QB Talk Once Again.... sigh

[CWood21]

26 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Rodgers what’s to be a Jet. That’s a fact.

Except that's not a fact.  Rodgers chose is his words very carefully.  He said he "intends" to be a Jet.  Remember, this is the same guy that purposely chose to say he was "immunized" against COVID, and then he got COVID and people found he wasn't vaccinated.  He made a very clear appeal to the Raiders to come and get him.  You think that Rodgers is so dead set on the Jets that IF the Raiders would have traded for him, he'd say no?  If the answer is yes, you clearly haven't been paying attention to Rodgers over his career.

28 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Jackson has an exclusive tag. Jets can turn to them if they want to. Doesn’t mean they will or that BAL won’t match what we offer. But it’s a FACT we can talk with him.

Nobody is saying you can't talk to them.  But you can't sit here and say there's no other suitors for Aaron Rodgers, yet you can say the Jets can pivot to another QB.  You're using a glass half full approach to the Jets, and a glass half empty for Rodgers.  You have to be consistent.  If the Jets can pivot to another QB, then the Packers could pivot to another team.  That's the difference.

29 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Matt Ryan or Carson Wentz can be had right now for no draft capital. Obviously not even close to the same level of the other guys. But we are a team that barely missed the playoffs and that was 7-4 at a point last year with the worst QB play in the league. Average QB play gets us in the playoffs likely. That’s a FACT.

I mean, if you want to replace one bottom-5 QB with another bottom-5 QB, go right ahead.  Don't mind me when I'm laughing when the Jets fail to make the playoffs, but also have enough individual talent that they're nowhere close to selecting Caleb Williams and Drake Maye.  It's not the end-all, be-all stat, but both Carson Wentz AND Matt Ryan finished with a lower ANY/A than Zach Wilson did last year.  If you want one of those two washed up QBs as your starting QB, go right ahead.  I'd bet Joe Douglas knows his job is in jeopardy when they miss the playoffs.

31 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

And there’s rumors of Stafford and even Cousins maybe on the block. Not going to put those under FACTS. Bc we don’t know that for sure.

Look at the dead cap associated with those players.  It costs more to trade those players than it does for their respective teams to keep them, so unless I'm getting a strong pick package there's no reason for either team to even consider moving them.  Teams don't just willingly eat a bunch of dead cap for a mediocre return.  Both Stafford and Cousins will be the Rams' and Vikings' starting QBs in 2023.  You can put a TON of money on that one.

34 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Facts are that only Lamar is the only guy that is close to the value of AR. And he can he had for just slightly more than AR and is 13 year younger. 13 years!!! 13 YEARS!!! Let that sink in. He can be had for a big contract what AR already has and 2 1sts. And is 13 years younger.

As I've stated before in this thread, what makes you think the Ravens aren't going to match any deal that the Jets would get Lamar Jackson to agree to?  The Ravens purposely used the non-exclusive franchise tag for a reason.  They're letting other teams do the negotiating on their behalf.  They're going to match just about any offer on him.  Since the franchise tag was created, there's only been ONE player on a franchise tag (Sean Gilbert in 1998) who signed an offer sheet with another team and the original team didn't match.  Let that sink in.

[Bobby816]

10 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Except that's not a fact.  Rodgers chose is his words very carefully.  He said he "intends" to be a Jet.  Remember, this is the same guy that purposely chose to say he was "immunized" against COVID, and then he got COVID and people found he wasn't vaccinated.  He made a very clear appeal to the Raiders to come and get him.  You think that Rodgers is so dead set on the Jets that IF the Raiders would have traded for him, he'd say no?  If the answer is yes, you clearly haven't been paying attention to Rodgers over his career.

Nobody is saying you can't talk to them.  But you can't sit here and say there's no other suitors for Aaron Rodgers, yet you can say the Jets can pivot to another QB.  You're using a glass half full approach to the Jets, and a glass half empty for Rodgers.  You have to be consistent.  If the Jets can pivot to another QB, then the Packers could pivot to another team.  That's the difference.

I mean, if you want to replace one bottom-5 QB with another bottom-5 QB, go right ahead.  Don't mind me when I'm laughing when the Jets fail to make the playoffs, but also have enough individual talent that they're nowhere close to selecting Caleb Williams and Drake Maye.  It's not the end-all, be-all stat, but both Carson Wentz AND Matt Ryan finished with a lower ANY/A than Zach Wilson did last year.  If you want one of those two washed up QBs as your starting QB, go right ahead.  I'd bet Joe Douglas knows his job is in jeopardy when they miss the playoffs.

Look at the dead cap associated with those players.  It costs more to trade those players than it does for their respective teams to keep them, so unless I'm getting a strong pick package there's no reason for either team to even consider moving them.  Teams don't just willingly eat a bunch of dead cap for a mediocre return.  Both Stafford and Cousins will be the Rams' and Vikings' starting QBs in 2023.  You can put a TON of money on that one.

As I've stated before in this thread, what makes you think the Ravens aren't going to match any deal that the Jets would get Lamar Jackson to agree to?  The Ravens purposely used the non-exclusive franchise tag for a reason.  They're letting other teams do the negotiating on their behalf.  They're going to match just about any offer on him.  Since the franchise tag was created, there's only been ONE player on a franchise tag (Sean Gilbert in 1998) who signed an offer sheet with another team and the original team didn't match.  Let that sink in.

The 2 aren’t at all alike.

 

You’ve said countless times that the Jets don’t have other options. I just named several. So they do. Clearly AR is option 1. But to state they don’t have options is purely false.

 

If you want to play the game that why can’t AR go to any other team. That’s the equivalent to me saying we can trade for any starting QB in this league. we both know both aren’t true. Fact is no other team has tried to get AR. Fact is is Jets do have options even if they move on from AR. Saying 30 other teams are options to trade AR till is false. 90% of those teams don’t need him. And the other 10% haven’t even asked about him. So you can wish in your head other teams want him. But fact is is it’s only been the Jets so far. 

 

 

[CWood21]

32 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

The 2 aren’t at all alike.

 

You’ve said countless times that the Jets don’t have other options. I just named several. So they do. Clearly AR is option 1. But to state they don’t have options is purely false.

 

If you want to play the game that why can’t AR go to any other team. That’s the equivalent to me saying we can trade for any starting QB in this league. we both know both aren’t true. Fact is no other team has tried to get AR. Fact is is Jets do have options even if they move on from AR. Saying 30 other teams are options to trade AR till is false. 90% of those teams don’t need him. And the other 10% haven’t even asked about him. So you can wish in your head other teams want him. But fact is is it’s only been the Jets so far.

If you haven't picked up on Rodgers' passive aggressiveness yet, you will in due time.  That's not him.  He's not going to come out and say exactly what he wants/needs.  He's always going to hedge his bet, and he's always going to dance around what he wants.  That's Aaron Rodgers for you.  He made it very clear he wanted to play with Davante Adams again.  He could have EASILY said he would only play for the New York Jets.  But he didn't.  He said it would have been special to play with a certain former teammate (Adams) and that he "intended" to play for the New York Jets.  Nowhere in his interview did he say he would only play with the Jets.

You choose to believe there are other QB options available.  Yet, you seem to think that the same optimism I might have on other suitors having interest in Rodgers is farfetched.  You can't have optimism on one side, but not the other.  You have to have the same level of optimism.  If you're Minnesota, why would you eat almost $49M in dead cap for a mediocre return on Kirk Cousins?  If you're the Rams, why would you eat $74M in dead cap for a mediocre return for Matthew Stafford?  You refuse to look at the other teams' perspective, and there's absolutely ZERO reason for those teams to trade their QBs without a hefty return on their QBs.  Not only are those teams giving up their win-now QBs, they're eating a TON of dead cap to do so.

And I don't think there's a bunch of other teams that could trade for them.  But I'd venture a guess that there's more than just the Jets interested in Rodgers.  It's possible (not necessarily likely) that teams like Miami, New England, Indianapolis, Washington, and San Francisco could have interest in Aaron Rodgers.  You ASSUME because the Jets have been the only team that has been linked to him that they're the only team in on him.

[Bobby816]

4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

If you haven't picked up on Rodgers' passive aggressiveness yet, you will in due time.  That's not him.  He's not going to come out and say exactly what he wants/needs.  He's always going to hedge his bet, and he's always going to dance around what he wants.  That's Aaron Rodgers for you.  He made it very clear he wanted to play with Davante Adams again.  He could have EASILY said he would only play for the New York Jets.  But he didn't.  He said it would have been special to play with a certain former teammate (Adams) and that he "intended" to play for the New York Jets.  Nowhere in his interview did he say he would only play with the Jets.

You choose to believe there are other QB options available.  Yet, you seem to think that the same optimism I might have on other suitors having interest in Rodgers is farfetched.  You can't have optimism on one side, but not the other.  You have to have the same level of optimism.  If you're Minnesota, why would you eat almost $49M in dead cap for a mediocre return on Kirk Cousins?  If you're the Rams, why would you eat $74M in dead cap for a mediocre return for Matthew Stafford?  You refuse to look at the other teams' perspective, and there's absolutely ZERO reason for those teams to trade their QBs without a hefty return on their QBs.  Not only are those teams giving up their win-now QBs, they're eating a TON of dead cap to do so.

And I don't think there's a bunch of other teams that could trade for them.  But I'd venture a guess that there's more than just the Jets interested in Rodgers.  It's possible (not necessarily likely) that teams like Miami, New England, Indianapolis, Washington, and San Francisco could have interest in Aaron Rodgers.  You ASSUME because the Jets have been the only team that has been linked to him that they're the only team in on him.

Please do tell me teams that you think would want him?

Criteria would be they don’t have a QB obviously. Makes sense for them in the small window he’d play. Biggest thing that could afford him (keep in mind you have to pay him a ton for a few years, not just his smaller cap hit number this year).

 

I’d love to hear this list. Only team I’ve heard you mention is SF. And it makes 0 sense for them to get him when they have Purdy (and even Lance).

[CWood21]

3 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Please do tell me teams that you think would want him?

Criteria would be they don’t have a QB obviously. Makes sense for them in the small window he’d play. Biggest thing that could afford him (keep in mind you have to pay him a ton for a few years, not just his smaller cap hit number this year).

 

I’d love to hear this list. Only team I’ve heard you mention is SF. And it makes 0 sense for them to get him when they have Purdy (and even Lance).

San Francisco makes sense despite your opinion otherwise.  The 49ers have shown interest in Rodgers in the past, and we're not really sure what Purdy's future holds given the injury.  He could be ready Week 1 or it could drag into the season and not be ready.  We honestly don't know.  So if Rodgers really is a one-and-done QB, then it does make sense for them to acquire Rodgers and allow Purdy to recover at his own speed rather than worrying about him being ready for the start of the season.  And we have no idea how the 49ers value Trey Lance.  It's not exactly like he lit the world on fire when he was healthy and playing.  They could easily flip him for other draft picks.

I think the Commanders are a very obvious fit for Rodgers.  I'm skeptical Rodgers wants anything to do with that ownership situation, but if that sorts itself out I could see them in play.  They've got the skill position players that Rodgers would like, and I don't think their OL is anything special but neither is the Jets' OL.  They've also got a good defense.

If you want a real darkhorse, Indianapolis.  I'd put them as very unlikely, but if they don't like the QB position at 4 than they could trade down and accumulate more picks before trading for Rodgers.

[Bobby816]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

San Francisco makes sense despite your opinion otherwise.  The 49ers have shown interest in Rodgers in the past, and we're not really sure what Purdy's future holds given the injury.  He could be ready Week 1 or it could drag into the season and not be ready.  We honestly don't know.  So if Rodgers really is a one-and-done QB, then it does make sense for them to acquire Rodgers and allow Purdy to recover at his own speed rather than worrying about him being ready for the start of the season.  And we have no idea how the 49ers value Trey Lance.  It's not exactly like he lit the world on fire when he was healthy and playing.  They could easily flip him for other draft picks.

I think the Commanders are a very obvious fit for Rodgers.  I'm skeptical Rodgers wants anything to do with that ownership situation, but if that sorts itself out I could see them in play.  They've got the skill position players that Rodgers would like, and I don't think their OL is anything special but neither is the Jets' OL.  They've also got a good defense.

If you want a real darkhorse, Indianapolis.  I'd put them as very unlikely, but if they don't like the QB position at 4 than they could trade down and accumulate more picks before trading for Rodgers.

We do know what it holds though. You’re turning a blind eye to it bc it fits yoir narrative. His recovery has him able to play the regular season. Even if it’s delayed he misses maybe 1-4 weeks. Let’s not forget they drafted a QB in around 1 not long ago and are likely fine playing him if it’s even for a week or 2. SF doesn’t have much cap either.
 

Washington I doubt. As you stated you think AR what’s to go to a team like that with owners on the way out and not a whole lot of weapons either. Not exactly desirable with just able to sell AR a defense and McLaurin. It’s gonna take more than that. They also don’t even have 3mill in cap space. 
 

And Indy is drafting a QB. So not entertaining that

[SDotNova]

The chances of some dark horse team showing up and outbidding the Jets are as slim as the Jets deciding to go after another QB. Both are equally unrealistic. Not even sure why either scenario is even being entertained.

SF is not going to come out of nowhere and spend $60M on a 1 year maybe 2 year stop gap. Purdy looked solid and they will continue developing him. The Jets are doing it because it buys us time to course correct and find a FQB.

Edited March 24, 2023 by SDotNova

[Rockice_8]

35 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

San Francisco makes sense despite your opinion otherwise.  The 49ers have shown interest in Rodgers in the past, and we're not really sure what Purdy's future holds given the injury.  He could be ready Week 1 or it could drag into the season and not be ready.  We honestly don't know.  So if Rodgers really is a one-and-done QB, then it does make sense for them to acquire Rodgers and allow Purdy to recover at his own speed rather than worrying about him being ready for the start of the season.  And we have no idea how the 49ers value Trey Lance.  It's not exactly like he lit the world on fire when he was healthy and playing.  They could easily flip him for other draft picks.

I think the Commanders are a very obvious fit for Rodgers.  I'm skeptical Rodgers wants anything to do with that ownership situation, but if that sorts itself out I could see them in play.  They've got the skill position players that Rodgers would like, and I don't think their OL is anything special but neither is the Jets' OL.  They've also got a good defense.

If you want a real darkhorse, Indianapolis.  I'd put them as very unlikely, but if they don't like the QB position at 4 than they could trade down and accumulate more picks before trading for Rodgers.

Indy come on man you seem very level headed for the most part but are grasping badly here.  Why in the world would Rodgers go to INDY who is rebuilding?  He wouldn't waste the last year or 2 of his career there.  

LV was a realistic landing spot because of Adams but they are out and there's no one left but NY.  Could there be an 11th hour team jumping in, maybe, but those teams aren't coming in with a 1st round pick + like what you are expecting they come in a low ball.  That team doesn't exists no matter how bad you want to talk yourself into it.  

The Jets offer will always be the best you're likely to get.  Thinking about some miracle last min offer is pyrite.

[Dr A W Niloc]

On 3/20/2023 at 10:32 AM, dll2000 said:

You guys ever play Hearts? 

If you don't, the object of card game is to not take any points.

 

So, kind of like the Denver "offense"?

[Bobby816]

12 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Indy come on man you seem very level headed for the most part but are grasping badly here.  Why in the world would Rodgers go to INDY who is rebuilding?  He wouldn't waste the last year or 2 of his career there.  

LV was a realistic landing spot because of Adams but they are out and there's no one left but NY.  Could there be an 11th hour team jumping in, maybe, but those teams aren't coming in with a 1st round pick + like what you are expecting they come in a low ball.  That team doesn't exists no matter how bad you want to talk yourself into it.  

The Jets offer will always be the best you're likely to get.  Thinking about some miracle last min offer is pyrite.

Yup. The logic the teams like SF and Indy and such are going after him is the equivalent to us saying Burrow and Herbert are coming up on the last years of their deals… so we can trade for them if we can’t get AR.

[SDotNova]

8 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Yup. The logic the teams like SF and Indy and such are going after him is the equivalent to us saying Burrow and Herbert are coming up on the last years of their deals… so we can trade for them if we can’t get AR.

Spot on. Was trying to say something similar but your example is spot on. It’s just not realistic. The Raiders made sense. Even Miami before they picked up Tua’s option made sense.

[Jag68Sid87]

It seems to me that if Green Bay insists on the #13 pick, then the Jets can wait it out. If they insist on a first-rounder in general, then the Packers can wait it out.

Draft week, we will probably learn the answer to whether the Packers want #13, or if it is just any first-rounder that they seek.

Then it will be a matter of conditional or unconditional first-rounder, and the year. 

If pick #13 is made by the Jets, I can see this dragging until training camp. Otherwise, it will be done on draft week. 

[Bobby816]

26 minutes ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

It seems to me that if Green Bay insists on the #13 pick, then the Jets can wait it out. If they insist on a first-rounder in general, then the Packers can wait it out.

Draft week, we will probably learn the answer to whether the Packers want #13, or if it is just any first-rounder that they seek.

Then it will be a matter of conditional or unconditional first-rounder, and the year. 

If pick #13 is made by the Jets, I can see this dragging until training camp. Otherwise, it will be done on draft week. 

They can have 13 as long as they give us 15 and we can add a sweetener like a conditional Pick next year

[KodiakThunder]

16 minutes ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

It seems to me that if Green Bay insists on the #13 pick, then the Jets can wait it out. If they insist on a first-rounder in general, then the Packers can wait it out.

Draft week, we will probably learn the answer to whether the Packers want #13, or if it is just any first-rounder that they seek.

Then it will be a matter of conditional or unconditional first-rounder, and the year. 

If pick #13 is made by the Jets, I can see this dragging until training camp. Otherwise, it will be done on draft week. 

I dont think thats it at all. Green Bay has no real bargaining position. They need to get rid of Rodgers as bad as the Jets need him.

Why?

because if they dont start Jordan Love, they are going to a) risk alienating the guy they plan on taking over the franchise and b) would be forced to sit him in favor of Rodgers, paying way to much to their Qb's and not being able to really see what Love can do before resigning him and c) they Risk alienating perhaps the greatest QB that's ever graced a packers uniform. 

The front office wants to trade him, he wants to be traded. The worst thing GB can do is not make this trade. He isn't going anywhere else. Even if he decides to retire the packers get nothing at all for him.  No fan wants to see their beloved players treated with such little respect. 

This trade will get done. Joe D knows the Packers need this as badly. At this point, I'd expect the Jets to offer a 2nd and conditional 1st next year. 

The packers want to compare Rodgers to Stafford, Wilson or Watson. This is none of those. In all 3 other cases there was no question of retirement. And also, as of now 2 of those 3 turned out incredibly poorly for the team getting the QB. 

This will get done, most likely sometime in April. Packers GM just worried about optics of not getting a 1st but the downside of not making the deal is much much worse. Even if Rodgers decides to retire, the packers get nothing anyway. Joe D knows this. He knows he wont play for the Packers next year and there's noone else he would waive his no-trade clause for. Either Packers trade him for fair value or they get nothing at all for him. 

In short, the Jets, while desperate, have the bargaining power here. Joe D is a master at this. He knows he can play chicken here and win.

[Bobby816]

I think the leverage thing is dumb. Who cares. Just kind of meet in the middle.

As far as leverage… we have the leverage of that GB has to pretty much get rid of him and we are the only team interested and that he’s said he wants to go to us.

Where they have leverage is time. There’s not a thing making them do anything before the draft. And let’s say they don’t love the idea of our 2nd rounder… they can wait all the way until mandatory camp to do anything. We can’t force that.

 

All this talk that we can play hardball is false. We can go sign Matt Ryan (just an example) and have way better QB play than last year and still have cap for AR. And say we’re out on him bc we gave you a deadline and you didn’t reach it. GB calls in TC and says they’ll do an offer we think is good. We saying no? No way. We’d still take him. We’d just have a good backup then in Ryan.