2023 Offseason Thread

[Karnage84]

55 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

I felt like it was a typical Dan Campbell move. Basically "F*** you Green Bay, come and stop us." And he knew they couldn't.

Was it brilliant, yes. But I think DC is seriously undervalued as a tactician. I think he puts in a lot of thought into that clock management, but also bases on the ebb and flow for the game. At the end of the day, we as fans will say kudos for everything that works, but when the same call doesn't work.... "WTF were you thinking!"

I do think he's had some growing pains (first Minnesota game comes to mind) but I also think he's a lot smarter than he is given credit for. Especially on a national level, they get caught up in the knee caps and other sound bites. The only time that we seem to have been taken seriously was after we beat Green Bay in Lambeau. 

That declining of the penalty will be ignored and I would guess at least 6-7/10 coaches (maybe more) would have accepted it for the 1st down. I think Dan learned a lot more under Sean Payton than maybe we've realized or give him credit for. 

[Sllim Pickens]

2 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

I do think he's had some growing pains (first Minnesota game comes to mind) but I also think he's a lot smarter than he is given credit for. Especially on a national level, they get caught up in the knee caps and other sound bites. The only time that we seem to have been taken seriously was after we beat Green Bay in Lambeau. 

That declining of the penalty will be ignored and I would guess at least 6-7/10 coaches (maybe more) would have accepted it for the 1st down. I think Dan learned a lot more under Sean Payton than maybe we've realized or give him credit for. 

I agree with this.  It really first hit me last year when he let Lynn go and took over play-calling duties.  The offense took off then and although a lot of that also likely goes to Ben Johnson, DC had a big part in it.  He obviously is a guy players want to run through a wall for but he is far more than just a rah rah leader and his game-plans and execution, other than clock management, have been very smart especially with a team lacking talent overall.  In two years he has made tough calls on staff mid-season and both times we improved greatly after the move.  Whether thats all on DC or not, those are intelligent and risky moves to make mid-season and he would get the heat if they didn't work out but doesn't seem to be getting the credit when they did.  

[Karnage84]

1 minute ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I agree with this.  It really first hit me last year when he let Lynn go and took over play-calling duties.  The offense took off then and although a lot of that also likely goes to Ben Johnson, DC had a big part in it.  He obviously is a guy players want to run through a wall for but he is far more than just a rah rah leader and his game-plans and execution, other than clock management, have been very smart especially with a team lacking talent overall.  In two years he has made tough calls on staff mid-season and both times we improved greatly after the move.  Whether thats all on DC or not, those are intelligent and risky moves to make mid-season and he would get the heat if they didn't work out but doesn't seem to be getting the credit when they did.  

It just makes me cringe even more watching national stuff talking about him. They can't get past the easy narrative and we are definitely overlooked as a team. However, I do think we'll be viewed as the NFC North favourite by a lot of pundits in more of a bandwagon type of thing. 

He identified issues with Lynn, fired him, identified a talented internal candidate in Johnson and then collectively worked together to have a top 10 offense to finish out the season. Then he promotes Johnson but BJ is running the offense within the structure that Dan allows. I'd guess he is involved in the game planning (as is Goff). 

Campbell didn't have a ton of experience having to make decisions in real-time, which you would have to as a coordinator. So I can see how/why there'd be a bit of a learning curve. He's at least seemed to figure it out unlike Nathaniel Hackett who needed to hire someone to help him. 

[Just Want A Title]

7 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

It just makes me cringe even more watching national stuff talking about him. They can't get past the easy narrative and we are definitely overlooked as a team. However, I do think we'll be viewed as the NFC North favourite by a lot of pundits in more of a bandwagon type of thing. 

He identified issues with Lynn, fired him, identified a talented internal candidate in Johnson and then collectively worked together to have a top 10 offense to finish out the season. Then he promotes Johnson but BJ is running the offense within the structure that Dan allows. I'd guess he is involved in the game planning (as is Goff). 

Campbell didn't have a ton of experience having to make decisions in real-time, which you would have to as a coordinator. So I can see how/why there'd be a bit of a learning curve. He's at least seemed to figure it out unlike Nathaniel Hackett who needed to hire someone to help him. 

Honestly, I don't think we will really win a surprising number of people over until we win a playoff game.  The famous Bill Parcells quote:  "you are what your record says you are" still holds true.  The Lions played really well going 8-2 in their last 10 games.  They got a huge win in Green Bay to end the season.  It is very clear that Dan Campbell and the Lions have taken a big step forward.  

The bottom line:  Our final record was 9-8.  We got left on the outside of the playoffs looking in.  We have two first-round picks, two second-round picks and enough salary cap space to sign at least one impact free agent in addition to the bargin-hunting that Brad Holmes seems to pull off to propel this team forward.  

Edited January 13, 2023 by Just Want A Title

[Sllim Pickens]

2 hours ago, Just Want A Title said:

Honestly, I don't think we will really win a surprising number of people over until we win a playoff game.  The famous Bill Parcells quote:  "you are what your record says you are" still holds true.  The Lions played really going 8-2 in their last 10 games.  They got a huge win in Green Bay to end the season.  It is very clear that Dan Campbell and the Lions have taken a big step forward.  

The bottom line:  Our final record was 9-8.  We got left on the outside of the playoffs looking in.  We have two first-round picks, two second-round picks and enough salary cap space to sign at least one impact free agent in addition to the bargin-hunting that Brad Holmes seems to pull off to propel this team forward.  

We already have won over pundits.  They are smart enough to know we are one of the youngest teams in the league and took some time to come together and develop.  And they know we had some significant injuries early on with guys like Jacobs, Jamo, Paschal, Chark etc injured.  Jim Rome said the Lions are better than over half of the teams in the playoffs. 

Nick Wright did a piece about the offseasons for teams by Tiers.  There was the purgatory offseason (Pitt, Washington, NE) that will not change much and dont have a ton of draft capital or cap space to get significantly better so will be a 7-9 win team again next year. Those with a sad offseason (GB, NO, Tenn, Carolina, Denver, Clev, AZ, LA Rams) who have to cut down salary, dont have picks, and will have QB/Coaching issues and changes, not a lot of change for next year to look forward to most likely. Exciting offseason (Chi, Houston, Colts, ATL, LV) bad teams but have top picks in the draft, attractive vacancies for coaches, and/or a lot of cap space. The remaining teams he did in two team tiers and the Lions and Jets were his trendy teams to make the conference championship games in 2023 since both are close and have picks and cap to fill holes. 

I have heard others talk about how exciting next year will be for the Lions so we are gaining respect.  Yes we still have to earn it and yes we had a rough start but we have a lot of momentum going into next year.  

[Superduperman]

We might have a replacement for Ben Johnson already on the staff if he leaves - tight ends coach and passing game coordinator Tanner Engstrand

https://www.detroitlions.com/video/engstrand-on-the-diversity-of-the-offense

He doesn't seem like a tremendous speaker here but honestly I've never even heard Ben Johnson speak once so I don't know how much that matters.

What I do know is that Johnson was the tight ends coach, as was Campbell himself with the Saints, it seems like the place where the organization might bring up young offensive coaches and develop them for future promotion.

[Just Want A Title]

1 hour ago, Superduperman said:

We might have a replacement for Ben Johnson already on the staff if he leaves - tight ends coach and passing game coordinator Tanner Engstrand

https://www.detroitlions.com/video/engstrand-on-the-diversity-of-the-offense

He doesn't seem like a tremendous speaker here but honestly I've never even heard Ben Johnson speak once so I don't know how much that matters.

What I do know is that Johnson was the tight ends coach, as was Campbell himself with the Saints, it seems like the place where the organization might bring up young offensive coaches and develop them for future promotion.

Personally, if you haven't seen Ben Johnson participate in things like this, he may not be looking for a HC gig right now.  He is getting interviews but they might be his way of understanding what teams are looking for in an HC and be more prepared in the future.

[teude]

What would you think, trading for Ramsay?

[Just Want A Title]

He is still a really good CB but but he has a kind of volatile personality.  He is also going into his 8th season.  He would solve a lot of problems for the next year or two though.  It might be a good situation to have him lock down the CB1 position while we develop CBs that we draft this year.  I was looking up his salary cap information.  The only way for the Rams to avoid incurring major dead cap charges would be to make a move after June 1st.  Brad Holmes seems committed to building through the draft so I am not sure he would be eager to give up a ton of draft capital.  It might work if a player was included from the Lions to lower the draft pick compensation but most of the Lions roster is so young that I am not sure who would have a lot of value in a trade.  

Edited January 14, 2023 by Just Want A Title
Forgot something

[Louis Friend]

5 hours ago, teude said:

What would you think, trading for Ramsay?

I haven't watched this video. I read somewhere that any team that trades for Ramsey only takes on $8 million of his salary this upcoming season. He's still only 28 years old and would be that vet presence in the secondary I've been asking for. Like we brought in for Slay/Diggs when they were here. Trade a pick for Ramsey, draft a CB, Add a run defending DT and Detroit's defense takes a major step forward. 

[Just Want A Title]

9 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

I haven't watched this video. I read somewhere that any team that trades for Ramsey only takes on $8 million of his salary this upcoming season. He's still only 28 years old and would be that vet presence in the secondary I've been asking for. Like we brought in for Slay/Diggs when they were here. Trade a pick for Ramsey, draft a CB, Add a run defending DT and Detroit's defense takes a major step forward. 

I could see the Lions making this move post-June 1 and including Romeo Okwara to push the draft compensation down a little lower.

[Superduperman]

With McVay coming back it seems very unlikely now that they'd part with Ramsey. Oh well, it was fun speculating 

[General Tso]

I was thinking about our needs and I'm wondering honestly how big of a player the Lions will be in FA. RG, DT, LB, CB. That's 4 positions we're looking at new starters. We have 5 draft picks. 

Are we even sure we need to make big FA splashes? I think Holmes might target 1 new FA and then focus on retaining who we have. I'm ok letting Evan Brown go but resigning Chark, Elliot, and Cominsky.

[Louis Friend]

11 minutes ago, General Tso said:

I was thinking about our needs and I'm wondering honestly how big of a player the Lions will be in FA. RG, DT, LB, CB. That's 4 positions we're looking at new starters. We have 5 draft picks. 

Are we even sure we need to make big FA splashes? I think Holmes might target 1 new FA and then focus on retaining who we have. I'm ok letting Evan Brown go but resigning Chark, Elliot, and Cominsky.

I don't believe the Lions view the LB a position of need like we do. I think our top needs are DT, RG, and CB. Lions will have 8 draft picks, 5 in top 80(?) And if they cut Vaitai, Brockers and Romeo, over $50 million in capspace. Definitely enough for one or two big-ish signings or trades while retaining some key guys. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Louis Friend

[Just Want A Title]

2 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

I don't believe the Lions view the LB a position of need like we do. I think our top needs are DT, RG, and CB. Lions will have 8 draft picks, 5 in top 80(?) And if they cut Vaitai, Brockers and Romeo, over $50 million in capspace. Definitely enough for one or two big-ish signings or trades while retaining some key guys. 

The NFL off-season is all about smoke screens.  Most of what we have heard from Brad Holmes is that he is going to continue to prioritize the draft while trying to make "value signings" in free agency.  That being said, our LBs can't cover TEs very well at all right now and weren't great against mobile QBs. Alex Anzalone had the best year of his career but it isn't something we should count on happening again.  Derrick Barnes is a solid rotational player.  Our other LBs are mainly special teams contributors.  

What I see happening with LBs:  The Lions sign a guy like EJ Speed who has improved each year in the league and is know quantity along with a LB in the late 2d or early 3rd round.