State of the Steelers

[43M]

On 10/27/2022 at 11:43 AM, warfelg said:

I truly believe Addison is that. 

As much as I utterly loathe the idea of spending anither high pick on WR with all the holes we have...

1)  Addison is a baller and has a nice complimentary skillset to Pickens

2)  Pickett had amazing chemistry with him and drafting him would really excite Pickett.

3) DJ and Claypool are both overrated, and while not bad, are never going to be what we hoped.

So while I certainly wouldn't dash to the podium, if we can get a new OC, and find a good OL, DL and maybe another quality pass rusher before the draft, it might be hard to pass on that opportunity.

[warfelg]

Look at how well timed those jet sweeps are.

[43M]

So, this team clearly needs work....everywhere....but what would you say is the absolute bare minimum this team needs to be a playoff team again?

For me....

New  NFL caliber OC:   This goes without saying.   Talent is an issue, but the playcalling and play designs are clearly being handled by someone who is way over his head.    He is absolutely mismanaging the talent we DO have.   This guy should never coach in the pros again.

At least two new talented offensive lineman:   Im not going to specify where since every position on our OL could be upgraded....but LT and C would be ideal upgrades.     Najee isnt great and never will be, but outside of special players, the success of the running game is primarily the result of quality run blocking.   Give that to Najee, and he could be effective ENOUGH to take pressure off the young QB.

Pass rusher:   it doesnt even necessarily have to be OLB opposite Watt.   It could be a pass rusher on the line as well.   We are seeing what no pass rush means, and we are seeing without Watt, the other talent is mediocre.    Leal could be that force going forward, but we need more.    I absolutely love Cam, but the rust is showing a bit, especially with very little talent above average to help him.

Another defensive playmaker....anywhere:    Self explanatory.   This defense lacks playmakers outside of Watt.   Steeler fans make too many excuses for Minkah.   He is not constantly dependable and more of a great supplementary player than stand alone star.    Heyward is wearing down.    Those are our top 3 guys.    Everyone else is either merely solid (Jack, Sutton)   JAGs (Edmunds, Highsmith)   or below average (Bush, Weatherspoon).

Better depth.....everywhere:    We have extremely weak depth at pretty much every position.   A failure of Tomlin and Colbert over the years that needs to be properly addressed.     

I personally believe our skill positions on offense are good enough to win with.   Maybe not THRIVE with, but its not as glaring an issue as others.   Defense IMO is in just as much trouble as the offense.   We obviously need more talent in the secondary, but a legit pass rush could make this secondary seem at least somewhat competent.   Without a pass rush, its just bad.

So, a better OC, new LT and C, another pass rusher, perhaps a playmaking CB and better depth are IMO,  the bare minimum this team needs to be relevant again.   Not necessarily Super Bowl caliber, but a team that can score more than 20 points a game and a defense that isnt blown off the field.

[3rivers]

in 2022 and beyond, the nfl is a passing game, has been for over a decade and rules favour this.  Guess what.  We don't have a single corner that could be close to an alternate for the pro bowl, not  at all.  Other teams usually have 1 good/elite CB and then on good defences, the CB2 is also good, sometimes really good .  Get with the times colbert 👺

Same with the OL, not one OL on this team is near that good. Surprisingly, the unit seems decent at times, like when Warren is in there, and they give Kenny nice pockets at times. Still, they typically can't get the crunch yards like 3rd and 2 running it. Then there are the penalties and lapses. Munchak would make this unit decent anyways IMO, really miss him - major loss as we all know. 

Harris needs the bench though. Time to let Warren take over especially after how captain najee threw the team under the bus. Strip him of the captain honour and mov on. I would trade him now as well as Johnson. Throw to Pickens all day until someone stops him, and good luck with that.  Get Claypool more passes too.

I don't think it's as bad as the record. Get Watt, Wallace back and make adjustments like above. 

Is it not obvious Pickens should clearly be the WR1 and get majority of targets?

Is it not obvious Warren should be starting over Harris as RB1?

Is it not obvious they grossly overpaid Johnson as a supposed WR1?

Is it not obvious that we all want canada fired 😅 He is terrible and is priority #1 before anything good on offence is to transpire. Until he is gone, Tomlin should be on the hotseat IMO. He has to take a stand with this team before the locker room turns into another AB Ben and  Bell saga albeit lower profile players but similar approach and conflict. It's starting already with najee - get rid of him  today before the trade deadline

[warfelg]

9 hours ago, 43M said:

So, this team clearly needs work....everywhere....but what would you say is the absolute bare minimum this team needs to be a playoff team again?

For me....

New  NFL caliber OC:   This goes without saying.   Talent is an issue, but the playcalling and play designs are clearly being handled by someone who is way over his head.    He is absolutely mismanaging the talent we DO have.   This guy should never coach in the pros again.

Good overall write up @43M and I’ll start here as there’s no disagreement.  But those statements from Kenny about studying yesterday is quite alarming too.  Is Canada not pushing it?  Is there wrong routes/blocking assignments being missed?  Or are the players not able to run the plays because the intelligence isn’t there.

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At least two new talented offensive lineman:   Im not going to specify where since every position on our OL could be upgraded....but LT and C would be ideal upgrades.     Najee isnt great and never will be, but outside of special players, the success of the running game is primarily the result of quality run blocking.   Give that to Najee, and he could be effective ENOUGH to take pressure off the young QB.

I would worry about starting with one.  I do not trust for a moment that any single OL can be told “block who’s in front of you” and they can do it without help.  But I’ve felt this for a year now, we should worry about LT and I feel like we can kick Moore into LG.  Dotson has continually regressed every year, to the point where I can’t really trust him being untested.  Green being a huge whiff as a 3rd round pick is quite the pill to swallow.  I disagree with the C spot in terms of needing upgrade right away.  Cole has been decent but hurt.  There’s bigger fish to fry here.

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Pass rusher:   it doesnt even necessarily have to be OLB opposite Watt.   It could be a pass rusher on the line as well.   We are seeing what no pass rush means, and we are seeing without Watt, the other talent is mediocre.    Leal could be that force going forward, but we need more.    I absolutely love Cam, but the rust is showing a bit, especially with very little talent above average to help him.

It’s amazing how much Watt impacts everything defensively.  Reminds me if start of the decline of Polamalu where him being out caused everything to just collapse in the secondary. We do need additional pass rush, but I would argue we need a better rotation on and out of players who do different things so that it can remain varied.  I know we play a bit more of a 3-4 base, but I want to see a 4-3 end for sub packages.  I think Highsmith/Watt, while good edge defenders, do not quite set the edge you need.  Maybe Leal can be that.  But we need more of that.

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Another defensive playmaker....anywhere:    Self explanatory.   This defense lacks playmakers outside of Watt.   Steeler fans make too many excuses for Minkah.   He is not constantly dependable and more of a great supplementary player than stand alone star.    Heyward is wearing down.    Those are our top 3 guys.    Everyone else is either merely solid (Jack, Sutton)   JAGs (Edmunds, Highsmith)   or below average (Bush, Weatherspoon).

We need a defensive playmaker at CB.  That’s what I’m going to amend.  We’re fine elsewhere.  And disagree on your statement on Minkah.  He’s a stand alone star, but he’s at the position where it takes other guys playing well to help him do that.  If you think of all the top safeties, there isn’t one who plays at a high level without a decent DB out there with them.  Just like a certain amount of LB play is dependent on DL, a certain amount of S play is dependent on DB’s.

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Better depth.....everywhere:    We have extremely weak depth at pretty much every position.   A failure of Tomlin and Colbert over the years that needs to be properly addressed. 

Don’t disagree.  I hope Khan and Weidl, especially Weidl, change the philosophy of allowing coaches to have per project picks.   That was fine and dandy when we were good and didn’t need the immediate help, but those days are gone.  We need to be picking guys in rounds 4-7 with high floors that you know you can get something out of.

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I personally believe our skill positions on offense are good enough to win with.   Maybe not THRIVE with, but its not as glaring an issue as others.   Defense IMO is in just as much trouble as the offense.   We obviously need more talent in the secondary, but a legit pass rush could make this secondary seem at least somewhat competent.   Without a pass rush, its just bad.

So, a better OC, new LT and C, another pass rusher, perhaps a playmaking CB and better depth are IMO,  the bare minimum this team needs to be relevant again.   Not necessarily Super Bowl caliber, but a team that can score more than 20 points a game and a defense that isnt blown off the field.

I think you are a bit more doom and gloom about the defense than I am.  Wallace and Sutton are solid CB2/3’s but we have no CB1.  The depth in the ‘front’ isn’t good but the injury has really changed the complexion.  I think Watt playing really makes a difference, and they have sucked because the secondary was built on the front 7 causing quick decisions, which was built on Watt causing mismatches elsewhere.

My current list of issues:

1 - Offensive coaching changes

2A - LT

2B - CB1

3 - Depth

 

[bigben07MVP]

Guys, where are we at on Kenny Pickett?

Personally for me, he’s got 8 more games left to show me something or I’ll be pounding the table for Stroud or Bryce Young. 

[MOSteelers56]

2 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

Guys, where are we at on Kenny Pickett?

Personally for me, he’s got 8 more games left to show me something or I’ll be pounding the table for Stroud or Bryce Young. 

I'm still all in on him. I think the mistakes he's making are rookie mistakes. We also only run 4 plays so that is a limiting factor. He's shown enough flashes for me to see that he can be a winning QB, maybe never a Mahomes/Allen/Rodgers guy but I think he can easily be a Burrow type.

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, bigben07MVP said:

Guys, where are we at on Kenny Pickett?

Personally for me, he’s got 8 more games left to show me something or I’ll be pounding the table for Stroud or Bryce Young. 

He’s earned a year in my eyes. Yesterday was a good day for him. Cut back on the bad throws. Stepped into the MOF throws and put more zip on them. 

[AFF]

14 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

Guys, where are we at on Kenny Pickett?

Personally for me, he’s got 8 more games left to show me something or I’ll be pounding the table for Stroud or Bryce Young. 

We will know more by end of season…I honestly think that no matter what’s he’s the starting QB in 2023 for the Steelers.

They’ll add a piece or 2 to the OL again, probably bring in a different OC and see what happens.

A wild card would be bringing in another stud WR in the draft.

[August4th]

I'll give him all of 2023 in(hopefully)a better system

[3rivers]

1 hour ago, bigben07MVP said:

Guys, where are we at on Kenny Pickett?

Personally for me, he’s got 8 more games left to show me something or I’ll be pounding the table for Stroud or Bryce Young. 

I have no issues with him AND REMEMBER , some great QB's have had bad rookie seasons. Look at the OC, running game and sometimes WR's that Pickett has🤮

The OC right now is the issue. Any half decent OC would throw to Pickens all day and then Claypool and also get Warren to RB1.  The fact that Pickett has made several nice throws under pressure  and  seems calm for a rookie is a plus. If his passes were always all over the place and wobbly then it could be a concern. Look at some of the Pickens catches - there should be more of those.

You could put any number of good to great QB's on this team and it would be a problem.  Look at Rodgers in GB, a sign the  supporting cast has an effect on the QB's perceived performance. 

 

FIRE CANADA

[3rivers]

1 hour ago, August4th said:

I'll give him all of 2023 in(hopefully)a better system

if he doesn't get a better OC in 2023,  then just don't watch until they do make that change. 

Tomlin, if he was rallying the team as a coach, would fire canada  right now and use the bye week to get ready with the new coaching OC crew. It's perfect timing, but will he. 

No way canada gets an OC job in the nfl again, I won't believe it.

[43M]

4 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

Guys, where are we at on Kenny Pickett?

Personally for me, he’s got 8 more games left to show me something or I’ll be pounding the table for Stroud or Bryce Young. 

Im not completely on board with Kenny, but Ive seen enough to make me believe he deserves more time.   He is a rookie QB with a bottom 5 offensive coaching, worst run game in the league, and inconsistent WRs.    Even an all world prospect like Trevor Lawrence looked mediocre as a rookie in bad circumstances.   Neither of those QBs would thrive under these circumstances.   I would have preferred we didn't draft Kenny in rd 1 this past draft, but now we have to make the most of it.

We are probably going to be in a good position to fix the team the next two offseasons.    I would much rather see us try to build around Kenny with the earlier picks and loads of cap room.

[warfelg]

According to Tankathon we would be picking 4th overall after last night.  Detroit, Houston, Carolina in that order ahead of us.

 

Trading teams of interest: Tampa (7), Seattle (10, 22), Indianapolis (15), Washington (19).

 

Washington is the team I would keep my eyes on.  They have so many issues and have lucked their way into that record more than have been good.  Of course is Seattle offers both 1sts in 2023 it's hard to say no, especially if you can send out 22 for future picks.

[warfelg]

Sorry @August4th I moved my reply here because of the post above

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good point

maybe teams like the colts and DC could be desperate enough to trade away picks. Colts are a team to watch out for. Irsay seems to becoming frustrated with the QB situation. He may be over going after the vets, so he might want to draft one. Frank might be on his way out. that's a potential OC candidate

I've got both those teams on my "watch" list.  I'd add Minnesota to that list, because new coach, high hopes, but QB play holds them back.  I don't think Indy's FO/Coaching staff is on it's way out though.  I think they took a shot on the Wentz thing, it didn't work, made the panic trade with Atlanta because they were close, and it blew up.  I think they should have just gone with Elinger to start the season and if they were bad, awesome; if they were good they knew they had something and kept the draft capital.