State of the Steelers

[warfelg]

5 hours ago, jebrick said:

I like potential in the 3rd+ rounds.  i like players who know football in the 1st 2 rounds.  Drafting on just potential has a way of working maybe 50% of the time in the early rounds

Fair enough. I like guys like Fashanu. Has progressed, can keep progressing. Shows low floor high ceiling potential. Has all the measurables in the world. He’s what I love to see out of a high pick. 

 

And apologies - I don't want you thinking I was attacking with that.  More just curious as to why there was a lot of disagreement with draftniks on some prospects.

Edited October 27, 2022 by warfelg

[mwalker]

9 hours ago, warfelg said:

I’m happy with Chucks RT play and would be against moving him to LT. Am I wrong in my takeaway from player assessments from you that you value finished product over the potential? It very much feels that way with how down you are on many players. 

J.Duncan is also a very good OT. Big and mobile.

[AFF]

11 minutes ago, mwalker said:

J.Duncan is also a very good OT. Big and mobile.

Another Steelers message board I check out is hyping him up big time.

 

[Chieferific]

1 hour ago, AFF said:

Another Steelers message board I check out is hyping him up big time.

 

[jebrick]

14 hours ago, warfelg said:

Fair enough. I like guys like Fashanu. Has progressed, can keep progressing. Shows low floor high ceiling potential. Has all the measurables in the world. He’s what I love to see out of a high pick. 

 

And apologies - I don't want you thinking I was attacking with that.  More just curious as to why there was a lot of disagreement with draftniks on some prospects.

It is no problem.  I get the debates.  I was all for potential in drafting a QB.  Less so on Oline.  CB is all potential since they are not taught enough in college to be worth a damm.  OLB can be all potential/athletics.  ILB must be able to play football.  The Steelers got lucky with Shazier in that they drafted potential and it payed off after 2.5 seasons.  for Wr I tend to look at route running 1st and speed second.  Perhaps add the 3-cone drill in there.  If they are good route runners in college they will get open easier in the NFL.

 

so first round i would like high floor players.  If they have higher ceilings then cool.  KP is a high floor/low ceiling player.  I think he is going to be a great backup in the league.  He is a safe pick.

 

Also, it really depends on where you pick in the draft and what they look for.

[warfelg]

 

[jebrick]

Only Steeler fans thought he was worth a 3rd

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Only Steeler fans thought he was worth a 3rd

It was actually plenty of non-Steeler fans bringing up that price. 

[warfelg]

34 minutes ago, jebrick said:

It is no problem.  I get the debates.  I was all for potential in drafting a QB.  Less so on Oline.  CB is all potential since they are not taught enough in college to be worth a damm.  OLB can be all potential/athletics.  ILB must be able to play football.  The Steelers got lucky with Shazier in that they drafted potential and it payed off after 2.5 seasons.  for Wr I tend to look at route running 1st and speed second.  Perhaps add the 3-cone drill in there.  If they are good route runners in college they will get open easier in the NFL.

 

so first round i would like high floor players.  If they have higher ceilings then cool.  KP is a high floor/low ceiling player.  I think he is going to be a great backup in the league.  He is a safe pick.

 

Also, it really depends on where you pick in the draft and what they look for.

I can see all of that.  I have certain positions I look for certain things:

IOL - I look more at ability to keep the COG low, open up the hips, 3-cone relative to position.  I know a scout for a team with a good IOL that asks them to do a squat test and wishes it would become a combine staple.  Good 10 yard split for the position.

LT - I look for potential while showing good movement traits.  Keep elbows in and not flap in the drop.  Keep a good base.  Move about without getting weight too much in heels or toes.  I prefer taller (6'4"+) and leaner (320ish) out of that position.

CB - Length and hip movement.  These guys can be scouted without a single workout.  Just need to watch tape.  Can they move with the WR and can they understand basic leverage.  Do they keep their hands off guys.  This one makes me think of the whole Surtain/Horn argument, and I was one of the few people on Surtain's wagon because of the playing without touching guys, and those things have carried over to the NFL.

QB - Throw with anticipation.  I think in ways this can be 'taught' but sometimes it can't.  Look at Bama/tOSU QB's the last few years.  All have struggled to some degree because they can wait for someone to get wide open and use their feet to buy the time if needed.

ILB/RB - Funny enough the traits I look for here are almost the exact same.  The overlap: fast to the LOS, good 3-cone, hit the hole with burst, ability to keep the pads low through the LOS, ability to get skinny through the LOS, ability to square up the shoulders quickly when in space.  For ILB's I like to see good movement, stepping at the snap, ability to recover.  For RB's I like to see interest in PB, low pads, and understanding the inside-out philosophy.

[warfelg]

From SI:

Quote

Chase Claypool to the Rams

The Rams missed out on Christian McCaffrey but could find another way to bolster their motion and misdirection game in the backfield. Claypool has a fair amount of experience there with Matt Canada, the Steelers’ offensive coordinator who inspired some of Sean McVay’s best concepts. The Steelers are loaded at the wide receiver position and have to be imagining a scenario where they’re unable to pay everyone at this current wide receiver market rate.

 

[warfelg]

Been a few weeks since I've done a mock, so here we go (from nflmockdraftdatabase):

 Rd 1 Pick 7 - Jordan Addison WR USC - I know this is going to be a super controversial pick but I don't care.  The OL has been decent enough, Claypool and Johnson don't seem to be long term solutions.  Pickett getting his college teammate back that he had a great connection with is only going to help, especially with Pickens out there too.

Rd 2 Pick 39 - Jaelyn Duncan OT Maryland - There wasn't a LT really worth much where we were, but now we get a really good OT here with this pick.  Duncan has that balance of potential and high floor that is intoxicating to me.

Rd 3 Pick 68 - Andrew Vorhees OG USC - I think he's a simple plug and play at LG for a while.  He's not going to be a big potential guy, he's built on having a great floor.  In the 2nd and 3rd rounds we've rebuilt the left side of the line and the line overall is in a better place.

Rd 4 Pick 99 - TRADE - Las Vegas sends 5/136, 7/200, and 2024 6th

Rd 5 Pick 136 - Jalen Catalon S Arkansas - He's a solid SS to have at this point.  Norwood is slowly playing himself out of a job.  Kazee would likely be S3 next year if he's back.  Catalon is a good backend piece.

Rd 5 Pick 167 - Nick Herbig LB Wisconsin - No other LB was really worth it at the right place we picked, but this is a decent pick at this point.

Rd 7 Pick 198 - Brandon Dorlus DL Oregon

Rd 7 Pick 200 - Nick Hampton EDGE Appalachian State

 

[MOSteelers56]

16 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Been a few weeks since I've done a mock, so here we go (from nflmockdraftdatabase):

 Rd 1 Pick 7 - Jordan Addison WR USC - I know this is going to be a super controversial pick but I don't care.  The OL has been decent enough, Claypool and Johnson don't seem to be long term solutions.  Pickett getting his college teammate back that he had a great connection with is only going to help, especially with Pickens out there too.

Rd 2 Pick 39 - Jaelyn Duncan OT Maryland - There wasn't a LT really worth much where we were, but now we get a really good OT here with this pick.  Duncan has that balance of potential and high floor that is intoxicating to me.

Rd 3 Pick 68 - Andrew Vorhees OG USC - I think he's a simple plug and play at LG for a while.  He's not going to be a big potential guy, he's built on having a great floor.  In the 2nd and 3rd rounds we've rebuilt the left side of the line and the line overall is in a better place.

Rd 4 Pick 99 - TRADE - Las Vegas sends 5/136, 7/200, and 2024 6th

Rd 5 Pick 136 - Jalen Catalon S Arkansas - He's a solid SS to have at this point.  Norwood is slowly playing himself out of a job.  Kazee would likely be S3 next year if he's back.  Catalon is a good backend piece.

Rd 5 Pick 167 - Nick Herbig LB Wisconsin - No other LB was really worth it at the right place we picked, but this is a decent pick at this point.

Rd 7 Pick 198 - Brandon Dorlus DL Oregon

Rd 7 Pick 200 - Nick Hampton EDGE Appalachian State

 

I'd be pumped if our first 3 picks broke that way. I think Duncan is maybe a top 15 pick right now, though. I've heard good things about the OG from USC. And who wouldn't want to give our Joe Burrow his own Jamarr Chase? I don't know anything about the other picks, though. 

[warfelg]

18 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I'd be pumped if our first 3 picks broke that way. I think Duncan is maybe a top 15 pick right now, though. I've heard good things about the OG from USC. And who wouldn't want to give our Joe Burrow his own Jamarr Chase? I don't know anything about the other picks, though. 

That's kinda my thinking with Addison.  Give Pickett the guy he had when his career exploded.  Along with the relationship that he has with Pickens can really set the offense up for years.  Additionally I think that OL can set up to either give Najee success or some other RB.

[Dcash4]

It would really, really depend for me on what happens via free agency for me to get behind a receiver anywhere in the top 3 rounds, but especially the first. It would also take a Claypool trade in order to recoup some of the draft stock we continually put in at the position. 

50% of the reason I wanted them to resign DJ was so that they would stop putting our best assets into the same position at the expense of finding quality and depth at others. I IMO, receiver needs a year off in the draft. He would need to be a can't miss prospect. Too many really good receivers coming into the league each year to spend a first on one with other needs. Worst case, you move it to the top of the list in 2024. 

[AFF]

2 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

It would really, really depend for me on what happens via free agency for me to get behind a receiver anywhere in the top 3 rounds, but especially the first. It would also take a Claypool trade in order to recoup some of the draft stock we continually put in at the position. 

50% of the reason I wanted them to resign DJ was so that they would stop putting our best assets into the same position at the expense of finding quality and depth at others. I IMO, receiver needs a year off in the draft. He would need to be a can't miss prospect. Too many really good receivers coming into the league each year to spend a first on one with other needs. Worst case, you move it to the top of the list in 2024. 

I’m at the elite can’t miss guy….or just not pick one.