lavar703 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 26 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: This is where I ended up at seasons end. Too many negative plays, but I saw enough early to know that the kid can play at a pretty high level in the NFL. I still think the guy got a really ****ty deal at his "shot" at being an NFL starting QB. He was anointed by a coach trying to save his job, who put way too much pressure on the "young QB." On top of that, they brought in an OC who refused to use him in a controlled game management type scenario, instead forcing him to throw 35+ times a game behind the leagues worst offensive line, and never giving him a run game to set anything up. I'm not going to take away his portion of responsibility, but I don't think any QB is going to "thrive" in this scenario. I expect Howell to be on the roster next year. If I had my dream scenario, we would have traded out of #2, landed a haul of future picks, drafted a book end OT and other supporting players to make everyone's life easier, and end up starting Sam Howell again under a competent HC and OC. I don't mind if the new staff wants to draft "their guy" at QB, but we still gotta build the team up around whoever plays QB. I think I agree with all of this. I think Sam can be great but I don't think you can take another year to "wait and see" at the expense of passing on QB yet again with the 2nd pick in the draft. Honestly, its just a crappy situation for Sam. Anybody who says he got a fair shake here is just fooling themselves. He was put in a horrible situation but I also get where this is headed. But I hate the idea of just dumping him. I think if you take Maye or Daniels and Sam is on the roster it has to be a true competition and may the best man win. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 5 hours ago, Slappy Mc said: This is where I ended up at seasons end. Too many negative plays, but I saw enough early to know that the kid can play at a pretty high level in the NFL. I still think the guy got a really ****ty deal at his "shot" at being an NFL starting QB. He was anointed by a coach trying to save his job, who put way too much pressure on the "young QB." On top of that, they brought in an OC who refused to use him in a controlled game management type scenario, instead forcing him to throw 35+ times a game behind the leagues worst offensive line, and never giving him a run game to set anything up. I'm not going to take away his portion of responsibility, but I don't think any QB is going to "thrive" in this scenario. I expect Howell to be on the roster next year. If I had my dream scenario, we would have traded out of #2, landed a haul of future picks, drafted a book end OT and other supporting players to make everyone's life easier, and end up starting Sam Howell again under a competent HC and OC. I don't mind if the new staff wants to draft "their guy" at QB, but we still gotta build the team up around whoever plays QB. This ^^^ All.Of.This ^^^ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/the-commanders-are-recalibrating-their-3-item-checklist-begins-with-a-new-qb Quote What about Howell? Multiple NFL sources believe several teams would be interested in trading for the 23-year-old who threw for 3,946 yards and 21 touchdowns in 17 starts last season (albeit with an NFL-worst 21 interceptions). They could potentially get a third-round pick for him — maybe more — if they decide they're willing to deal him sometime around the draft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 12 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/the-commanders-are-recalibrating-their-3-item-checklist-begins-with-a-new-qb I think I would rather just keep Howell. I know the likely scenario is we draft someone at 2 and that person gets all the starts the next 2 seasons, then Howell leaves for nothing. But there's also a world where the rookie sucks, gets hurt, or both and Howell comes in and reclaims the job and is our long term starter at QB. There's that and just the added value of having a decent backup QB, someone would have to offer a lot for me to trade Howell. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTMONK HOF Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, MKnight82 said: I think I would rather just keep Howell. I know the likely scenario is we draft someone at 2 and that person gets all the starts the next 2 seasons, then Howell leaves for nothing. But there's also a world where the rookie sucks, gets hurt, or both and Howell comes in and reclaims the job and is our long term starter at QB. There's that and just the added value of having a decent backup QB, someone would have to offer a lot for me to trade Howell. Grant Paulsen We asked @RalphVacchiano why he thinks Sam Howell could catch a 3rd-Rd pick: "One of the people who told me maybe they can get a 3rd for him pointed out that Trey Lance was traded to the Cowboys and [SF] got a 4th. Howell has shown he can play a little a bit, shown he's tough." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 30 minutes ago, ARTMONK HOF said: Grant Paulsen We asked @RalphVacchiano why he thinks Sam Howell could catch a 3rd-Rd pick: "One of the people who told me maybe they can get a 3rd for him pointed out that Trey Lance was traded to the Cowboys and [SF] got a 4th. Howell has shown he can play a little a bit, shown he's tough." I’m not sure how apples to apples it is though. Former 3rd overall pick and the “unknown” vs a 5th rounder with more up and down tape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylor made Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 It'd be a mistake not to trade Sam Howell for a third rounder. We need have so many holes on this team and we need to rebuild badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 55 minutes ago, taylor made said: It'd be a mistake not to trade Sam Howell for a third rounder. We need have so many holes on this team and we need to rebuild badly. I could only imagine the party you would throw lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 7 hours ago, MKnight82 said: I think I would rather just keep Howell. I know the likely scenario is we draft someone at 2 and that person gets all the starts the next 2 seasons, then Howell leaves for nothing. But there's also a world where the rookie sucks, gets hurt, or both and Howell comes in and reclaims the job and is our long term starter at QB. There's that and just the added value of having a decent backup QB, someone would have to offer a lot for me to trade Howell. Plus a veteran backup is gonna cost us like $8M+. Howell is costing us $1M next year. I realize we have a great cap position, but that difference is significant when you're trying to sign players and make sure the cap hits in future years aren't too prohibitive. For instance we could front load a player's cap hit by $7M this year instead of pushing it out to a year where we know we have a lot of FA coming free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylor made Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 44 minutes ago, lavar703 said: I could only imagine the party you would throw lol When it's all said and done, I'll give credit that Sam played well for a fifth rounder. But that doesn't mean I think he's starter worthy - but maybe he's earned a shot someplace else. I'm hoping these trade rumors are getting leaked because it'll actually come to fruition. Could you imagine getting three third rounders this draft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylor made Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 33 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: Plus a veteran backup is gonna cost us like $8M+. Howell is costing us $1M next year. I realize we have a great cap position, but that difference is significant when you're trying to sign players and make sure the cap hits in future years aren't too prohibitive. For instance we could front load a player's cap hit by $7M this year instead of pushing it out to a year where we know we have a lot of FA coming free. Drew Lock, who I thought we should have signed last year signed with the Seahawks for 1 year, 4 million. Maybe we used to overpay Free Agents to come here but not every team has a Rivera who dishes out $8 million for a backup. This is the absolute best time to trade Sam when the Iron is hot. We need to rebuild this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, taylor made said: Drew Lock, who I thought we should have signed last year signed with the Seahawks for 1 year, 4 million. Maybe we used to overpay Free Agents to come here but not every team has a Rivera who dishes out $8 million for a backup. This is the absolute best time to trade Sam when the Iron is hot. We need to rebuild this team. I mean, not gonna lie, turning a 5th round pick into a 3rd round pick is enticing. But with the salary cap going up as much as it is and the fact that everyone knows we have the "Deepest pockets" in terms of FA $$, any potential FA is going to be gunning for as much $$ as possible. And when you trade away Sam and have no one on the roster who has even started an NFL game, the potential veteran QB is in the driver's seat in terms of compensation. So I seriously doubt we are going to sign a veteran QB for only $4M. This is why, for now, Sam is more valuable to me on the roster than trading him. IF the rookie comes in and starts and plays like gangbusters? Then trade Sam away at the deadline (or the offseason). But his value is worth more than a 3rd rounder with how cheap he is and the fact that he can be a serviceable backup (assuming we draft a QB). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKellion Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I think Maye and Howell would be quite the dynamic duo,QBs get hurt all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylor made Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 21 hours ago, Thaiphoon said: This is why, for now, Sam is more valuable to me on the roster than trading him. IF the rookie comes in and starts and plays like gangbusters? Then trade Sam away at the deadline (or the offseason). But his value is worth more than a 3rd rounder with how cheap he is and the fact that he can be a serviceable backup (assuming we draft a QB). For better or worse, I think this thread has shown you have a Sam bias going on. You could argue that I have a Sam bias going in the other direction. Why not actually help our rookie QB's development out with a big WR, TE of the future, or a 3rd down running back/Oline depth we desperately need? It's a long shot but we could turn into the Texans in just one season if we hit with just a few of our draft picks. Here's a list of Free Agent Quarterbacks: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/quarterback/?ref=trending-pages Ryan Tannehill (4.9 million estimate), Tyler Huntley, Mitchell Trubisky, Tyrod Taylor (3.3 million estimate), Teddy Bridgewater, Easton Stick are all in that price range and would provide the same quality of play that you would get from Sam IMO. I don't feel his value is going to get any better - and I believe he is wildly overvalued at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 15 hours ago, taylor made said: For better or worse, I think this thread has shown you have a Sam bias going on. You could argue that I have a Sam bias going in the other direction. Why not actually help our rookie QB's development out with a big WR, TE of the future, or a 3rd down running back/Oline depth we desperately need? It's a long shot but we could turn into the Texans in just one season if we hit with just a few of our draft picks. Here's a list of Free Agent Quarterbacks: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/quarterback/?ref=trending-pages Ryan Tannehill (4.9 million estimate), Tyler Huntley, Mitchell Trubisky, Tyrod Taylor (3.3 million estimate), Teddy Bridgewater, Easton Stick are all in that price range and would provide the same quality of play that you would get from Sam IMO. I don't feel his value is going to get any better - and I believe he is wildly overvalued at the moment. Not necessarily a Sam bias towards him, just that I think he's a better QB than you give him credit for and was put in a bad position by our ex-GM and our ex-OC. BUT... If I can trade Sam for a 3rd rounder and I can get a Tyrod for $3.3M? Sure. Let's do it. But of that list, he's the only one I'd want. And YGBKM with listing Easton Stick (just my opinion) as someone who gives you the same quality of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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