Andrew Berry draft review thread.

[dawgdish]

1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said:

I agree on the drafting part he has been average. Does well at the top of the draft--is bad in the middle of the draft. However, he has been great IMO in free agency/trades. Cooper for a 5th, getting Conklin when the RT market is a absolute premium, Dion Jones looked really good in the handful of games he played here, Sheldon Richardson was a fantastic move, Clowney when he cares has been awesome, ect.

I agree free agency/trades is where he's shined strongest. I'd hesitate to say he's been great in that area, though he has been good. While the Cooper trade was a masterstroke, there are some duds like the large contract we gave Austin Hooper when we could have focused on developing Njoku.

[DaWg_LB.]

17 hours ago, DawgX said:

He played well when utilized properly. He struggled when asked to play deep coverage often, but played well when allowed to play close to the LOS. I'm not saying extend Delpit, but he's someone I still have hope for if given a competent DC.

that INT vs the Commanders SHOW's and PROVES, he can be a single high safety and be a Center Fielder....his issues are eye dicipline and learning not to Jump Routs/fakes..and to take better angles, when dealing with NFL talent...things that can be taught....

[big poppa pump]

1 hour ago, DaWg_LB. said:

that INT vs the Commanders SHOW's and PROVES, he can be a single high safety and be a Center Fielder....his issues are eye dicipline and learning not to Jump Routs/fakes..and to take better angles, when dealing with NFL talent...things that can be taught....

I like Delpit more than most, but I don't think that center fielder is his strength.  I would like to see him covering TE's, and playing closer to the LOS, blitzing on occasion.  I definitely think he can be coached up, but I don't think playing single high safety is something I want to see again.

[brownie man]

Delphit don’t need to be playing centerfield

That’s not maximizing his talents

go get a true FS this offseson

[roger murdock]

It hasnt been great but not as objectively terrible as many GMs we have had.

 

We had like 8 or 9 FRP's in a row that were essentially complete zero's. Most of the picks so far have been average-ish for the  draft position. 

 

Like  Wils, Delpitt, JOK, Newsome, etc are all fine picks.  None are world beaters but none are complete zero's or whiffs. 

There's been some nice mid-rounders like Emerson,  Bryant, and DPJ that outperformed position. 

A few duds as expected like Phillips. 

 

On a scale of Ray Farmer to Ozzie Newsome he's about a Tom Heckert. 

 

The Watson trade will be his downfall. 

[MWil23]

14 hours ago, roger murdock said:

On a scale of Ray Farmer to Ozzie Newsome he's about a Tom Heckert.

This is a pretty fair comparison from a sheer drafting standpoint.

[MWil23]

In all honesty, I have more issues with Barry from a "use of draft picks" and/or signings and cap standpoint in some regards. The Watson trade was a major draft and financial gamble even without all of the IRL issues.

The Hooper signing was a bad one.

The JJ3 signing was a bad one (some of that may be scheme to be fair).

I think Njoku was overpaid, albeit he didn't suck this year. He had a bad drop that cost us a game and an incredible catch that won us a game, so that's a wash.

The Teller contract was solid.

Re-signing Conklin is tbd pending his health and past injury concerns, but if he's healthy, it's a homerun.

Ward getting re-signed was a good move IMO.

Philosophically, I hate what he does in neglecting the WR spots and Front 7 players. He clearly has a thing for DB's, which I get on a lot of levels, but I don't prefer some of those other guys we've "passed" on at meat and potatoes positions, or the fact that this organization is a decade behind understanding the importance of the WR position.

Edited January 11, 2023 by MWil23

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

24 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

In all honesty, I have more issues with Barry from a "use of draft picks" and/or signings and cap standpoint in some regards. The Watson trade was a major draft and financial gamble even without all of the IRL issues.

It’s a gamble I suppose, but less of one than really any other option at QB.  He’s a known entity on the field.  Folks can debate where they’d rank him, but before the off the field mess most, if not all, would have had him as a top 10 guy.  

Keeping Baker would have been a gamble after ‘21.  Didn’t look better this year.

Drafting a rookie would have been a game to varying degrees.  A big gamble to take a second tier guy who may or may not be available when we pick or making a huge gamble to trade similar assets for a complete unknown.

I feel like you can hate the player, hate his actions, hate him being on the team, etc., but from a football perspective move it’s a great trade. Whether it works out or not is tbh, but that’s on Watson and the coaches.
 

24 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

he Hooper signing was a bad one.

Oh yeah.

24 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

The JJ3 signing was a bad one (some of that may be scheme to be fair).

That’s TBD right now.  He’s another dude who’s shown he can play and play at a high level. I’d want to see him with another DC before I come to any conclusions.  

24 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I think Njoku was overpaid, albeit he didn't suck this year. He had a bad drop that cost us a game and an incredible catch that won us a game, so that's a wash.

I’d call it a “fine” contract. Maybe more than I’d like to pay him, but that’s the market it seems.

24 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

The Teller contract was solid.

yep.

24 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Re-signing Conklin is tbd pending his health and past injury concerns, but if he's healthy, it's a homerun.

If he’s healthy Conklin for 15 million in a couple seasons is gonna look amazing.

24 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Ward getting re-signed was a good move IMO.

absolutely, a no brainer.

24 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Philosophically, I hate what he does in neglecting the WR spots

To be fair, he inherited a team with like 35 million a year or whatever invested in Juice and OBJ.  Those guys were expected to produce.  He didn’t just sit on his hands though, he added a player in R3 to complement them.  The player sucks, but that’s technically a whiff more than neglect 😂.

He added two more dudes last year as well as brining in a legit #1.

He’s neglected it at the top of the draft, yes, but I’d argue he’s done so to fill other, more pressing needs.

24 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

and Front 7 players.
 

Idk.  He’s drafted 8 guys and 6 over the last two season along the front 7.  Not super high picks admittedly, but he’s added talent.  At some point coaches need to develop this talent.

I know we’ve talked about it before, but we can’t expect to have first or second rounders at every position.  At some point coaches and players need to develop.

I’ll also add that with all of these pick none of them were put in a position where they had to be “the man” as rookies.  They were rotational pieces at best.  

24 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

He clearly has a thing for DB's, which I get on a lot of levels, but I don't prefer some of those other guys we've "passed" on at meat and potatoes positions, or the fact that this organization is a decade behind understanding the importance of the WR position.

Don’t disagree, but it’s hard to make up for a decade of mismanagement in 2-3 years.

[MWil23]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It’s a gamble I suppose, but less of one than really any other option at QB.  He’s a known entity on the field.  Folks can debate where they’d rank him, but before the off the field mess most, if not all, would have had him as a top 10 guy.  

Keeping Baker would have been a gamble after ‘21.  Didn’t look better this year.

Drafting a rookie would have been a game to varying degrees.  A big gamble to take a second tier guy who may or may not be available when we pick or making a huge gamble to trade similar assets for a complete unknown.

I feel like you can hate the player, hate his actions, hate him being on the team, etc., but from a football perspective move it’s a great trade. Whether it works out or not is tbh, but that’s on Watson and the coaches.

For sure. I mean, it's more or less sending an "All In" message on every front. Contract, draft capital, everything. All of your eggs are officially in that basket. If he doesn't play at a Top 5 level, it's a disappointment. If he's not Top 10, that's a BAD trade and HORRIFIC contract.

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

That’s TBD right now.  He’s another dude who’s shown he can play and play at a high level. I’d want to see him with another DC before I come to any conclusions.

I'm not writing him off yet. I think it was a bad contract and deal given the 2 year body of work we've seen. Let's all hope that it's scheme.

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

If he’s healthy Conklin for 15 million in a couple seasons is gonna look amazing.

Agreed

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

To be fair, he inherited a team with like 35 million a year or whatever invested in Juice and OBJ.  Those guys were expected to produce.  He didn’t just sit on his hands though, he added a player in R3 to complement them.  The player sucks, but that’s technically a whiff more than neglect 😂.

I'd argue that most of us everyday Joe's knew the OBJ ship had sailed 5-6 games into 2020, and he went to the front office in the off-season after our playoff run asking for a trade. That would have been an awesome time to sell high(ish) and avoid the PR disaster that we had and the subsequent fallout in the locker room. That's on Berry to be honest.

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

He added two more dudes last year as well as brining in a legit #1.

He gets credit for Cooper for sure. I still wouldn't call him a legit #1. I think he's an "pretty good" #1 and a "great" #2. Even still, he did have a very solid year this year for us. He's not in that "elite" tier, but he's definitely in the "darn good" tier.

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

He’s neglected it at the top of the draft, yes, but I’d argue he’s done so to fill other, more pressing needs.

I guess I've thought the WR spot was as big of a need as ever for a LONG time now, but perhaps I'm alone in that.

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Idk.  He’s drafted 8 guys and 6 over the last two season along the front 7.  Not super high picks admittedly, but he’s added talent.  At some point coaches need to develop this talent.

I know we’ve talked about it before, but we can’t expect to have first or second rounders at every position.  At some point coaches and players need to develop.

I’ll also add that with all of these pick none of them were put in a position where they had to be “the man” as rookies.  They were rotational pieces at best.

When you compare who he's drafted high, I'd say that it shows what he values as important pieces compared to value. He thought we could go out with a bunch of JAG LB and JAG DT and compete. That clearly hasn't been the case, and IMO, not all of that is on scheme.

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Don’t disagree, but it’s hard to make up for a decade of mismanagement in 2-3 years.

Very true. I'd argue Sashi's cache and cap room with Dorsey set him up to succeed in a lot of ways though. I'd grade him as a C to C+ for average to above average, and if the Watson trade lands, he gets an A.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

55 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

For sure. I mean, it's more or less sending an "All In" message on every front. Contract, draft capital, everything. All of your eggs are officially in that basket. If he doesn't play at a Top 5 level, it's a disappointment. If he's not Top 10, that's a BAD trade and HORRIFIC contract.

I think Berry knows with Jimmy Truckstop as his boss he’s all in either way. He’s got 1-3 more years (at most) to do his thing or he’s gone.  
 

If I knew I had one shot to pick “my guy” and my job hinged on his success, I’d trade draft picks too for a proven guy.

I think anyone who believes this FO and coaching staff would be given 3 full seasons with the QB if their choice to draft and develop is crazy.

55 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I'm not writing him off yet. I think it was a bad contract and deal given the 2 year body of work we've seen. Let's all hope that it's scheme.

Agreed.

55 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I'd argue that most of us everyday Joe's knew the OBJ ship had sailed 5-6 games into 2020, and he went to the front office in the off-season after our playoff run asking for a trade. That would have been an awesome time to sell high(ish) and avoid the PR disaster that we had and the subsequent fallout in the locker room. That's on Berry to be honest.

iirc he was injured and couldn’t be traded until he passed a physical.  And like, Newsome and JOK were a nice combo in R1-2.  It’s hard enough to be accountable for the guys you do take let along everyone you don’t.

55 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

He gets credit for Cooper for sure. I still wouldn't call him a legit #1. I think he's an "pretty good" #1 and a "great" #2. Even still, he did have a very solid year this year for us. He's not in that "elite" tier, but he's definitely in the "darn good" tier.

By legit I just mean a guy who is a #1 caliber dude.  He’s not in that top tier, no, but he’s one of the 20-25 best guys in the league.

55 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I guess I've thought the WR spot was as big of a need as ever for a LONG time now, but perhaps I'm alone in that.

I think we’ve needed legit talent there forever, no argument.  
 

My biggest grip isn’t the investment, it’s the guys we took where we took them.  I get the idea in the Schwartz pick, but he’s never been good.  I really wanted Nico Collins who is more my cup of tea at WR from a physical standpoint, but they got jumped.

Bell is a fine player/prospect for a slot guy, but I don’t love taking such a limited athlete that high.  A try hard with good hands seems like a day 3 pick to me.  Or even UDFA.

Woods was an ok pick imo.  He’s at least got a decent frame and athleticism.

I guess I’d rather just have some more impressive physical specimens in the room.

55 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

When you compare who he's drafted high, I'd say that it shows what he values as important pieces compared to value. He thought we could go out with a bunch of JAG LB and JAG DT and compete. That clearly hasn't been the case, and IMO, not all of that is on scheme.

Agreed. But I do think scheme is a huge part of it. You yourself mention them being a full run fit short. I’m not gonna pretend I looked at run fits, but if his scheme provided similar disadvantages against the run as they did for our DL against the pass, I have a hard time faulting the players.

55 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Very true. I'd argue Sashi's cache and cap room with Dorsey set him up to succeed in a lot of ways though. I'd grade him as a C to C+ for average to above average, and if the Watson trade lands, he gets an A.

I think a C is fair.  The Watson deal will be the defining move of his tenure regardless of outcome, but next year we really need to start seeing some development and flashes from some of these picks entering years 2, 3 and 4.  Especially on the defensive side of the ball.

[DaWg_LB.]

On 1/10/2023 at 3:59 PM, big poppa pump said:

I like Delpit more than most, but I don't think that center fielder is his strength.  I would like to see him covering TE's, and playing closer to the LOS, blitzing on occasion.  I definitely think he can be coached up, but I don't think playing single high safety is something I want to see again.

I feel what you are saying here, I am a HUGE Delpit Fan....Maybe the biggest in here....the year we got him the 2nd round.....I thought we got a top 10 pick....after getting the comm's got sorted out Delpit started to approach a dominant safety.....I like moving his playmaking ability to a more central layer..especially since we dont have anyone there now.....71tkls 11PD's and 4 INT's, not bad stats.

 

This is crazy, the interface is not letting me type underneath this LOL. At LSU Delpit was a safety along the Honey Badger/Minka Fitzpatrick type of player...a DO IT ALL safety, he can cover deep, blitz, match up a TE flexed in the Slot.....I think he can play FS and still be used in blitz packages and as a Chess Piece. I think that Jim Schwartz is the Perfect coach for him, I feel he can be maximized if he's coached up properly. With his background and athletic ability a 6'2 215lb FS that runs 4.3.....playing deep is about learning it at the NFL level. He played it JUST fine in College...

On 1/10/2023 at 5:47 PM, brownie man said:

Delphit don’t need to be playing centerfield

That’s not maximizing his talents

go get a true FS this offseson

Edited January 23, 2023 by DaWg_LB.

[Kiwibrown]

@DaWg_LB.

 

If Delpit goes close to the line on 1st and running downs then I think he could be used center field. 

If doesn't get to hunt I doubt he would have the appetite to just sit back deep.

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

I want to see this whole defense in Gym Shorts’s scheme before I make any proclamations about Berry or his evaluations.  Woods did next to nothing to give guys favorable assignments, especially up front.

[NateDawg]

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I want to see this whole defense in Gym Shorts’s scheme before I make any proclamations about Berry or his evaluations.  Woods did next to nothing to give guys favorable assignments, especially up front.

Try voice typing like you are guarding the Berlin wall next time.

[DaWg_LB.]

On 1/23/2023 at 4:06 PM, Kiwibrown said:

@DaWg_LB.

 

If Delpit goes close to the line on 1st and running downs then I think he could be used center field. 

If doesn't get to hunt I doubt he would have the appetite to just sit back deep.

 

I think Scwartz has a chance to help him develop said appetite.