so far.  Are we wrong to turn up the hatred further?  I don't think so.  In any situation in life of you doing like something, then you're proven right, you hate it even more.  Or cop a larger attitude about it.  Are we stuck with it?  Sure.  I give McDaniels 7-8 games this season before he is gone.  Unless of course he does a complete 180 and proves LITERALLY EVERYONE wrong. 

I have seen you point out several times "but the players say"..  I'm not buying it. Both McDaniels and the players are still IN the organization.  Typically they don't speak (especially going it three Patriot way) out against coaching.  Until one of the parties are gone.  Mac Jones has shown his frustration with Patricia, but that's an outlier.  The exception.  And he's also looking at being traded or let go.  BB hadn't said it in so many words but he's non committal at best with Mac.  

I think this off season with ripe picks (didn't have a 1 or 2 last year) decent free agency money and guys with time in the system will show a lot.  7-8 games in, we should know all we need to.  

I haven't wavered.  I don't want to look back and say I told you so, but I'm prepared.  

I have no problem being wrong personally its just history has shown that the patriots way doesn't work in general and Josh Mcdaniels hasn't worked so far specifically  

[big_palooka]

3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Inherently false statement. I've pointed out plenty of positives, they just don't hold any weight. 

Why is it so black and white with you? Can I not criticize a bad coach AND be a Raiders fan? Furthermore, there isn't a damn iota of criticism that has been levied that you haven't fought tooth and nail to disagree with. At best, pot, meet kettle. Except it's not a pot meeting kettle situation as there are facts and there are feelings and there's a huge difference between them. 

You, for whatever reason, like McDaniels in spite of the lack of factual evidence warranting such a feeling, yet you attempt to monopolize fandom as a result. 

Those of us who dislike Josh repeatedly point to facts, to which you merely say "I don't see any similarities"- the complete inverse without any substance. 

That, my friend, is called black and white logic. 

Offense produced two all-pro players. He lead an offense that made Mac Jones a pro bowl QB as a rookie. Offense showed flashes of brilliance despite injuries and and a suspect Oline. The team played hard, were in all but 2 games. 

Team has bought in and the leaders respect the message and have praised his transparency. This was not the case in Denver where he had a huge ego and didn't work well with people in the building.  

The similarities to Denver are what? Preferring his own QB which most coaches do.

[Nightmare]

2 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

Ziegler did good things?? What?? How??

Every FAs sucks, Ya-Sin trade, Carr's no trade clause, not picking up Jacobs options. I don't see one good thing??

Adams trade was undoubtedly a good move. Draft went about as well as expected without a 1st & 2nd round pick. Extended the current and future face of our defense in Crosby.

It’s easy enough to look at the Carr and Jacobs deals in hindsight but nobody seemed to complain about them at the time. I seem to remember we thought giving Carr a decent contract with a “get out” clause was exactly the right thing to do - and now we’re having to get out of it people are suddenly hating the deal. Jacobs hadn’t earned a 5th year option in most people’s eyes after his first 3 seasons - the fact he had an unbelievable 2022 doesn’t change that.

It’s not been perfect. Ya-Sin hasn’t been good, Chandler Jones has been a massive bust, and he failed to address the clearly bad OL.

But plenty of positive sounds to look at from Ziegler. If you’re not seeing one good thing then you’re quite simply choosing not to.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Nightmare

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

Ziegler did good things?? What?? How??

Every FAs sucks, Ya-Sin trade, Carr's no trade clause, not picking up Jacobs options. I don't see one good thing??

Positives:

- Traded for Adams - home run, he's an all pro

- Extended Crosby - Home run, had a career year.

- Didn't pick up a 5th year option on Jacobs who didn't deserve it (literally nobody was arguing that decision in the offseason)

- Traded Edwards for a 5th - cut by Atlanta. 

- Traded Mullen for a 7th - cut by Arizona

- Traded Gillespie for a 7th - he had 2 ST tackles

- Cut dead weight like Abram (cut by Packers) and Leatherwood (bench by the Bears)

- Traded for Ya-Sin - allowed  323 yards, 31 receptions, a touchdown and a 82.5 QBR in 55 targets. Only played in 11 games, but was a solid corner who should be resigned. Yannik was not a scheme fit and a one dimensional player who will be a FA on his 6th team next year.... see the pattern?

- Draft Parham (3rd) who was among the best run blocking G's as a rookie. Munford looks better than the 7th round selection.

- Great deals on Harmon who became a solid starter, Billings and Hollins who had a career year and is a ST ace. Hall played well enough they extended him a year. 

- Cleaned up the books for 2023 and 2024.

Negatives:

- Chandler Jones deal. Silver lining, they can get out of it after next season unscathed

- Not addressing the Oline more seriously.

To be determined:

- Extensions:  Waller/Renfrow, TBD based on injury. Both contract tradable. 

- Carr - If they get good value in trade, this is a wash.

 

 

 

[drfrey13]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Positives:

- Traded for Adams - home run, he's an all pro

- Extended Crosby - Home run, had a career year.

- Didn't pick up a 5th year option on Jacobs who didn't deserve it (literally nobody was arguing that decision in the offseason)

- Traded Edwards for a 5th - cut by Atlanta. 

- Traded Mullen for a 7th - cut by Arizona

- Traded Gillespie for a 7th - he had 2 ST tackles

- Cut dead weight like Abram (cut by Packers) and Leatherwood (bench by the Bears)

- Traded for Ya-Sin - allowed  323 yards, 31 receptions, a touchdown and a 82.5 QBR in 55 targets. Only played in 11 games, but was a solid corner who should be resigned. Yannik was not a scheme fit and a one dimensional player who will be a FA on his 6th team next year.... see the pattern?

- Draft Parham (3rd) who was among the best run blocking G's as a rookie. Munford looks better than the 7th round selection.

- Great deals on Harmon who became a solid starter, Billings and Hollins who had a career year and is a ST ace. Hall played well enough they extended him a year. 

- Cleaned up the books for 2023 and 2024.

Negatives:

- Chandler Jones deal. Silver lining, they can get out of it after next season unscathed

- Not addressing the Oline more seriously.

To be determined:

- Extensions:  Waller/Renfrow, TBD based on injury. Both contract tradable. 

- Carr - If they get good value in trade, this is a wash.

 

 

 

1. Adams:  Great player but I did not like the timing or the value of the trade.  Gave away a 1st, 2nd, and a lot of money for a player that will probably not be great once we build the team that can win.  Great move for a team that needed one more player.  Not us.

2. Completely agree here but what was the alternative?  You let his contract end.  Not a single GM in the league does this.  Could have traded him but the amount you get back would still be enough to make it a good trade if you draft well.  I will give him credit for making the easy choice.

3.  Agree here.  Most if not all where good with this choice.  Another easy decision.

4.  Good job here.  A 5th was good value.

5.  A 7th was not worth it.  Would have been the #3 and that is worth more than a 7th.

6.  Gillespie was an at least we got something move.

7.  I wish we could have got something for Abram and maybe he was worth keeping for games when we could not stop the run but I believe like most something was going on behind the scenes.  Leatherwood on the other hand should have been tried on the left side before he was cut.  Completely stupid of the staff to not try it and then get rid of him after one year.

8.  This trade is a toss up.  Could have easily kept Yannick and used some of that money to sign a FA CB.  They wanted there guy so they made room for him.  This trade without the Jones signing and I am good with it.  With the Jones signing it is just a bad move because now we are stuck with Jones and Ya-Sin is a FA.

9.  Good value on Parham and Munford.  Will have to wait and see what they can do with a full draft before I give them any grade though.

10. Decent value on role players

11.  I would not say they cleaned up the books for 2023 and 2024.  You have to remember how much cap space they have already burned through.  We could have easily had a lot more cap space with a relative small drop off in value.

Negatives

12. Yes Jones but I would not say unscathed.  Still will cost the team $34.4 million for 2 years of an old unproductive DE.

13.  This over and over again.  The complete disregard for the line and then spend so much on weapons is a huge red flag.  

TBD

14.  Complete waste on Waller unless we get a franchise QB right away.  Same thing with Adams.  It is not about their ability but rather their ability to stay good long enough for them to matter.  Renfrow you could always sign again since he is young.  I do not think he is worth  that much either.

15.  Agree with Carr.  I was against the contract but now it looks like a good idea because it allows us to tag Jacobs if needed while we look for a trade partner for Carr.

 

So fa I am not sold on Z but I am not ready to fire him either.

[NYRaider]

14 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Positives:

- Didn't pick up a 5th year option on Jacobs who didn't deserve it (literally nobody was arguing that decision in the offseason)

I was arguing for the 5th year option, lol.

[Chali21]

22 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I was arguing for the 5th year option, lol.

They weren’t even thinking of him playing in 2023. It’s why they drafted Zeus and tried a Rb by committee.  

[big_palooka]

10 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

1. Adams:  Great player but I did not like the timing or the value of the trade.  Gave away a 1st, 2nd, and a lot of money for a player that will probably not be great once we build the team that can win.  Great move for a team that needed one more player.  Not us.

Disagree with this. You want to win, get better leaders and players. It's clear they were hoping a loaded offense would offset their poor defense and it didn't work out. 

10 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

5.  A 7th was not worth it.  Would have been the #3 and that is worth more than a 7th.

Mullen was always injured. And being the #3 here speaks more of the poor talent than his ability. AZ has terrible corners and he couldn't make it there. A draft pick for a player that wasn't going to be resigned after the season is good business. 

10 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

7.  I wish we could have got something for Abram and maybe he was worth keeping for games when we could not stop the run but I believe like most something was going on behind the scenes.  Leatherwood on the other hand should have been tried on the left side before he was cut.  Completely stupid of the staff to not try it and then get rid of him after one year.

They tried to trade Abram all season, he had no value. Leatherwood was a healthy scratch for the Bears who's Oline is worse than the Raiders. He was beat pout by better players. Cutting bad players is good business. 

10 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

11.  I would not say they cleaned up the books for 2023 and 2024.  You have to remember how much cap space they have already burned through.  We could have easily had a lot more cap space with a relative small drop off in value.

They had to clear a ton of bad contracts this season. Ended up with 49.5 mil in dead cap. Now sitting with the 9th most cap space in the league before moving Carr. And some ridiculous number in 2024. 

 

10 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

8.  This trade is a toss up.  Could have easily kept Yannick and used some of that money to sign a FA CB.  They wanted there guy so they made room for him.  This trade without the Jones signing and I am good with it.  With the Jones signing it is just a bad move because now we are stuck with Jones and Ya-Sin is a FA.

Yannick wasn't a system fit. Was a FA after the season. Simple as that. Jones is just a case of a great player hitting his wall. It is what it is. Stuck for one more season, but he won't burden the cap in 2023 so it wasn't the worst to take a shot.