The 2023-2024 Sam Howell thread

[MikeT14]

9 hours ago, taylor made said:

Justin Herbert, Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisberger, Michael Vick all looked pretty great starting out of the gate. 

8 out of 9 first round picks. If that's the path you think we need to take, I get it. If you'd like to look into developing a guy, who at the start of the year looked pretty good too, I get it also. Most of those guys had some first year blues as well at some point. 

[Slappy Mc]

I got to sleep on this thought. Terry McLaurin before Howell was pulled, had 3 catches on 8 targets for 48 yards. Brissett came in and Terry's statline looked a lot better. 3 catches on 4 targets for 93 yards and the TD. 

Now, I'll have to rewatch each of McLaurins targets from Howell. I do know there was the really bad throw that ended up in the INT and there was a throw slightly before that McLaurin dropped. But there are 6 other targets I need to see. 

At this point, if I'm Howell or Brissett, I don't care what EB calls. You force feed Terry McLaurin. Throw him 20 passes a game, IDGAF. It's clear that the more involved Terry is, the better the offense does. 

On a related note, I don't recall seeing a screen pass called when the Rams were just pinning their ears back. Heck, I don't think I saw a quick slant either. I am pretty much over the EB experiment. I've been over Ron's tenure for a long time. 

Three more games and we get to finally start the true purge of all things Snyder gave us. 

#FireRonRivera

[Thaiphoon]

31 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

I got to sleep on this thought. Terry McLaurin before Howell was pulled, had 3 catches on 8 targets for 48 yards. Brissett came in and Terry's statline looked a lot better. 3 catches on 4 targets for 93 yards and the TD. 

Now, I'll have to rewatch each of McLaurins targets from Howell. I do know there was the really bad throw that ended up in the INT and there was a throw slightly before that McLaurin dropped. But there are 6 other targets I need to see. 

At this point, if I'm Howell or Brissett, I don't care what EB calls. You force feed Terry McLaurin. Throw him 20 passes a game, IDGAF. It's clear that the more involved Terry is, the better the offense does. 

On a related note, I don't recall seeing a screen pass called when the Rams were just pinning their ears back. Heck, I don't think I saw a quick slant either. I am pretty much over the EB experiment. I've been over Ron's tenure for a long time. 

Three more games and we get to finally start the true purge of all things Snyder gave us. 

#FireRonRivera

IMHO, that INT was Howell trying to force feed Terry. He had the easy 5-8 yard pass to the sideline that he turned down. He's got people in his ear telling him to force feed Terry. 

But the statline improved due to the Rams backups being in, playing prevent (while up 21) and only rushing 4. OL had easier time to block and the verts that Terry was running he was able to get open. Brissett had time from the OL and the play was able to be made. Most of the time people say "so and so was open" forget that the QB has already turned down that route because the receiver did not "win" fast enough. And by the time the QB has looked off them and gone to another receiver, they might have broken free. But it's too late by then. Which is why the OL needs to give young QBs more time to work through things. And on long developing routes (like the two to Terry), the OL absolutely needs to give more than just 2 seconds. Fortunately for Terry, the OL wasn't facing Donald & Co. and the 2nd string was in playing prevent.

And you're right about the play calls. I've not been that impressed with EB this season.

[Slappy Mc]

39 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

IMHO, that INT was Howell trying to force feed Terry. He had the easy 5-8 yard pass to the sideline that he turned down. He's got people in his ear telling him to force feed Terry. 

The only reason I don't agree is that if you watch the play again, Terry is open at the snap. He found the hole in the zone, but Howell wasn't looking at him. Curtis Samuel was his first read (that he stayed on WAY too long). Then Howell scrambles to the right and tells Terry to cut back towards the center of the field (forcing a cross-body throw) and the throw was high and deservedly intercepted. 

Now, he could have tucked and run or thrown to the RB up the sideline, but he forced a bad throw to Terry, so I guess the word forced is there.

However if he were to be force feeding Terry, he IMO, should identify exactly where Terry is every snap and glance his direction first. Terry was WIDE open for about 2 seconds and SH was looking at Curtis. That's on EB for not scheming to your best player and it's on Sam for not getting off Samuel sooner. 

[Thaiphoon]

2 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

The only reason I don't agree is that if you watch the play again, Terry is open at the snap. He found the hole in the zone, but Howell wasn't looking at him. Curtis Samuel was his first read (that he stayed on WAY too long). Then Howell scrambles to the right and tells Terry to cut back towards the center of the field (forcing a cross-body throw) and the throw was high and deservedly intercepted. 

Now, he could have tucked and run or thrown to the RB up the sideline, but he forced a bad throw to Terry, so I guess the word forced is there.

However if he were to be force feeding Terry, he IMO, should identify exactly where Terry is every snap and glance his direction first. Terry was WIDE open for about 2 seconds and SH was looking at Curtis. That's on EB for not scheming to your best player and it's on Sam for not getting off Samuel sooner. 

I agree. I wasn't talking about EB force feeding him. I was talking about Sam trying to make something from that play and identifying Terry to be the guy (Sam forcing it). And completely agree with you that Sam needs to come off Samuel earlier. If he does, he sees Terry. He was thinking too much on that play as young QBs tend to do.

But he didn't come off Curtis fast enough and if you play it again, as Sam rolls to the right he has two receivers available for a short gain (with some room for YAC from the guy next to the sideline). I'm doing this from memory so I don't remember which player was which. Sam could've taken the short throw but was trying to then force it to Terry for the longer play (and Terry was still interfered with - a non call). I love that he was trying to make something big from the play. I hate QBs who only play it safe. But I think he'll learn to take what the defense gives you even if you are feeling the heat from the coaches, yourself, etc... and temper that willingness to challenge defenses with taking the layup.

[Slappy Mc]

13 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

I agree. I wasn't talking about EB force feeding him. I was talking about Sam trying to make something from that play and identifying Terry to be the guy (Sam forcing it). And completely agree with you that Sam needs to come off Samuel earlier. If he does, he sees Terry. He was thinking too much on that play as young QBs tend to do.

But he didn't come off Curtis fast enough and if you play it again, as Sam rolls to the right he has two receivers available for a short gain (with some room for YAC from the guy next to the sideline). I'm doing this from memory so I don't remember which player was which. Sam could've taken the short throw but was trying to then force it to Terry for the longer play (and Terry was still interfered with - a non call). I love that he was trying to make something big from the play. I hate QBs who only play it safe. But I think he'll learn to take what the defense gives you even if you are feeling the heat from the coaches, yourself, etc... and temper that willingness to challenge defenses with taking the layup.

 

Found the video. Watch it again. Locked onto Samuel too long. Flushed from the pocket, tells Terry to cut to the center. Just throw to Gibson and live to play another down. This is not the force feeding I'm talking about. This was one of Sam's worst decisions he has made this year. 

Sam should have glanced at Curtis instead of locking on. Terry sat in the hole of the defense for a full two seconds. No need to adjust his route, he was open and Sam wasn't looking at him. That is on EB, IMO. Design the damn plays so you look at your #1 option first every play. 

Plays like that are going to cost Sam a job in the NFL. He cannot do that. 

[Thaiphoon]

24 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

 

Found the video. Watch it again. Locked onto Samuel too long. Flushed from the pocket, tells Terry to cut to the center. Just throw to Gibson and live to play another down. This is not the force feeding I'm talking about. This was one of Sam's worst decisions he has made this year. 

Sam should have glanced at Curtis instead of locking on. Terry sat in the hole of the defense for a full two seconds. No need to adjust his route, he was open and Sam wasn't looking at him. That is on EB, IMO. Design the damn plays so you look at your #1 option first every play. 

Plays like that are going to cost Sam a job in the NFL. He cannot do that. 

Yup. Thank you. I was doing this from memory so yeah, I agree he screwed up on this play. Right at the 0:02 mark he had either Terry or Gibson (he was the one near the sideline) and had he thrown it then (the better pass was to Gibson) it's a completion and a possible first down.

You're right he looked at Samuel too long and missed Terry wide open. By the time he came off Samuel the defender was closing in on Terry. Completely agree with you here on the play design and call. As well as Sam's decision making. Gibby was the throw here because right at the 0:03 mark he got flushed. And even then as he is flushing out he STILL has Terry and Gibby. Terry is breaking toward the sideline and Gibby is running up the sideline (like they should on a "scramble" play). You either throw it right then to Gibby or allow him to take the two defenders away from Terry and throw the "out" to Terry and get a 1st down.

My only point (from memory) was that as soon as he turned both those down (which I agree was stupid) he tried to then force it to Terry in the middle. If it worked it would've made a helluva highlight. But the smarter move was to just throw the danged ball to Gibby or Terry earlier in the play.

And I think this is the play that got him benched. Hopefully sitting and watching Jacoby yesterday will help him pull his head out of his rear where this type of thing is concerned.

And thanks again for this clip. I couldn't remember who was who, just that he had two receivers open for what could've been an easy 1st down.

[taylor made]

11 hours ago, lavar703 said:

But there also isn’t Caleb Williams and Drake Maye. We have zero shot at either. So it’s Jayden Daniels, Nix and Penix. And Jayden Daniels was mediocre for 4 years until he was older and more mature than everybody else. If they take him I’ll support him like I do most of the QBs we bring in but you don’t just play mediocre for 4 years and then explode. The only guy I can think of that really did that was Burrow but there’s been plenty more like Jamarcus Russell, Akili Smith, Dwayne Haskins, Daniel Jones and Kenny Pickett who had one great year and parlayed that into a high pick and then did nothing. 

 

[MikeT14]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/39150821/2024-nfl-quarterback-market-teams-starters-offseason-free-agent-trade-draft#wsh

 

Quote

Washington Commanders

Current starter: Sam Howell

What happened in Week 15: Ron Rivera cracked. After spending all season committing to Howell as the starter, the Commanders coach finally benched the second-year quarterback after an interception during Sunday's loss to the Rams, turning things over to overqualified backup Jacoby Brissett. Brissett immediately led two scoring drives, going 8-of-10 for 124 yards and sparking the first breakout game all season from star wideout Terry McLaurin.

Immediately after the game, Rivera said that Howell was pulled from the game to "protect" him, and that Howell would be back in the lineup against the Jets on Sunday. Oh well.

How has it gone in 2023? It has been interesting. New offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy has leaned into the pass, so Howell has thrown a league-high 535 pass attempts. He also leads the NFL with 15 interceptions and 59 sacks, though his sack rate has thankfully come down as the season has gone along. After being sacked on 13.5% of his dropbacks through the first seven games of the season, he has seen his sack rate improve to 6.4% over the ensuing seven starts.

There are unquestionably things to like about Howell. He's tough and mobile. He has a legitimate NFL-caliber arm, and when he gets a chance to step into a throw, Howell can deliver some really impressive passes. If you put together a two-minute highlight reel of the best Howell plays from 2023, he looks like an above-average NFL quarterback.

Of course, there's more to the game than a highlight reel, and Howell's inconsistencies and inexperience show. Despite the big arm, he's only averaging 6.7 yards per attempt. He's also 19-of-60 on deep passes traveling 20 or more yards downfield, and his 64.6 QBR on those throws ranks 26th. Owing to Washington's defense and the heavy pass rate, nobody has more passing yards in garbage time (with a sub-5% win expectancy) than Howell.

Contract for 2024: Howell will be in Year 3 of his rookie deal. Even if he's pushed into the backup role, the 23-year-old will still be a relative bargain, as he'll make $985,000. There's a Gardner Minshew career path in the future for Howell, even if he's not the long-term starter in Washington. Brissett will be a free agent, and after more than half the league needed to turn to a backup at one point or another this season, the former Browns starter should attract more interest than he did in March.

Other internal candidates: The practice squad option here is Jake Fromm, who was last seen starting for the Joe Judge Giants in 2021.

Ties to any likely free agents: Just about everybody around the NFL expects Rivera to be let go by the team's new ownership group at the end of the season, so we won't know who holds ties to the Commanders until we actually see who ends up making decisions.

Most likely QB they'll pursue: It depends on which path the Commanders choose to take. It looks like Josh Harris and the new ownership group are embracing a much-needed rebuild, which would probably require the Commanders to be patient as they build infrastructure around a potential quarterback of the future. With Washington projected to land the fourth pick in the draft at the moment per ESPN's FPI, it could try to draft Daniels or another of the quarterbacks outside the top two. Trading the pick for much-needed draft capital, giving Howell another season and expecting to bottom out in 2025 might also be a longer-term strategy.

 

[taylor made]

The difference in QB "Pocket Presence" was night and day between Sam Howell and Jacoby Brisett. Sam seems shell shocked at this point. And to his defense, by taking that many sacks early on, I understand. Jacoby also seemed to play behind the offensive line a little deeper than Sam and was just calmer in general. Sam can't play that far back because of his height and lack of physical ability. 

[taylor made]

On 12/18/2023 at 7:57 AM, MikeT14 said:

This seems a little extreme and obtuse on your point. Not everyone comes in at QB and throws for 3500 yards and 19 TDs through 14 games. It's a franchise record through 14 games. The INTs are a major issue, but he's also right around where Allen and Mahomes are for them. For a guy in his second year in the NFL, it could be a lot worse. He's been a step above Davis Mills, Desmond Ridder, Mac Jones, and the like so far. 

Is he worth exploring for the future? It looked that way earlier, and maybe not as much so now. But to say many of us were delusional would be a misnomer and unfair. We're in a position to let the new GM decide what we do. Don't be surprised if they try again with Howell. 

This football year has certainly been frustrating for me. And a large part of that is on Sam Howell. I probably should not have used the word delusional and I was emotional after the game. 

[Slappy Mc]

4 hours ago, taylor made said:

The difference in QB "Pocket Presence" was night and day between Sam Howell and Jacoby Brisett. Sam seems shell shocked at this point. And to his defense, by taking that many sacks early on, I understand. Jacoby also seemed to play behind the offensive line a little deeper than Sam and was just calmer in general. Sam can't play that far back because of his height and lack of physical ability. 

This is probably the most rational take on Howell that I have seen you make. I agree with everything you said here. (minus maybe his physical abilities)

[offbyone]

I like Howell, but truly he couldn't ask for a better opportunity and he just didn't do enough with it.  You can't go into another season without a real alternative at qb1.  

[MKnight82]

19 hours ago, taylor made said:

The difference in QB "Pocket Presence" was night and day between Sam Howell and Jacoby Brisett. Sam seems shell shocked at this point. And to his defense, by taking that many sacks early on, I understand. Jacoby also seemed to play behind the offensive line a little deeper than Sam and was just calmer in general. Sam can't play that far back because of his height and lack of physical ability. 

- Sam Howell can physically make every throw necessary in the NFL, plus he’s athletic enough to scramble out of the pocket.

- Sam Howell is just as tall as the consensus #1 overall super prospect at QB in this upcoming draft class.

- Agreed the line maybe have shook him. He has been hammered this year.

[Skinsin2013]

4 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

- Sam Howell can physically make every throw necessary in the NFL, plus he’s athletic enough to scramble out of the pocket.

- Sam Howell is just as tall as the consensus #1 overall super prospect at QB in this upcoming draft class.

- Agreed the line maybe have shook him. He has been hammered this year.

This was my annual Redskins/Commanders FB rant yesterday... 

QB # infinity broken by the Redskins/Commanders franchise. If you blame Howell, or are even still evaluating him, you have amnesia and are forgetting this isn't the first time this franchise has ruined a young QB and you simply aren't a good evaluator. The kid is punch drunk and shell-shocked. Any QB would be at this point.

I said a few weeks ago this team would quit and Howell would pay the price, especially the perception of him. It's happened. Note that our Head Coach/General Manager drafted a skinny CB that barely plays anymore in the 1st round, and a luxury DB that barely plays in the 2nd. All while everyone was screaming offensive line. Fire them all, send Howell on a month long detox, draft Joe Alt in the 1st, spend $35M of the $100M in cap space on two offensive linemen, draft a QB with one of your first five picks (in the top 100) to compete with Howell. If they want to take a QB with their first round pick, so be it. Just make sure they have three to four new offensive linemen in front of him. Annual Redskins/WFT/Commanders rant over. On to baseball season.

----

To add, you can see he is broken on his face. My God did his teammates hang him out to dry yesterday. Dropped passes and slips. No run game (thanks EB). I rarely write up FB posts about this team anymore. I'm numb. But this has all happened before... no offensive line, young QB destroyed, fans blaming the young QB, players playing at 85% come the end of a losing year with the coaching staff leaving, QB pays the price. It's the perfect storm that we see every four or five years in DC (it seems like). 

I have no allegiance to Howell. But, without going into as to why, I do think he is the guy. That said, if they want to draft Drake Maye in the first (should he be available), knock your socks off. Just MAKE SURE he's not the next young QB ruined in DC. 

Finally... how could Brissett do so well? He's been chilling on the sideline and isn't physically and mentally beat to hell. When Howell was in a similar state, he played well for a rookie (essentially) QB. 

I hate this F'ing team.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Skinsin2013