Packers Trade For Nobody Day 557

[AlexGreen#20]

3 hours ago, hitnhope said:

All true.   But TE don't make huge money anyway.   Trading down a couple rounds in the draft wouldn't matter because Gute does a poor job of using those picks anyway.

It was a way to solve a problem with minimal capital.  The money end of it could be worked out.  There are tons of ways of dealing with it.  The cap is being used by Packer Mgt as an excuse for their inability to get things done.

Dallas Goedert has a 14.25 AAV

Njoku 13.7

Knox 13

Schultz 11

TEs get paid too. 

The cap is and always has been real. The question is how much are you willing to **** yourself over in future years. 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

8 minutes ago, hitnhope said:

Off the top:

DeCosta, Roseman, Snead, Beane, Veach, Loomis, Licht, Tobin, Lynch, Belichick, 

That is 10 that have been better without having to think hard or study it.  I would have to put more time to keep expanding the list, but no doubt would pick others before Gute as well.

People always over rate the quality of their players and organization and you have taken the cake in this regard.   The players that were most key in the last 3 years record were mainly(not all) drafted before Gute got here.

Between the Super Bowl win and the beginning of this year, Roseman’s Eagles were 31-33-1 with a 4-11-1 record two years ago.

Somehow that’s ok, but starting 3-5 after 3 13 win seasons is unacceptable.

I get the frustration with where the team is, but your argument is a bit inconsistent.

[AlexGreen#20]

3 hours ago, hitnhope said:

Agree that losing MVS at that price wasn't a mistake.  the problem is that the Packers leadership instead did nothing.  Sammy Watkins?   Who didn't know he would spend more time in the tub than on the field?  That doesn't equate to problem solving.

Rookies?   You've consistently criticized AR for not throwing to them.  Who didn't know this plan at WR was a failure waiting to happen?

What should they have done? 

And yes, I absolutely will criticize Rodgers for not throwing to rookie receivers. I'll criticize him for not throwing to veterans too. 

I think many of us foresaw this particular QB/WR corps combination being an issue. But again, what is the alternative? Overpay the veteran WRs? That's gonna kill you on defense. 

What would you rather do? Trust Barry to build a defense without Douglas and Campbell? Or hope like hell Rodgers is gonna remove his tampon, get the **** over himself, stop with the victim mindset bull****, bury his pride, and suffer through the ******* unbearable indignity of throwing to professional receivers who might make a mistake once in a while. 

[AlexGreen#20]

26 minutes ago, hitnhope said:

Off the top:

DeCosta, Roseman, Snead, Beane, Veach, Loomis, Licht, Tobin, Lynch, Belichick, 

That is 10 that have been better without having to think hard or study it.  I would have to put more time to keep expanding the list, but no doubt would pick others before Gute as well.

People always over rate the quality of their players and organization and you have taken the cake in this regard.   The players that were most key in the last 3 years record were mainly(not all) drafted before Gute got here.

There are SEVERAL on that list that are highly questionable. 

[packfanfb]

8 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

What should they have done? 

And yes, I absolutely will criticize Rodgers for not throwing to rookie receivers. I'll criticize him for not throwing to veterans too. 

I think many of us foresaw this particular QB/WR corps combination being an issue. But again, what is the alternative? Overpay the veteran WRs? That's gonna kill you on defense. 

What would you rather do? Trust Barry to build a defense without Douglas and Campbell? Or hope like hell Rodgers is gonna remove his tampon, get the **** over himself, stop with the victim mindset bull****, bury his pride, and suffer through the ******* unbearable indignity of throwing to professional receivers who might make a mistake once in a while. 

What's the point of having a bunch of 1st round picks and highly paid players on defense if the defense is still going to be average at the end of the day? Maybe this vision was the wrong idea from the start. I mean, I know we fell short in 2011 when the tables were turned and it was an offense-loaded team, but at least we went 15-1. This plan to be led by a defense that obviously can't lead sucks lol. 

[Mr Anonymous]

2 hours ago, Leader said:

Honestly Anon, I dont count up or rank posters accuracy. Thats not mental baggage I carry around.

Perhaps not keeping score but to your credit you've both pointed out my accuracies and inaccuracies before.

[AlexGreen#20]

7 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

What's the point of having a bunch of 1st round picks and highly paid players on defense if the defense is still going to be average at the end of the day? Maybe this vision was the wrong idea from the start. I mean, I know we fell short in 2011 when the tables were turned and it was an offense-loaded team, but at least we went 15-1. This plan to be led by a defense that obviously can't lead sucks lol. 

Ask LaFleur for hiring the dumbest **** with a coordinator position in this league. 

[Mr Anonymous]

8 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Ask LaFleur for hiring the dumbest **** with a coordinator position in this league. 

If Gute felt empowered he might step up and speak up about the fit of coordinator and approach with the personnel he has provided to said coordinator. But with the way things are currently run in Green Bay, and the job description he signed on for, I can envision why Gute would just pout and seeth instead.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Mr Anonymous

[Old Guy]

Why weren't we sellers before the trade deadline? Aaron Jones? Josh Nijman? Devondre Campbell? Darnell Savage? Oh wait, nobody would have taken him. 

 

[Striker]

2 hours ago, hitnhope said:

Off the top:

DeCosta, Roseman, Snead, Beane, Veach, Loomis, Licht, Tobin, Lynch, Belichick, 

That is 10 that have been better without having to think hard or study it.  I would have to put more time to keep expanding the list, but no doubt would pick others before Gute as well.

People always over rate the quality of their players and organization and you have taken the cake in this regard.   The players that were most key in the last 3 years record were mainly(not all) drafted before Gute got here.

Let's do a little exercise. Consider the start of each of the careers of these GMs. 

DeCosta - Much like your criticism of Gute, DeCosta inherited a well built team from Newsome. This included a franchise QB on a rookie deal (who they have not extended yet), Mark Andrews, an All Pro tackle (Stanley), and an all Pro CB (Humphrey). And they still haven't gotten over that hump. 

Roseman - Actually lost his job to Chip Kelly after serving as GM from 2010 to 2014. Once Kelly was ousted, he oversaw the Super Bowl winning season but also 3 seasons where they missed the playoffs (and this isn't counting the disastrous end of Reid and Kelly years).

Snead - They missed the playoffs his first five seasons. Don't think Packer fans would have been as patient, Jeff Fisher or not.

Beane - Oh hey, one who did not have any losing seasons and rebuilt a team. He's done a good job.

Veach - He has done well but, again, based just on your criticism of Gute as a drafter, Veach went about 4/18 (22 percent) over his first three drafts.

Loomis - Outside of the perception of "trying harder", what has Loomis done better than Packers leadership over his 20 years leading the Saints? He had a first ballot HoF QB for 15 seasons, "only" won one Super Bowl, had teams that missed the playoffs 11 times, and, much like the Packers, has overseen teams that have found new and hilarious ways to lose in the playoffs since winning it all in 2009.

Licht - I already talked about Licht, but to recap:

-His teams missed the playoffs his first six seasons as GM
-He hired Dirk Koetter after the team fired Lovie Smith. 
-He traded up in order to draft a kicker, Robert Aguayo, in the second round who lasted one season with the team.

Tobin - I'm actually trying to wrap my head around you mentioning Tobin, who has been the Bengals Director of Player Personnel for 20 years. The Bengals who missed the playoffs 7 of his first 9 years. And then again from 2016 through 2020.

Lynch - His tenure is kind of weird, as they have a Super Bowl appearance, a championship game appearance, and two seasons where they were drafting in the top 10 and one in the top 12 (and also the Trey Lance trade).

Belichick - I can't argue with Belichick. 

Based on your impatience towards Gute in his fifth season, do you think you'd have been fans of the GMs above? They're easy answers now but, outside of Beane, Belichick, and Lynch (who has had VERY swingy results), the rest of this list has had considerable rough spots early/mid/late that required patience to get through which seem contradictory to your impatience with Gute.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Striker

[hitnhope]

24 minutes ago, Striker said:

 

Based on your impatience towards Gute in his fifth season, do you think you'd have been fans of the GMs above? They're easy answers now but, outside of Beane, Belichick, and Lynch (who has had VERY swingy results), the rest of this list has had considerable rough spots early/mid/late that required patience to get through which seem contradictory to your impatience with Gute.

 

I haven't been impressed by Gute ever.   I just don't see what most here seem to believe.

We have a difference of opinion on Gute's contribution to our good years.  His best moves were signing the Smith Bros.  Next would be drafting Jaire. So good players on an overall below-average to average defense.   He has been below average in most other facets.   The key contributors to the recent winning record were TT carry overs.  Gute was never able to supplement to the needed level to get them over the hump and every roster he put together had glaring holes.

Each above and most likely several others have been better over the tenure Gute has been GM.   That is the window I was thinking of.

 

[hitnhope]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

What should they have done

Maybe add some offensive talent?  The have added very little on that side of the ball in the last 5 years.  

We get that you have an irrational dislike for Rodgers.   We've read you blame the two time reigning MVP for every issue the Packers have had over the past couple years, whether real or imagined, while the rest of the world was giving him MVP trophies.

 

[Leader]

2 hours ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Perhaps not keeping score but to your credit you've both pointed out my accuracies and inaccuracies before.

Wait....you've had accuracies before? I guess I wasnt keep track of them either

[AlexGreen#20]

2 hours ago, Mr Anonymous said:

If Gute felt empowered he might step up and speak up about the fit of coordinator and approach with the personnel he has provided to said coordinator. But with the way things are currently run in Green Bay, and the job description he signed on for, I can envision why Gute would just pout and seeth instead.

That's the opposite of what you want.

In the old system, the HC picked his assistants without GM or leadership interference. 

[hitnhope]

2 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Between the Super Bowl win and the beginning of this year, Roseman’s Eagles were 31-33-1 with a 4-11-1 record two years ago.

Somehow that’s ok, but starting 3-5 after 3 13 win seasons is unacceptable.

I get the frustration with where the team is, but your argument is a bit inconsistent.

What is the goal?  Winning record or Super Bowl wins.

Do you believe Gute will ever make the moves needed to build a SB winner?   I don't for a second, so that is most likely the disconnect.   Roseman identifies problem's and fixes them.     Gute plays the hand he was dealt and doesn't fix anything.   Example is our ST and defensive failures while allowing the offensive talent to diminish.   Failed in all 3 phases.