Packers Trade For Nobody Day 557

[Striker]

8 hours ago, hitnhope said:

How do teams acquire draft capitol?  By making moves to get it.  We don't make those moves instead we sit on our hands.   We don't make trades until they are forced to.

The roster wasn't gutted when Gute started.  The roster was better than it is now.   The head coach had run his cycle and lost the team.   The heart of our winning teams over the last 3 years were TT guys.  The Packers success has largely been offense driven over the past 3 years.   The offense has had very little added by Gute.   You can claim a couple mediocre OL and WR's that Gute added, but they didn't drive anything they were along for the ride.   Rodgers, Adams, Jones, Bakhtiari were the key foundation to offensive success. The current Ol and WR groups are the worst in GB in quite some time, and injuries aren't the reason.  

Pieces of offense were there though the OL and TEs have been flipped as are all the WRs except Cobb and Adams. Most of the defense was completely changed over. Not sure how you could say that a roster that had LBs being Biegel, Brooks, Fackrell, Gilbert, Martinez, CM3, Odom, Ryan, Thomas, CBs being House, King, Randall, Hawkins, and Brown and starting safeties in Burnett and HHCD was better than now (or, you know, the '19-'21 seasons).

Quote

Take off the goggles and realize that at best Gute is an average GM.   No chance he is one of the best.   The idea that anyone other than his family can think that he is a top GM is simply mind boggling to me. 

Rodgers very well might have another SB if our GM got off cruise control and dd things to improve the areas of the roster that were weak.

Going back to those you named. What did most of those GMs do in their first four to five years that stood out above Gute now? Most of them had middling seasons at best. One of them lost their job to Chip Kelly. One of them traded for a second round kicker. The organizations didn't panic, and they've seen success with them since then.

Will Gute actually find that success? I don't know. As I've said, I'm not a fan of him taking half measures with the rebuild this season. But, based on how you're framing Gute's time here, you also would not have had the patience to deal with the early years of the GMs who you would take over Gute/see as top GMs today.

[Striker]

3 hours ago, squire12 said:

If you look at Savage play his first 2 years vs last year and current year you might spot a change.  

Savage was playing the pass rather well.  Might correspo d with a change in DC.

Games		Pass Coverage												Pass Rush					Tackles
Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Int	Tgt	Cmp	Cmp%	Yds	Yds/Cmp	Yds/Tgt	TD	Rat	DADOT	Air	YAC	Bltz	Hrry	QBKD	Sk	Prss	Comb	MTkl	MTkl%
2019	22	GNB	FS	26	14	14	2	30	17	56.7%	197	11.6	6.6	2	71.1	10.6	138	59	17	1	1	0.0	2	55	8	12.7%
2020	23	GNB	FS	26	15	15	4	39	22	56.4%	381	17.3	9.8	2	67.3	12.9	266	115	9	0	1	1.0	2	75	9	10.7%
2021	24	GNB	FS	26	17	17	2	57	37	64.9%	496	13.4	8.7	8	117.4	11.5	244	252	5	2	0	0.0	2	63	10	13.7%
2022	25	GNB	S	26	8	8	0	19	12	63.2%	224	18.7	11.8	1	121.4	11.7	149	75	2	0	0	0.0	0	27	2	6.9

How dare the coaches not possess precognitive abilities.

But also, I think by an grading system you can see Savage's scores plummet from '20 to '21. And in '20 he was also at least average in run defense.

[cannondale]

Great example of Rodgers playing hero ball, holding onto it for too long, not throwing to rookies, not throwing to veterans, and then taking an unnecessary sack when WR's are perfect. He may have even rolled his eyes afterward, alienating the entire western hemisphere ... gasp. And his teammates should hate him for expecting better than this.

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by cannondale

[HokieHigh]

1 hour ago, cannondale said:

Great example of Rodgers playing hero ball, holding onto it for too long, not throwing to rookies, not throwing to veterans, and then taking an unnecessary sack when WR's are perfect. He may have even rolled his eyes afterward, alienating the entire western hemisphere ... gasp. And his teammates should hate him for expecting better than this.

 

Who do you want him to throw to there? Looks like a bad concept as BF points out

[OneTwoSixFive]

7 hours ago, Striker said:

Will Gute actually find that success? I don't know. As I've said, I'm not a fan of him taking half measures with the rebuild this season. But, based on how you're** framing Gute's time here, you also would not have had the patience to deal with the early years of the GMs who you would take over Gute/see as top GMs today.

** hitnhope

[cannondale]

4 hours ago, HokieHigh said:

Who do you want him to throw to there? Looks like a bad concept as BF points out

I was being facetious. Obviously someone and probably multiple someones ran the wrong route, which certain people claim doesn't happen.

Edited November 4, 2022 by cannondale

[pgwingman]

15 hours ago, hitnhope said:

You can trade for draft picks.    Why didn't we sell off Savage 2 years ago for a pick or picks? Why didn't we trade Love last year for a pick or two?  Proactive organizations sell off players that aren't working out.   They trade vets getting toward the end for picks.   Belichick has made a career of doing this.   We don't make moves except during the draft itself.   

We aren't registering our picks as not being what we thought and recouping something.  Instead, we play out the string and then lament that we have to pick 26th in the draft.

Ok so let's sell of Savage and Love. What are they worth? If a guy is playing so bad that he warrants moving in the middle of a contract, they're seldom worth more than a 5th round pick. In the larger scheme of draft capital, that's minimal. If these are first round picks, you're trading them for literally 1% of what you paid for them, if you subscribe to the draft chart theory. Gute would rather hold onto those guys and hope they turn it around, which seems like a fairly rational thing to do. 

[AlexGreen#20]

6 hours ago, cannondale said:

Great example of Rodgers playing hero ball, holding onto it for too long, not throwing to rookies, not throwing to veterans, and then taking an unnecessary sack when WR's are perfect. He may have even rolled his eyes afterward, alienating the entire western hemisphere ... gasp. And his teammates should hate him for expecting better than this.

 

Yep, new receivers in a new offense. That's a thing that they do. 

Want me to post the overthrown deep ball compilation?

[pgwingman]

11 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Damn

I'm bummed

You can borrow some of my credibility in this time of need

[cannondale]

20 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Yep, new receivers in a new offense. That's a thing that they do. 

Want me to post the overthrown deep ball compilation?

Not by Week 8 if the coaches are doing their job. 

And that wasn't your first response. It was "according to whom" as if it wasn't happening

Edited November 4, 2022 by cannondale

[AlexGreen#20]

12 minutes ago, cannondale said:

Not by Week 8 if the coaches are doing their job. 

And that wasn't your first response. It was "according to whom" as if it wasn't happening

Are you seriously laboring under the delusion that even the best teams don't have their receivers misread coverages? Of course they do. I was giving you enough credit to know that the always present caveat of *More than any other team* is there.

The biggest miss of that Bills game was Rodgers blowing that deep ball on the flea flicker, and there hasn't been a ******* word about that duck from Packers twitter.

That's the ******* bias that pisses me off. 

[vegas492]

16 hours ago, hitnhope said:

You can trade for draft picks.    Why didn't we sell off Savage 2 years ago for a pick or picks? Why didn't we trade Love last year for a pick or two?  Proactive organizations sell off players that aren't working out.   They trade vets getting toward the end for picks.   Belichick has made a career of doing this.   We don't make moves except during the draft itself.   

We aren't registering our picks as not being what we thought and recouping something.  Instead, we play out the string and then lament that we have to pick 26th in the draft.

Two years ago, Savage was in year two.  And flashed as a rookie.  Just who is giving up on a starting rookie in year two who has shown flashes of being very good?

Love.  You gonna let your backup QB and possible future starter leave with a 38-39 year old starter?  And presumably for two mid to end of draft picks?

I mean, that is bad business.

I won't fight you on trading a vet say like Preston.  Someone still good and on a decent contract.  But you need pieces behind him that are ready to play.  We didn't have that for P.  And I'm struggling to find another example, unless you wanted to move JA for a haul.

And that too would have been bad business.

Then...if you want to talk about acquiring draft capital, I'll reference the trade down that got us JA and another first.  Those are the kind of moves that I wish we'd do more often.  But....it does take two to tango to get that done.

[vegas492]

6 hours ago, HokieHigh said:

Who do you want him to throw to there? Looks like a bad concept as BF points out

If that play was meant with that post, it had to be sarcasm.  

[vegas492]

48 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Yep, new receivers in a new offense. That's a thing that they do. 

Want me to post the overthrown deep ball compilation?

I would.  But only if you also do a deep ball completion/dropped a dime compilation.

For this year.

[{Family Ghost}]

6 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

 

Then...if you want to talk about acquiring draft capital, I'll reference the trade down that got us JA and another first.  Those are the kind of moves that I wish we'd do more often.  But....it does take two to tango to get that done.

Yep .. it was like Christmas at first with Gute.  Swinging crazy draft day trades .. signing killer free agents.  Now .. basically sitting on his hands, and making poor decisions.