Justin Fields v Lamar Jackson

[seminoles1]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

If you truly believe he's going to have a 60+ untouched rushing TD every week, good for you. 

Is that what I said? Is that what he has to do to maintain an average of 75 yards per game?

You're upset because some of us think it's debatable that a guy setting rushing records for a QB is on the same level as Lamar Jackson as a runner right now. Are you all really that sensitive about Lamar that even thinking someone who is setting records could maybe be on the same level as a runner is ridiculous?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

3 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

Is that what I said? Is that what he has to do to maintain an average of 75 yards per game?

You're upset because some of us think it's debatable that a guy setting rushing records for a QB is on the same level as Lamar Jackson as a runner right now. Are you all really that sensitive about Lamar that even thinking someone who is setting records could maybe be on the same level as a runner is ridiculous?

His "historic" rushing production the past 2 weeks is the result of multiple 60+ yard TD runs. That's just unsustainable, which is the entire point of why these threads are stupid. "Oh he's on pace to shatter some record because he's averaging 140 rushing yards over the past 2 weeks!". It's a joke.

When Justin Fields even keeps up pace with Lamar for 1 complete season, we can talk, but 2-4 games? GTFOH.

[seminoles1]

16 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

His "historic" rushing production the past 2 weeks is the result of multiple 60+ yard TD runs. That's just unsustainable, which is the entire point of why these threads are stupid. "Oh he's on pace to shatter some record because he's averaging 140 rushing yards over the past 2 weeks!". It's a joke.

When Justin Fields even keeps up pace with Lamar for 1 complete season, we can talk, but 2-4 games? GTFOH.

It's not 2-4 games, it's the whole season. That's why his average for the season is 74.9 yards per game. You say inflated by 2 great games? Well of course it is...just like every other player he's going to have some great games in there to inflate averages. He's also going to have bad games that deflate averages. This is how these things work. He doesn't have to keep up the pace from the last 2 weeks because, as you said, that would be unsustainable. But we aren't saying that, otherwise we'd be saying he's on pace to absolutely obliterate all rushing records.

You can't just take away a player's best games, otherwise a lot of record setting seasons would look a lot worse. Otherwise I can go back and take away Lamar's 2 best games and say his season really wasn't that impressive after I took away 270 rushing yards and a TD from him.

I'll ask this: who's a better passer right now, Tua or Brady? Who's a better runner right now, Travis Etienne or Zeke Elliott? You can't only live in the past to make a current assessment. Right now, this season, Justin Fields is in the same tier as Lamar as a runner.

Edited November 16, 2022 by seminoles1

[Ray Reed]

2 hours ago, AntonChigurh said:

Mark Andrews is better than anyone Fields has combined.

He also hasn't played the last 2 weeks in Baltimore wins at Tampa and New Orleans...that was my point. In the same time frame Fields has broken out the last 2 or so games, Lamar has been doing his thing just as good as ever with just as bad of a supporting cast as Fields has right now. It's not like Lamar is capitalizing on working with some great weapons as of late...that's why the whole "yeah but look at the supporting casts" point is a moot one. Since Fields broke out Lamar has been playing with just as bad of one and he's been balling too.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Ray Reed

[-Hope-]

27 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

His "historic" rushing production the past 2 weeks is the result of multiple 60+ yard TD runs. That's just unsustainable, which is the entire point of why these threads are stupid. "Oh he's on pace to shatter some record because he's averaging 140 rushing yards over the past 2 weeks!". It's a joke.

When Justin Fields even keeps up pace with Lamar for 1 complete season, we can talk, but 2-4 games? GTFOH.

area man discovers how averages work

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, seminoles1 said:

You can't just take away a player's best games, otherwise a lot of record setting seasons would look a lot worse. Otherwise I can go back and take away Lamar's 2 best games and say his season really wasn't that impressive after I took away 270 rushing yards and a TD from him.

His first 8 games average rushing yards per game: 53

His last 2 games average rushing yards per game: 162.5

But yeah sure, it's definitely not just two games with 2 huge runs propping him up.

[seminoles1]

12 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

His first 8 games average rushing yards per game: 53

His last 2 games average rushing yards per game: 162.5

But yeah sure, it's definitely not just two games with 2 huge runs propping him up.

You are being purposefully ignorant and ignoring half of my post, so I'm done.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

3 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

You are being purposefully ignorant and ignoring half of my post, so I'm done.

We can revisit this topic after the season is over, but until then it's pointless because his stats are so inflated beyond his normal average we might as well be calling him the next barry sanders if we're going to expect these games to be normal for a guy who has never been a great rushing QB ever in his career, even in college.

[bmorecareful]

3 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

We can revisit this topic after the season is over, but until then it's pointless because his stats are so inflated beyond his normal average we might as well be calling him the next barry sanders if we're going to expect these games to be normal for a guy who has never been a great rushing QB ever in his career, even in college.

That is the point people are failing to factor in… We have to find out whether these games are anomalies or if they’re the new norm… He has great athletic ability nobody can deny that… but what makes Lamar so great is his innate feel and understanding of how to use his gifts… His lateral quickness and ball carrier vision is as good as anyone to every play the game… Fields is fast… no denying that but his actually running ability isn’t like Lamar’s… 

[Yin-Yang]

Purely from a statistical standpoint, yeah you do have to figure that Fields’ recent rushing numbers come back down to earth. Obviously. I mean, no one’s saying otherwise lol. 

But you also can’t just take those games away like they don’t count. Doing so to highlight that the big picture is less impressive than it seems is fine, but you still have to credit the kid for what he did. 

That said, I don’t think looking at rushing production is the best way to compare two QBs at running the ball. Lamar has a much better feel for the pocket and knowing when to takeoff. How much rushing is coming off of design runs vs scrambles? Fields as a player is more comparable to Cam than Lamar right now (which is still a big feat, being compared to the second most prolific rushing QB of the generation).

Edited November 16, 2022 by Yin-Yang

[Pool]

I'm just gonna drop this in here.  There is about 5 players on the Bears offense who are locks to be starters next year. Everyone else is a big question mark. Fields, Mooney, Kmet, Claypool, and Jenkins. That's it and none of those guys are close to all pro level players (outside of potentially Fields). 

[AngusMcFife]

32 minutes ago, Pool said:

I'm just gonna drop this in here.  There is about 5 players on the Bears offense who are locks to be starters next year. Everyone else is a big question mark. Fields, Mooney, Kmet, Claypool, and Jenkins. That's it and none of those guys are close to all pro level players (outside of potentially Fields). 

Mooney and Claypool would be #1 and #2 WR on the Ravens, though. 

[AngusMcFife]

7 hours ago, seminoles1 said:

I'll ask this: who's a better passer right now, Tua or Brady? Who's a better runner right now, Travis Etienne or Zeke Elliott? You can't only live in the past to make a current assessment. Right now, this season, Justin Fields is in the same tier as Lamar as a runner.

You can't live in the past but you also have to recognize when your sample size is too small to make an accurate comparison. Half a season of production cannot be reliably extrapolated. It is much more certain that Lamar will continue his current production than Fields given their histories. But it is certainly possible that Fields continues. I like Fields running style, he's a shifty battering ram. 

Ironically Lamar gets called a running back a lot, but his running style is much more similar to a wide receiver. 

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

Let’s revisit this when Justin Fields wins an mvp award. Accolades matter 

Edited November 17, 2022 by ThatJaxxenGuy

[diamondbull424]

On 11/16/2022 at 9:18 AM, MWil23 said:

The original post that I was quoting was. Context matters. You quoted me after I quoted someone else. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. If you don't think teams have had 8-9 guys in the box against the Bears and their horrific run-centric offense, then I've got some Ocean-Front real estate in Wyoming to sell you.

You said OP, you didn’t say the first post you quoted. How am to know you were redefining the word? What’s more I directly asked what the quality of the OL has to do with a QBs scrambling.

In terms of context, I never stated teams didn’t have 8-9 guys in the box against the Bears. That’s a blatant strawman. In fact I even stated the quality of an OL is meaningful for designed runs.

Quote

Lamar has been used different due to his skill set as a runner as well as Roman so he’s been running with 8-9 dudes in the box and still cranking. The quality of the OL matters in that respect, but it’s simply an offsetting proposition. If the Ravens had a worse OL, Lamar would likely get the same rushing numbers, only they would be coming off scrambles vs designed runs with 9 in the box.

However the greatest impact from Fields rushing efforts to this point have come off scrambling from the pocket vs designed runs. The Miami game had over 100 yards from drop back, one read, scrambles. 

Those kind of rushing numbers aren’t going to depend on quality OL to secure yards. It’s moreso influenced by the quality of second level blocking from WRs and TEs.