QB or Not QB-That is is Question

[Millenhater]

If we stick with Goff we need to make sure we set him up for success.  The best way to do that is make sure he can operate from the pocket.  To do that we may have to invest a high pick to grab a RG.  I like the kid from Florida but I don't know if I'm willing to spend our second 1st on him.  Not to familiar with who the other IOL are in this draft but I think one of those two 2nd rounders or possibly our 3rd round pick will need to be spent on an OG.

[Karnage84]

9 minutes ago, Millenhater said:

If we stick with Goff we need to make sure we set him up for success.  The best way to do that is make sure he can operate from the pocket.  To do that we may have to invest a high pick to grab a RG.  I like the kid from Florida but I don't know if I'm willing to spend our second 1st on him.  Not to familiar with who the other IOL are in this draft but I think one of those two 2nd rounders or possibly our 3rd round pick will need to be spent on an OG.

I agree with this sentiment. I think we should re-sign Evan Brown. He was great filling in for Ragnow and has shown to be versatile and can start in at least 2 spots. I'm not sure how much longer Ragnow is going to be able to play with all of his injuries. It would be nice to have a solid backup plan for him. 

Add a young OG into the mix or possibly even find a guy to eventually replace Decker and play them at RG in the meantime. We should be investing in this OL and keeping it a strength.

[Nnivolcm]

3 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

I agree with this sentiment. I think we should re-sign Evan Brown. He was great filling in for Ragnow and has shown to be versatile and can start in at least 2 spots. I'm not sure how much longer Ragnow is going to be able to play with all of his injuries. It would be nice to have a solid backup plan for him. 

Add a young OG into the mix or possibly even find a guy to eventually replace Decker and play them at RG in the meantime. We should be investing in this OL and keeping it a strength.

More importantly, sabotage all of Ben Johnson's HCing opportunities...

[Louis Friend]

3 hours ago, Millenhater said:

If we stick with Goff we need to make sure we set him up for success.  The best way to do that is make sure he can operate from the pocket.  To do that we may have to invest a high pick to grab a RG.  I like the kid from Florida but I don't know if I'm willing to spend our second 1st on him.  Not to familiar with who the other IOL are in this draft but I think one of those two 2nd rounders or possibly our 3rd round pick will need to be spent on an OG.

I really like Jarrett Patterson from Notre Dame. We could get him in the second and sign Jonah Jackson to an extension and we've got our OL locked up for at least the next 3 seasons. 

[Superduperman]

I would like them to look at Oluwatimi. Really excellent player and I bet he'd be fine at either guard spot as well a center.

[teude]

https://www.nfl.com/news/lions-do-not-consider-current-starter-jared-goff-to-be-bridge-qb

[Louis Friend]

41 minutes ago, teude said:

https://www.nfl.com/news/lions-do-not-consider-current-starter-jared-goff-to-be-bridge-qb

I was looking at Lions contracts last night at work. It was slow and I was bored. 

Goff's contract is really not bad. $30 million each of the next two seasons sounds bad when you are 1-6 and looking at taking a QB at the #1 pick. But realistically, it's pretty fair pay for a seasoned starting QB. Especially one who is top 12 in almost every QB stat and fighting for a playoff spot. Goff's dead cap would be still be significant enough that cutting him and signing someone else, even a draft pick, would still hover that amount allocated to the QB position around $30M. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the Lions sign him to a restructure extension over the next 3-4 years. He'd only be 32 at the end of the contract and they'd get prime Goff while extending their window to find another QB. 

There are much more worrisome contracts the Lions need to address. Vaitai is due $25 million over the next two seasons. We spend the most money on our OL, and it's important to due so, but we can't just cipher money to someone like Vaitai who is the least valuable OL, is constantly injured, and has been easily replaced by backups this season. Either re-sign Evan Brown for that role or draft a RG and use that money elsewhere. I'm also really not happy with Deckers contract.

Michael Brockers needs to be cut. Period. Lions have to truly evaluate if Romeo Okwara is worth his contract moving forward. These last 5 games are really important for him. 

We are spending next to nothing on TE, LB, and WR the next couple years. All of our players there are young and on small contracts. But new contracts will be due in 3-4 years, and that's why I think that's truly Goff's window for the Lions. 

[Sllim Pickens]

22 hours ago, Louis Friend said:

I was looking at Lions contracts last night at work. It was slow and I was bored. 

Goff's contract is really not bad. $30 million each of the next two seasons sounds bad when you are 1-6 and looking at taking a QB at the #1 pick. But realistically, it's pretty fair pay for a seasoned starting QB. Especially one who is top 12 in almost every QB stat and fighting for a playoff spot. Goff's dead cap would be still be significant enough that cutting him and signing someone else, even a draft pick, would still hover that amount allocated to the QB position around $30M. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the Lions sign him to a restructure extension over the next 3-4 years. He'd only be 32 at the end of the contract and they'd get prime Goff while extending their window to find another QB. 

There are much more worrisome contracts the Lions need to address. Vaitai is due $25 million over the next two seasons. We spend the most money on our OL, and it's important to due so, but we can't just cipher money to someone like Vaitai who is the least valuable OL, is constantly injured, and has been easily replaced by backups this season. Either re-sign Evan Brown for that role or draft a RG and use that money elsewhere. I'm also really not happy with Deckers contract.

Michael Brockers needs to be cut. Period. Lions have to truly evaluate if Romeo Okwara is worth his contract moving forward. These last 5 games are really important for him. 

We are spending next to nothing on TE, LB, and WR the next couple years. All of our players there are young and on small contracts. But new contracts will be due in 3-4 years, and that's why I think that's truly Goff's window for the Lions. 

I agree with a lot of this but a few comments. 

Vaitai has not been available, however he was pretty solid in 15 starts last year.  Given his injury is a back injury, it likely will linger so cutting him is probably the right option either way.  I think our OL would be better if he was playing, if he played at last years level, but dont trust that with a back injury.  He is the 11th highest paid OG and definitely not worth that however contracts will be bigger this year and he will fall down that list some. Side note, Sportrac has Evan Brown as a projected 10M a year player in free agency. 

Decker I agree is tough.  It jumps $5M in cap hit next year and not sure he is worth that.  But also there would be 17M in dead cap if cut so thats not going to happen.  Maybe he will sign a short extension and push some cap hit out a couple of years.  

Okwara's deal is bad for sure but cutting him only saves 7.5M next year. So all he has to show is he is worth the 7.5M to stick around but not sure he will do that.  Its a tough injury to come back from and in 25 snaps yesterday, he didn't record a stat.  I am guessing either he or Harris are released if not both.  

WR I hope we resign Chark or draft another WR to keep this a strength.  We have 2 more years of ARSB at a reasonable price but will need to pay him then.  I still think they need to take a page out of baseballs book and extend him early to spread out his future cap hit over more years.  He is due just over 1Mil the next two years, so offer him a 4 or 5 year extension for 80M but spread that over the next 6 or 7 years at 12-14M per year.  That way he gets paid more now, can invest now so that money is worth more, and we will never have that 22M a year cap hit in one season.  

 

[Just Want A Title]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I agree with a lot of this but a few comments. 

Vaitai has not been available, however he was pretty solid in 15 starts last year.  Given his injury is a back injury, it likely will linger so cutting him is probably the right option either way.  I think our OL would be better if he was playing, if he played at last years level, but dont trust that with a back injury.  He is the 11th highest paid OG and definitely not worth that however contracts will be bigger this year and he will fall down that list some. Side note, Sportrac has Evan Brown as a projected 10M a year player in free agency. 

Decker I agree is tough.  It jumps $5M in cap hit next year and not sure he is worth that.  But also there would be 17M in dead cap if cut so thats not going to happen.  Maybe he will sign a short extension and push some cap hit out a couple of years.  

Okwara's deal is bad for sure but cutting him only saves 7.5M next year. So all he has to show is he is worth the 7.5M to stick around but not sure he will do that.  Its a tough injury to come back from and in 25 snaps yesterday, he didn't record a stat.  I am guessing either he or Harris are released if not both.  

WR I hope we resign Chark or draft another WR to keep this a strength.  We have 2 more years of ARSB at a reasonable price but will need to pay him then.  I still think they need to take a page out of baseballs book and extend him early to spread out his future cap hit over more years.  He is due just over 1Mil the next two years, so offer him a 4 or 5 year extension for 80M but spread that over the next 6 or 7 years at 12-14M per year.  That way he gets paid more now, can invest now so that money is worth more, and we will never have that 22M a year cap hit in one season.  

 

I think we need to leave Taylor Decker right where he is at.  He is tough and consistently plays at a high-level.  Competent LTs are not easy to find or replace.  The folks that get let go should be the under-performers.  Michael Brockers, Big H, Charles Harris, Logan Steenburg, Julian Okwara, Amani Oruwariye and Austin Bryant would all fall into that category.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Just Want A Title

[Sllim Pickens]

1 hour ago, Just Want A Title said:

I think we need to leave Taylor Decker right where he is at.  He is tough and consistently plays at a high-level.  Competent LTs are not easy to find or replace.  The folks that get let go should be the under-performers.  Michael Brockers, Big H, Charles Harris, Logan Steenburg, Julian Okwara, Amani Oruwariye and Austin Bryant would all fall into that category.

I agree completely, was joust mainly pointing out his contract really jumps this year and next.  Would like to extend him to ease the hit but also dont want to hurt us in the future.  

[Louis Friend]

Question, what do you think of TCU QB Max Duggan? 

I don't think he deserved to be in heisman discussions, but I think he played damn well this season and TCU definitely deserved a playoff spot despite their loss to K-State. He's not a running QB but he's a QB that can run. And he's big enough that people won't discount his size like Bryce Young. I don't think he's a first rounder, but I do think this is the highest his stock is going to get and if he were enter the draft, where do you see him slotted? 

[Karnage84]

17 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

Question, what do you think of TCU QB Max Duggan? 

I don't think he deserved to be in heisman discussions, but I think he played damn well this season and TCU definitely deserved a playoff spot despite their loss to K-State. He's not a running QB but he's a QB that can run. And he's big enough that people won't discount his size like Bryce Young. I don't think he's a first rounder, but I do think this is the highest his stock is going to get and if he were enter the draft, where do you see him slotted? 

I don't know enough about him right now but there's definitely some good things here. 

6'2, 210 lbs. He had 110 rushing yards against K-State to go with his 250+ passing yards. Heisman candidate and all that. 

I think he's going to make a statement during the CFP. The Big 12 isn't full of high level defenses so it'll be interesting to see him matchup against some of the league's best. 

[Just Want A Title]

4 hours ago, Louis Friend said:

Question, what do you think of TCU QB Max Duggan? 

I don't think he deserved to be in heisman discussions, but I think he played damn well this season and TCU definitely deserved a playoff spot despite their loss to K-State. He's not a running QB but he's a QB that can run. And he's big enough that people won't discount his size like Bryce Young. I don't think he's a first rounder, but I do think this is the highest his stock is going to get and if he were enter the draft, where do you see him slotted? 

To me, he would make a solid #2QB which the Lions need.  He seems to have the tools to potentially be more than that but I could see him winning a back-up QB role as a rookie.

[Louis Friend]

Max Duggan declared for the draft. I would take him with our Minny pick. Let him sit behind Goff and learn the offense.

[Lions017]

Duggan is not really considered a pro prospect, is he? 

If you can get him with like....a fifth round pick? Maybe he can become a backup. 

Statistically speaking, though, the vast majority of starting QB's in the league come from Rounds 1 & 2. There are a few from later rounds but the odds are very long that those guys turn into more than a backup.