EDGE Talk

[MagicMT]

On 12/17/2022 at 10:43 PM, Daniel said:

Probably not before Myles Murphy either.  But he should absolutely be a first round pick, IMO.

Murphy might be the most overrated player in the draft this year. I'd take Verse before him 10/10. 
So far I'd have him as my #3 guy as well, behind Anderson and T. Wilson 

[Daniel]

19 minutes ago, MagicMT said:

Murphy might be the most overrated player in the draft this year. I'd take Verse before him 10/10. 
So far I'd have him as my #3 guy as well, behind Anderson and T. Wilson 

That’s a very good top three. You are clearly a well educated and cultured gentleman.

[BetterCallSaul]

9 hours ago, MagicMT said:

Murphy might be the most overrated player in the draft this year. I'd take Verse before him 10/10. 
So far I'd have him as my #3 guy as well, behind Anderson and T. Wilson 

Murphy is the layup. Verse would be the 3-pointer. Murphy is going to be a solid pro who controls his gap and can put some heat on the QB with bull rush and effort. Verse has an immense upside, but he's not polished and doesn't do the little things. Murphy gets too much hate because he's not bendy. Accurate. However, he will be a 10+ year pro, whereas I could see Verse flaming out of the league in 2-3 seasons if he doesn't develop. Classic debate of upside vs. polish. Although I don't think either one is horribly outclassed in either area (upside for Murphy, polish for Verse).

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Murphy is the layup. Verse would be the 3-pointer. Murphy is going to be a solid pro who controls his gap and can put some heat on the QB with bull rush and effort. Verse has an immense upside, but he's not polished and doesn't do the little things. Murphy gets too much hate because he's not bendy. Accurate. However, he will be a 10+ year pro, whereas I could see Verse flaming out of the league in 2-3 seasons if he doesn't develop. Classic debate of upside vs. polish. Although I don't think either one is horribly outclassed in either area (upside for Murphy, polish for Verse).

Murphy hasn't wowed me in a single game I've seen him in.  And if you don't jump off the tape, and are more a consistently very good player type, it's hard to justify an early first round pick.  That's where I think Murphy is.  Verse jumps off the tape, but yeah, he needs to learn some moves instead of just relying on speed and power (say the same for Tyree, except he has, seemingly, a lot more speed and power).

Still think he's a great prospect, but I wouldn't take him top 10.

[BetterCallSaul]

3 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Murphy hasn't wowed me in a single game I've seen him in.  And if you don't jump off the tape, and are more a consistently very good player type, it's hard to justify an early first round pick.  That's where I think Murphy is.  Verse jumps off the tape, but yeah, he needs to learn some moves instead of just relying on speed and power (say the same for Tyree, except he has, seemingly, a lot more speed and power).

Still think he's a great prospect, but I wouldn't take him top 10.

Makes sense. Murphy won't wow you. He doesn't have a flashy style of play. It's all hands and knockbacks. He can't bend the edge, nor does he really try to do that. I think as a realistic floor, he's AJ Epenesa. At his realistic ceiling, he's Carlos Dunlap.

It isn't great, but on the flip side, you're probably looking more like Verse being either Jason Pierre-Paul ceiling or Nick Perry floor. Much more volatile in stock.

 

All depends what you're looking for too. If you need a base LDE that can kick inside on pass downs, Murphy makes way more sense. If you're looking for a wide 9 RDE or rush LB in a 3-4, Verse is the obvious choice.

 

I wouldn't fault anyone for taking Verse over Murphy, but you're more likely to swing & miss doing that...in my opinion.

[nicfre2011]

On 12/18/2022 at 11:36 AM, Scoundrel said:

Take FAU (Felix Anudike-Uzomah) probably won’t need to trade up he is from Kansas City and played close by at KSU. He turns 21 next month. Verse turns 23 in November. 

I'm really intrigued by Felix Anudike-Uzomah. What can you guys tell me about him?

[Scoundrel]

32 minutes ago, nicfre2011 said:

I'm really intrigued by Felix Anudike-Uzomah. What can you guys tell me about him?

Relentless. Wish he has more bend but I feel like we say that about so many edge rushing prospects these days. He is pretty athletic and can close quickly. He is young and still needs to work on developing his arsenal but if he does then he can be a very good player in the NFL.

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, Scoundrel said:

Relentless. Wish he has more bend but I feel like we say that about so many edge rushing prospects these days. He is pretty athletic and can close quickly. He is young and still needs to work on developing his arsenal but if he does then he can be a very good player in the NFL.

Not a very bendy class this year.

[jebrick]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/35291263/nfl-draft-path-cleared-andre-carter-ii-due-bill-provision

 

Carter will be able to be drafted after all.

Quote

New language formally filed Tuesday morning in a piece of end-of-year legislation will restore the opportunity for Carter and other current academy upperclassmen at Army, Navy and Air Force to defer military service to pursue professional sports.

 

[jrry32]

I started evaluating some of the Late Day 1/Day 2 guys. Here are my preliminary thoughts:

1. Nolan Smith EDGE Georgia - Very intriguing. Gives tons of effort, disciplined against the run, outstanding athlete with legit cover skills, has some pop in his hands, plays bigger and stronger than you expect against the run, and when Georgia turns him loose, he flashes some bend and cornering. Doesn't have a ton of true pass rush snaps, as UGA asked him to play a more calculated and disciplined role, so pass rush is a bit of a projection. But he has the tools. Wish he was a little bigger, as I have some concerns about how he'll fare as a true EDGE against OTs who can engulf him with size and power. Could be a stellar OLB in a system that wants a hybrid player (rusher and off-the-ball backer). Has huge amount of upside as an EDGE too. I'm struggling to come up with a comparison. Maybe Julian Peterson or Jamie Collins (when he was motivated and playing well).

2. B.J. Ojulari EDGE LSU - He's better than Azeez was as a prospect imo. I understand why he's being talked about as a second rounder, but I think he's going to vastly outplayed his draft spot if he lands there. He's explosive off the LOS, he's twitchy, he's very bendy and consistently is able to play under blocks, and he gives relentless effort. Yes, he's a finesse guy who hasn't shown any sort of consistent power game. Yes, he's not going to be a plus run defender. But he has an outstanding motor and plays hard on run downs, so he's not a guy who will kill you there either. (Although, teams can use his aggressiveness against him.) At the end of the day, this is a passing league, and he's a dude who can give you double digit sacks. And he's not a one-trick pony as a pass rusher. He's finesse, but he's savvy, utilizes a lot of different moves and techniques, and has the twitch and quickness to win inside if OTs try to cheat outside. He reminds me of post-breakout Shaq Barrett.

3. Felix Anudike-Uzomah EDGE Kansas State - He's still figuring things out, but he has the tools to be an impact guy. Explosive off the snap with a legit power game. Has enough bend to corner and flatten. Uses his hands well, even if he doesn't have a diverse set of pass rush moves or a developed pass rush plan at this point in time. Gives great effort. He defends the run relatively well. He's a strong dude who can hold his ground and set the edge. Could get better at identifying where the ball is going and figuring out how to defeat the blocking scheme, but again, the tools are there to be a quality run defender. If he develops, he's a good to very good player in both run defense and pass rushing. Brian Orakpo is the guy who came to mind for me if Felix develops well.

4. Derick Hall EDGE Auburn - Great movement skills and very difficult to move in the running game, but I felt his pass rush was too reliant on effort and power. Face up pass rusher who didn't corner or bend well imo. I feel like he's a lesser version of Jermaine Johnson from last year. Physical, strong dude who can run. He'll defend the run for you. He'll get pressure on the QB through effort, power, and relentlessness, but I'm not sure what the pass rush upside is. Might be more of a glue guy than a difference maker. 

5. Zach Harrison EDGE Ohio State - Didn't blow me away. You can see the tools. He's fast and explosive in a straight line. He's a strong dude. But he didn't seem very natural. I didn't feel he made the same impact as the other guys I watched. I can understand why a team will take a shot on him, but he wasn't my cup of tea.

6. Isaiah McGuire EDGE Missouri - Powerful and physical guy with hands that shock the OL and more cornering ability than you expect, but he's not overly explosive or fast. I felt like his effort came and went too. When he was engaged, he was capable of bullying the guy across from him. But the motor seemed to run hot and cold. Seemed like a better fit as a 4-3 DL.

Next on the list:

1. Jared Verse EDGE FSU

2. Byron Young EDGE Tennessee

3. Mike Morris EDGE Michigan

4. Isaiah Foskey EDGE Notre Dame

5. Will McDonald EDGE Iowa State

6. Laiatu Latu EDGE UCLA

[Ozzy]

4 hours ago, jrry32 said:

I started evaluating some of the Late Day 1/Day 2 guys. Here are my preliminary thoughts:

1. Nolan Smith EDGE Georgia - Very intriguing. Gives tons of effort, disciplined against the run, outstanding athlete with legit cover skills, has some pop in his hands, plays bigger and stronger than you expect against the run, and when Georgia turns him loose, he flashes some bend and cornering. Doesn't have a ton of true pass rush snaps, as UGA asked him to play a more calculated and disciplined role, so pass rush is a bit of a projection. But he has the tools. Wish he was a little bigger, as I have some concerns about how he'll fare as a true EDGE against OTs who can engulf him with size and power. Could be a stellar OLB in a system that wants a hybrid player (rusher and off-the-ball backer). Has huge amount of upside as an EDGE too. I'm struggling to come up with a comparison. Maybe Julian Peterson or Jamie Collins (when he was motivated and playing well).

2. B.J. Ojulari EDGE LSU - He's better than Azeez was as a prospect imo. I understand why he's being talked about as a second rounder, but I think he's going to vastly outplayed his draft spot if he lands there. He's explosive off the LOS, he's twitchy, he's very bendy and consistently is able to play under blocks, and he gives relentless effort. Yes, he's a finesse guy who hasn't shown any sort of consistent power game. Yes, he's not going to be a plus run defender. But he has an outstanding motor and plays hard on run downs, so he's not a guy who will kill you there either. (Although, teams can use his aggressiveness against him.) At the end of the day, this is a passing league, and he's a dude who can give you double digit sacks. And he's not a one-trick pony as a pass rusher. He's finesse, but he's savvy, utilizes a lot of different moves and techniques, and has the twitch and quickness to win inside if OTs try to cheat outside. He reminds me of post-breakout Shaq Barrett.

3. Felix Anudike-Uzomah EDGE Kansas State - He's still figuring things out, but he has the tools to be an impact guy. Explosive off the snap with a legit power game. Has enough bend to corner and flatten. Uses his hands well, even if he doesn't have a diverse set of pass rush moves or a developed pass rush plan at this point in time. Gives great effort. He defends the run relatively well. He's a strong dude who can hold his ground and set the edge. Could get better at identifying where the ball is going and figuring out how to defeat the blocking scheme, but again, the tools are there to be a quality run defender. If he develops, he's a good to very good player in both run defense and pass rushing. Brian Orakpo is the guy who came to mind for me if Felix develops well.

4. Derick Hall EDGE Auburn - Great movement skills and very difficult to move in the running game, but I felt his pass rush was too reliant on effort and power. Face up pass rusher who didn't corner or bend well imo. I feel like he's a lesser version of Jermaine Johnson from last year. Physical, strong dude who can run. He'll defend the run for you. He'll get pressure on the QB through effort, power, and relentlessness, but I'm not sure what the pass rush upside is. Might be more of a glue guy than a difference maker. 

5. Zach Harrison EDGE Ohio State - Didn't blow me away. You can see the tools. He's fast and explosive in a straight line. He's a strong dude. But he didn't seem very natural. I didn't feel he made the same impact as the other guys I watched. I can understand why a team will take a shot on him, but he wasn't my cup of tea.

6. Isaiah McGuire EDGE Missouri - Powerful and physical guy with hands that shock the OL and more cornering ability than you expect, but he's not overly explosive or fast. I felt like his effort came and went too. When he was engaged, he was capable of bullying the guy across from him. But the motor seemed to run hot and cold. Seemed like a better fit as a 4-3 DL.

Next on the list:

1. Jared Verse EDGE FSU

2. Byron Young EDGE Tennessee

3. Mike Morris EDGE Michigan

4. Isaiah Foskey EDGE Notre Dame

5. Will McDonald EDGE Iowa State

6. Laiatu Latu EDGE UCLA

How in the world do you have Foskey so low, or Mike Morris for that matter, both should and could be 1st round picks.  Both of them will get drafted before Nolan Smith, Ojulari and Anudike-Uzomah potentially.  Derick Hall is decent but kind of really was disappointing this past year but not as disappointing as McDonald, he is so weak at the point of attack but as a 3/4 OLB maybe he could just use his quickness but he is so small at what 235, production was nuts the previous two years but who knows how he will be in the NFL, really depends on how he works out athletically.

Also Garrett Nelson should be included, along with Myles Murphy.  Nelson played great and dominated games this year, was way more productive than his 5.5 sacks show.  He was a force on a pretty suspect Nebraska D and did not have much help around him.  

 

[Daniel]

8 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

How in the world do you have Foskey so low, or Mike Morris for that matter, both should and could be 1st round picks. 

I have Foskey pretty low, and not in the first round.  I think I watched four ND games before I saw him stand out at all, and that many low to no impact games is extremely concerning.  It's probable that it's a function of luck and which games you happen to see, but still, it's not entirely unreasonable.

As for guys not on there, he said in the post it's a partial list.  Those are the ones he evaluated.

[Ozzy]

9 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I have Foskey pretty low, and not in the first round.  I think I watched four ND games before I saw him stand out at all, and that many low to no impact games is extremely concerning.  It's probable that it's a function of luck and which games you happen to see, but still, it's not entirely unreasonable.

As for guys not on there, he said in the post it's a partial list.  Those are the ones he evaluated.

What is this I watched games of him, what are people just watching highlights after the fact once the season ends or something?  Has he not been on the radar since 2020 because he was for me.  

The dude was impactful as a SOPH and splashed athletic upside and potential on the edge.  Then as a junior last year he was freaking awesome, he had 6 forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries and 10 sacks.  How is that not making an impact?  And he had 10 sacks again this year and 13.5 tackles for loss.  Sure at times he does not make an impact but one could say the same about Will Anderson Jr this year, at times an edge guy does not make an impact depending on how quickly the offense gets rid of the ball or how well they are running the ball.

As a 3/4 OLB type I think Foskey could be very good, probably better as a standup edge guy than a 4/3 DE with his hand on the ground.  Either way if he works out well which he should he will be a 1st round pick.  He was by far the best pass rusher on Notre Dame the past two years and really did not get a ton of help from those around him, sure a few guys splashed here and there with production but no one was a star or super productive outside of Foskey in terms of pass rushers over the past two years.  

[Daniel]

12 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

What is this I watched games of him, what are people just watching highlights after the fact once the season ends or something?  Has he not been on the radar since 2020 because he was for me.  

The dude was impactful as a SOPH and splashed athletic upside and potential on the edge.  Then as a junior last year he was freaking awesome, he had 6 forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries and 10 sacks.  How is that not making an impact?  And he had 10 sacks again this year and 13.5 tackles for loss.  Sure at times he does not make an impact but one could say the same about Will Anderson Jr this year, at times an edge guy does not make an impact depending on how quickly the offense gets rid of the ball or how well they are running the ball.

As a 3/4 OLB type I think Foskey could be very good, probably better as a standup edge guy than a 4/3 DE with his hand on the ground.  Either way if he works out well which he should he will be a 1st round pick.  He was by far the best pass rusher on Notre Dame the past two years and really did not get a ton of help from those around him, sure a few guys splashed here and there with production but no one was a star or super productive outside of Foskey in terms of pass rushers over the past two years.  

Against Stanford, BYU, and Clemson, together (which were the first three ND games I watched), he had 1 sack, 1 tackle for loss, 2 pressures, and 7 total tackles.  He did not look like a first rounder in those games.  Not even close.  I finally watched him against Syracuse, where he was very good, and moved him up accordingly, but even then, he didn't dominate that game.  But I'm not gonna evaluate someone on stuff I haven't seen, or I might as well just use someone else's rankings and evals.

But I think it's completely reasonable to not have him in the first round when he's essentially laid a goose egg against so much good competition this year.

[Ozzy]

16 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Against Stanford, BYU, and Clemson, together (which were the first three ND games I watched), he had 1 sack, 1 tackle for loss, 2 pressures, and 7 total tackles.  He did not look like a first rounder in those games.  Not even close.  I finally watched him against Syracuse, where he was very good, and moved him up accordingly, but even then, he didn't dominate that game.  But I'm not gonna evaluate someone on stuff I haven't seen, or I might as well just use someone else's rankings and evals.

But I think it's completely reasonable to not have him in the first round when he's essentially laid a goose egg against so much good competition this year.

Goose egg?  So then Will Anderson Jr is suspect for the same reason?  Anderson was almost a non impact against Tennessee because they literally schemed him out of the football game and he was basically taken out of the game and provided little impact.  Again it not all that hard in college football today with up tempo offenses and quick passing to take top pass rushers totally out of the football game.  Foskey had 1.5 sacks and a FF against USC, he had a sack in 8 out of 12 games, not exactly sure how that is bad.  

And again if he works out well athletically there will be no issue in him going 1st round.  

 

BJ Ojulari is a damn good player and could no question go late 1st round or early 2nd, he freaking only had 5.5 sacks this year.  Not sure that is going to hurt him much considering the quickness and athletic ability he shows off the edge as a 3/4 OLB.